Timbo Slice

The issue for me has always been that they choose when to sell in a way that makes whatever athletic feat they do mean very little in the end. Vader's point is definitely a bit "Old man not a fan of the modern style" type, but the essence of what he's saying rings true, even if he didn't exactly say it the right way. I know people are going off crowd reaction as a reason as to why the style works, but we also have to remember that AJPW decided the headdrop stuff was getting over with the crowd and that took them down a path they couldn't come back from, really. That's great that it pops the crowd, but you're speeding things up to a point that nothing else matters unless it's over the top like that. There's a middle ground here, they just need to find it.

Jax/Bailey was terrific. I think it might have been better than the London match. Jax has a presence and is getting better. Her vs. Asuka has a chance to be special.

So my question is whether or not they're gonna have crossover with NXT backstage people, too. It would seem weird if this is set up to get NXT talent integrated into the main roster while also being NXT guys that NXT backstage stuff doesn't have a say. It's funny that there's RAW, then there's the SD!/NXT bridge along with the EVOLVE/NXT bridge. I do agree with the sentiment that this would give WWE the ability to run a couple Network Specials a month now, because this seems like a way to give the TV brass what they want along while really trying to make the Network jump outside of the original programming, which now seems like a lost cause by all accounts.

Right after SuperBrawl would probably be the best time because the DA had established themselves by then and won all the big belts other than the world title. It's a couple months, but good lord is it a gold mine for great TV stuff.

There are myriad problems with ROH's current business model, and they are now in a really troubling situation in that they're completely subservient to NJPW talent on their own shows and can only really push guys as clingers on to something that is beginning to run its course in the Bullet Club. There isn't a single ROH talent seen on the level of NJPW talent, and while people point to the Fish win over Ishii, Ishii never even defended the belt before that to help put the belt over. I think Delirious doesn't realize that NJPW is basically using them to test the waters of a possible US expansion (Grimmas brought the theory up to me and I totally agree), because it's obvious that crowds are there more to see NJPW talent than ROH talent, and that the over acts in the company are mainly over because of their Japan exposure (including Cheeseburger, who somehow has transcended any ROH booking into being perhaps the most over talent in the company). Plus, ROH is now entrenched with them and it's more symbiotic than ever, so going forward, with guys like Cole getting pushes basically to keep him from jumping to NXT, they're continuously booking themselves into a corner. They've had Kamaitachi, who's developed a rep and is respected even by fans who don't like lucha that much, and he's been a total nonfactor. Not to mention the refusal to push guys like Castle, Dijak and Cheeseburger while they're hot. There are booking cycles, and it's only been a year since their TV was absolutely on fire, but this feels like the beginning of quite a down cycle for ROH, especially with the Evolve/NXT relationship heating up and their ability to tell a coherent story in a way ROH just can't right now. They're isolating themselves in favor of a relationship with a company that looks down on them while they think they're on somewhat equal footing. That's not a good look for them.

Was I the only one who liked the Mexico/Japan 8-man from Dos Leyendas? I know Fujin/Raijin are newbies and such, but after the first fall, it's like they figured some things out and that third fall was really great.

I'm down for that. A lot of the issues brought up in the reaction threads really made me long for a place to actually have the type of discourse worthy of the topic.

Funk 2, Flair 4 for me. I remember Dylan talking about GAB 89 and I went back and revisited it because it had been awhile and it really lit me up. Then I saw it again when I was going through all the pre-Hogan NWA/WCW stuff on the Network and it still resonated with me, as did that entire feud. I was one of the guys who wanted to remind people who were tearing down Ric's case for #1 that the piling on got to a point where it was difficult for me to take criticism of a lot of people in this project seriously. The tearing down became easier to do than the defending. I ended up going with Lawler because the sheer scope of his career and how good he was for basically four decades was enough for me to take notice of his greatness, but there was no better peak than Flair's and no more varied career than Funk's. It's a boring choice so to speak, but there's a reason he was the consensus #1 guy coming into this. It's hard to knock off a guy like that.

