Loss
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Everything posted by Loss
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I love that Hogan got suspended "for the rest of the year" on the December 18 Nitro, which is why he wasn't on this show. He was given the holidays off as punishment for something.
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I am and most of that negativity goes downstream to Gordy. I find them to be a pretty boring tag team, but WCW is the exception to that. I liked their matches with the Steiners and Windham/Rhodes where they dropped the titles quite a bit.
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I think it's a case where they failed for various reasons - some related to their performance and some not - but they were pursuing a noble cause. It's just something unique about his career that I thought was worth discussing.
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Parv, I think you should clarify that you see an act like the Rock & Roll Express, as one example, as top guys and not career midcarders. I could see some people reading that and thinking only world champions should be considered at that level, and I don't think that's what you are saying at all.
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From Dave's Today In Wrestling History: -
Matt, you might like Luger-Martel from RAW in '94. I remember some people really enjoying that one.
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Agreed. Their matches took some patience, it was a different pace from what was done in the US at the time. Question for everyone: does being put in a position to re-educate the fanbase on a new working style impress you enough to consider it when ranking wrestlers? Doc and Gordy weren't successful in getting matwork more over in WCW, but I would blame WCW's revolving door leadership for that more than Doc and Gordy's merits or flaws as workers. Still, I think it's pretty cool that two American wrestlers were training their audience that certain things they never thought mattered actually did matter, for better or for worse. It does sort of feel like almost everyone in the U.S. has been working inside the box more than not since that time. As one example, if Daniel Bryan did more matwork in WWE, it may not get matwork over to the masses, but I'd probably still credit him for trying to push the in-ring style somewhere new if he even tried. That kind of trailblazing is not something many wrestlers can claim in their favor, at least in a positive way.
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There are some people, I believe Parv and Loss for example, who have said that where a guy is placed on a card does matter to them. They, or if I'm mistaken the people who did say this, believe that being a great worker isn't enough. It matters where you are a great worker and the amount of importance you have to the card and the industry. Can't say I agree, but that viewpoint is present. Not so much when ranking wrestlers, but definitely when ranking matches. An undercard opener can absolutely be better than a main event on a major show, but a great world title match is something I think is almost always better than a great show opener. I do think main events have obvious working advantages that undercard matches don't, such as time allotted, wrestlers involved who are generally more protected in booking and right of first refusal on when particular spots, props, finishes or shortcuts will be used on a card. So it makes sense that the awesome main events usually trump the awesome undercard matches. The very best undercard matches are the ones where those involved can create that same atmosphere where the stakes are high and winning and losing *matters*, which is more difficult to accomplish with no championship on the line. So I wouldn't quite call that an accurate depiction of my opinion; it's more nuanced than that. (Insert jokes about me and my nuanced opinions here, Dylan, Dave and Will.) While I do think a great main event is better than a great undercard match more often than not, I also think a curtain jerker who steals the show has accomplished something more difficult than a headliner doing the same. So the matches are often better, but I am not sure the workers are. Sorry for the aside, I don't want to take away from the Rude discussion. I just wanted to be more clear on where I stand on this.
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[1993-03-20-AJW-Last Night's Explosion] Manami Toyota vs Takako Inoue
Loss replied to PeteF3's topic in March 1993
Oh, I thought that was a straitjacket suplex. What is the difference? -
[1993-03-20-AJW-Last Night's Explosion] Manami Toyota vs Takako Inoue
Loss replied to PeteF3's topic in March 1993
What is JOCS? I keep seeing that abbreviation and I don't know what it means. -
[1993-01-23-WCW-Saturday Night] Barry Windham vs 2 Cold Scorpio
Loss replied to Loss's topic in January 1993
Muta had the NWA title and they were building Windham up so he could do a big feud with Flair. Watts felt like no one had ever tried going all the way with him and they were going to do it. But first, they needed to get the NWA title off of Muta. I'm pretty sure the Superbrawl angle with Flair was exactly as Watts booked it even though he was out of the picture by then. -
What matches do you think look like they are potentially amazing that we only have clipped, be it JIP or in highlight form? Note that this is a different question than asking about holy grails. What are the big matches that come to mind that are not available in full that you wish were? Let's point to specific ones if we can instead of "just about anything from Memphis" and that type of thing.
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I remember reading recently that Vince has yet to see the Performance Center in person, if that tells you how much of a shit he gives about NXT.
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I am willing to give this another shot with a fresh set of eyes. I will do that very soon.
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Luger had an interview with Funk on the Clash, but he didn't really have anything to talk about.
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They probably wanted the biggest audience possible to see the turn. More people would be watching the Clash than the weekend shows.
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Buh-bye, EvenStevenBooking. Now, current WWE.
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[1993-08-21-AJW-Grand Prix] Manami Toyota vs Akira Hokuto
Loss replied to Loss's topic in August 1993
I have become a bigger fan of Toyota with time and think I was being unreasonably critical of her earlier on in my watching. I think you'll see a slow move away from that as more years have been watched. The Toyota matches I've revisited thus far from my early watching I have very much enjoyed. -
Why did Little Johnny disappear? Where did he go? For that matter, where did he come from in the first place? And why did announcers not ask these questions?
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I just rewatched this. To this point, this is the match I think I got the most "wrong" (aside from Thunderqueen, but that's another story) the first time around. I still think I like it more than a lot of you, but it works more as a glimpse at what these two might be able to do with some seasoning than it does as a great match. Neither Toyota nor Hotta are really complete workers at this point, and the skeleton of a great match is there in the sense that they are doing a lot of the right things. But the execution of the layout doesn't live up to the layout itself. I respect what they were going for but neither had a 20+ epic in them just yet, and their inexperience shows.
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I'm starting to doubt that very much, although it's possible.
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CM Punk on Colt Cabana's Art of Wrestling
Loss replied to goodhelmet's topic in Publications and Podcasts
Wow a choice between shit on a bun and diarrhea on a bun. I used to like Subway. Then I lived in New Jersey for five years. -
I want him to convert and de-glam Cameron, and I want there to be a Total Divas storyline about her not taking pride in her appearance anymore at the same time.
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CMLL would be the ideal one. All Japan would be awesome too. I don't even know who owns the libraries of the dead Joshi feds at this point. Once again, had the old promoters been able to see the future, maybe they never would have sold their libraries to Vince. They could have pulled their resources to run their own Network if they wanted.
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It looks like NJPW World is turning Dave into one of us. I love it! Check out his Twitter if you don't know what I mean.