jdw

This is just fucking epic.

That list is a riot.

Hope all is well with Rob.

Source: Wrestling Observer. Maybe we should revisit the "Joe's a looooooooser" concept.

From prowrestlinghistory.com June 9, 1995 in Tokyo, Japan All Japan Budokan Hall drawing 16,300 ($1,000,000) 1. Masao & Mighty Inoue beat Maunukea Mossman & Mitsuo Momota (8:56) when Masao pinned ???. 2. Satoru Asako pinned Mike Anthony (6:58). 3. Kentaro Shiga, Tsuyoshi Kikuchi, & Yoshinori Ogawa beat Tamon Honda, Takao Omori, & Jun Akiyama (10:26) when Kikuchi pinned Omori. 3. Johnny Ace & The Patriot beat Doug Furnas & Bobby Duncum, Jr. (9:59) when Ace pinned Furnas. 4. Abdullah the Butcher, Giant Baba, & Rusher Kimura beat Ryukaku Izumida, Haruka Eigan, & Masa Fuchi (13:43) when Abdullah pinned Fuchi. 5. PWF Junior Heavyweight Champ Dan Kroffat pinned Rob Van Dam (17:10). 6. Stan Hansen pinned Giant Kimala II (5:09). 7. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue beat Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi (42:37) to win the All Japan World Tag Title when Kawada pinned Misawa. Basically a shitty card other than the main event being off the charts and the Jr title match being quite a bit above expectations. I don't remember anything else of RVD's run in All Japan that was terribly interesting. Thought he always looked pretty weak link, and not in the Akiyama to Misawa fashion, but in the Neidhart to Bret fashion: the one who stood out as not being terribly good.

I love that Gabe thing.

He banned me from the ROH message board for posting that bringing in Misawa was a horrible idea, because of how much he'd broken down and degenerated as a worker. And I also pointed out that $100 ticket prices were proof that Misawa was coming over more for the payday than he was any great desire to wrestle for ROH. Also, in 2004 when he announced the Joe vs. Jay Briscoe cage match, a lot of fans where pissed of about it and said as much on the ROH board, and he commented something along the lines of "Don't judge it until you've seen it. Yeah... I had a memory of someone (or several someones) here having gotten the Gabe Treatment for not properly loving ROH.

He lost on the next two PPVs. The winning streak didn't begin until Survivors 2011 when he won the title.

These were the two Hogan-Flair matches at MSG. Neither were Superstars tapings - simply back in the day when pretty much every MSG was taped for airing on the MSG Network (and selected matches airing on Prime Time). WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - November 30, 1991 (15,000) Televised on the MSG Network - featured Vince McMahon, Bobby Heenan, & Lord Alfred Hayes on commentary: Prime Time Wrestling - 12/30/91: Tito Santana pinned Kato with the flying forearm at 10:04 Kerry Von Erich defeated the Berzerker via count-out Prime Time Wrestling - 12/23/91: Jim Duggan pinned the Barbarian with the running clothesline at 7:51 Prime Time Wrestling - 1/6/92: Virgil pinned Skinner with a sunset flip at 6:07 Hulk Hogan defeated Ric Flair (w/ Mr. Pefect) via reverse decision at 9:25; Flair had originally won the match via pinfall after hitting Hogan with a pair of brass knuckles, handed to him by Perfect (Greatest Wrestling Stars of the 90s) IRS pinned the Big Bossman after the Mountie came ringside WWF IC Champion Bret Hart pinned the Mountie with an elbow off the middle turnbuckle; prior to the bout, the Big Bossman appeared and took the challenger's shock stick backstage Prime Time Wrestling - 1/6/92: The Nasty Boys defeated Shawn Michaels & Marty Jannetty when Saggs pinned Jannetty with a small package at 16:20 which was originally reversed by Knobbs, and then Jannetty reversed the move himself before Michaels mistakingly reversed the move again, allowing Saggs the pin WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - December 29, 1991 (11,000) Televised on the MSG Network 12/31/91 - featured Gorilla Monsoon & Bobby Heenan on commentary; included an in-ring promo by Col. Mustafa & Gen. Adnan in which they insulted Sgt. Slaughter: Prime Time Wrestling - 2/3/92: Davey Boy Smith pinned the Berzerker with a small package at 5:05 Prime Time Wrestling - 2/3/92: Sgt. Slaughter defeated Gen. Adnan & Col. Mustafa in a handicap flag match at 3:27 by pinning Mustafa with a clothesline; after the bout, Slaughter led the crowd in saying the Pledge of Alliegence Prime Time Wrestling - 1/20/92: Hercules pinned Greg Valentine by lifting his shoulder out of a back suplex into a bridge at 7:44 Prime Time Wrestling - 1/27/92: The Nasty Boys defeated the Bushwhackers when Knobbs pinned Butch at around 9:45 with a clothesline; after the bout, the Nastys continued to assault their opponents until Sgt. Slaughter made the save Prime Time Wrestling - 1/27/92: Skinner pinned Jim Powers with the reverse DDT at 6:51 Prime Time Wrestling - 1/20/92: Chris Walker pinned the Brooklyn Brawler with a flying bodypress at 4:02 Virgil defeated Repo Man via disqualification at 9:35 when Repo began choking Virgil with his rope Prime Time Wrestling - 1/20/92: WWF IC Champion Bret Hart fought Ted Dibiase (w/ Sensational Sherri) to a 20-minute time-limit draw at 19:06 as Hart chased Sherri around ringside and into the ring; late in the bout, as Dibiase had Hart in the Million $ Dream, Sherri ran over and rang the time keeper's bell which resulted in the match pausing until referee Earl Hebner ordered the match to continue; after the bout, Dibiase attempted to attack Hart with the title belt but was clotheslined to the floor Hulk Hogan defeated Ric Flair (w/ Mr. Perfect) via count-out at 10:09 after ramming Flair's head into the ringpost on the floor; after the match, Flair jumped Hogan from behind but Hogan fought him off and sent him to the floor (Hulk Hogan: The Unreleased Archives)