Love how Maeda and Fujinami's match the next month inadvertently plays off the finish of this match. One of my favorite matches ever, need to re-watch it.

There are maybe three people on this list I would put above Rey for just how many great matches he had with that many wrestlers. The number of people he worked and had great matches with is downright staggering.

To me it's Hansen, but at the same time, it's more of a consortium of great stuff without hitting the highs the others did. It's a HUGE amount of good stuff, though, and one where choosing between him and Jumbo is easy. Now Misawa on the other hand...I actually think he's second. Kawada third, Jumbo fourth.

Didn't show enough fighting spirit.

With Kobashi over Kawada, The List truly being booked like Baba circa 1995. Misawa the one true ace. Lawler should have been Top 5. Flair was my #1 coming in and he dethroned him. Memphis haters couldn't keep him out of the Top 10, though, so at least we have that.

Lawler will be 10th. I figure with number o ballots being a big deal, Kobashi will reach Top 5. Flair will be #1. Bryan is the wild card here.

One thing I realize on the list is that the numbers always skewed towards number of ballots more than placement. Savage is really the first guy with both. Anderson ranked highly mainly by being on 94% of the ballots.

I'm such an unabashed Taue mark that him not being Top 25 saddens me. I still had him ranked over Akiyama because I enjoyed his NOAH run so much, and while his post peak isn't as long as Akiyama's, I think it's still comparable. There's an argument made that in every singles match he had in NOAH that it was that wrestler's best NOAH match, maybe outside of Misawa. Also sad there was never a Taue/Takayama match or a Taue/Suzuki match. There are definitely issues I have with the list (For example, so many workers getting discounted for not having as much new stuff since the 2006 list while BRET HART is gonna make the Top 25) but overall, I can't complain too much. Regal making the Top 25 is unbelievable.

Santo got jobbed. I had Casas over him too (by one spot), but him not being in the Top 25 is just bewildering to me. He barely made tape in the time since the 2006 poll yet when he did, it was still tremendous. I understand a lot of the guys Lucha fans found were new and exciting, but that's one hell of a pendulum swing. My own fault for getting into Lucha too late in the project to see for myself, but even if Santo's greatest hits are a few years older, I'm not sure that makes them less great.

Will try and post more reactions when I get home from Vegas and shake off the mental fog, but outside of the Styles placement (and eventual Michaels placement), I'm happy right now with what I've seen.

Styles that high really is the most egregious recency bias pick we have. It's like people took the last two-three years and extrapolated it over his entire career while also leaning on the "only decent thing about TNA" crutch. He's one of the best going right now, but man alive the recency bias with his selection bugs me. Expected Fujiwara higher as well. But Top 40 is Casey Kasem territory, so I'm cool with it.

Hokuto finishing below Andre is hilarious. Lesnar finishing above both of them is even more hilarious.

I'm down to see where Lesnar ranks simply because I made the Han comparison and still think it's apt.

I wouldn't go that far, but I do feel like Han worked towards those spots we've all come to be wowed by in spite of the match.

The Kohsaka match from 98 was pretty remarkable for Tamura, too, and the first match I saw outside the Han matches that sold me on him. He also had the Mishima and Ito matches from U-STYLE, with the Ito match perhaps being the best in the history of the promotion. I get the argument about those Han matches being better representations of the style, hence why people lean more on what Han did. I just don't see Han being able to have the matches that Tamura had with guys that were either on the fringe or wholly not shoot-style workers, and I've always liked that more about Tamura, no matter how smooth Han was in the ring.

They gave it away to an extent by hyping up the shows this weekend on this week's TV, but yeah, Finn coming up to join the guys is the right call. Although now you don't really have someone worthy to drop the belt to outside of Nak, who doesn't need the belt and will never probably never need it, even though we all know that match is coming.

Honest question: Do any of those who voted Han higher or didn't vote for Tamura think Han had a better non-Tamura match than Tamura had with Vader?