So Gabe never argued with any fans about the direction of his company, or people who complained about ROH and were checking out?

There was Man Mountain Dean, so Iron Mountain would be a good nickname for someone with a weight lifting background: "Iron Mountain" Mark Henry

I suspect it's owned by these guys: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Mountain_Incorporated Which means you're not getting in. John

So about that RoH iPPV...

Or that people didn't find it a terribly compelling post. :/

I have some doubts on just how much a top of the indy pay scale guy nets relative to what Joe nets in TNA. If it was a shitload, Joe would have left TNA and gone back to the indies making more money than Ki. Instead, Joe has stayed with TNA. Money in Japan isn't what it once was. Plus, Ki isn't a heavyweight top of the card guy there. Also doubt he worked / works as many dates there as say Hansen did in AJPW in 1996 (i.e. every card on all 8 series).

I really believe Randy would not have taken him under his wing like Ric did. I don't think Ric really "took Sting under his wing" and instead just worked with him... a helluva a lot. Which given how the WWF in that era stretched feuds out even longer (since they worked so many cities), Sting and Savage would have worked together a ton of times. Then Sting would have feuded with the Million Dollar Man, Mr Perfect, Rick Rude... Sting would have been fine.

Everyone who has signed a developmental deal is a fair comp: that's all the WWE has been offering guys. Even terrific indy workers like Hero get tossed into development where they could wash out, or run a foul of a Power, before even getting a seat at the Big Boy Table. We're not talking about anyone who got a Randy Savage push. Even Brock didn't get that way back in 2002. He went to OVW for a stretch. Of course they invested more into Brock in signing him than they would have Joe, so Brock's not a comp either. Speaking of Low Ki, who do you think made more money over the past 8 years: Joe or Ki?

Just to be clear: I don't think Joe has made 100% the wisest choices in his career. But in a total shit stye of a business, he actually has gotten paid quite well over the past 8 years, which a hell of a lot of folks chasing their dream haven't. I've watched Generico up close do stuff that is about as stupid as Joe's dumb stuff, and for likely peanuts compared to what Joe has made. Could Generico do better from here on out? Maybe. But he's got 8 years of money making to make up, and just as many years of killing his body. :/

So based on the people other than Tom, it sounds like 100% of the people (with the exception of Harris) who the WWE has signed to a developmental deal from 2005 to the present have all made more money than Joe has since then. Those that didn't become stars like Punk and Daniels all either still made a lot of money in the WWE, or went to TNA or the indy circuit and made over the course of those 8 years more money than Joe. Does anyone have a list of every last person who has signed a developmental deal?

So everyone who bombed out of the WWE quickly ended up in TNA making big bucks? We're not talking about someone like the Hardyz or Christian who had been pushed on WWE tv for ages that TNA marks out for. What if Joe went to development, farted around there for 2 years making less than he did in TNA, got a modest push for a year but Vince & Creative decided he was nothing special and ran him. He's suddenly end up in TNA making more than he did after 3 years of a push in TNA... and also enough to make up for three years of making less in the WWE than he would have in TNA? Could Joe have done better by waiting in ROH until the WWE finally called? Perhaps. Could he have done worse? Sure, he would have ended up like Nigel. He got a good deal in TNA. Several of them. Can't blame him for it. Especially since at the time, it wasn't like anyone could point to people like Bix did in the initial post.

I'm guessing Joe has made reasonable good money for the past 8 years since he signed his TNA contract. We can't be sure he would have made that money in the WWE for he past 8 years, or even in a WWE + Post WWE career over those 8 years. I can't knock someone in this shitty business getting paid for 8 years. Bird in the hand.

Haven't watched since college, which finished way back in 1988. I am even further out of date.

Also the autopsy, which wasn't publicly available until the new piece. It's not just that Snuka contradicts himself, but he contradicts the autopsy with both versions of his story.

Are you working me, Mike?

Flair just got the belt back from Dusty. They weren't bouncing he NWA title around every few months at that point. If they did Flair-Maggy at Starcade '86, then Flair would have kept the belt in a screwjob... like he did at Starcade 1984, 1985 and 1986 (and 1988 to a degree).