Childs

Togo vs. Hero was everything I wanted from Togo v. Hero, which is saying quite a lot. Total war between two of the best ever. They basically worked it as equals, despite the size difference. But that was fine, because Togo's offense still looks so fucking crisp.

And yet some folks clearly saw the whole match? I don't get it. EDIT: I see on Twitter they say they'll post the full main event as a standalone.

There's a note on the Evolve 74 replay claiming Togo-Hero cuts out midway through because of an unplugged cable in the venue. What the fuck? Was that an issue with the live broadcast? If it wasn't, why would it be with the replay?

I loved that match when I watched it for the Ditch project. Made me wish we'd gotten a long run of KENTA-Shibata tags. Would have vastly preferred that to epic main eventer KENTA.

This has been a quality wrestling program. The bigger the show the worse it is in current WWE.

One other semi-bright note, Fujiwara actually did okay. Not well enough to suggest he'll ever be elected but well enough to indicate how stupid it was that he wasn't on the ballot.

Agreed, I'm really not a fan. He spends so much time using his "villain" persona to beg for cheers. The fact he gets said cheers makes me hate both him and the crowd, though not in a way that motivates me to watch more. A lot of his offense is thigh-slappy junk, and yes, the finger spot in every match further kills any suspension of disbelief. He brings together a lot of what I dislike about current indie wrestling in one neat package. I guess the positives would be that he does create energy in the crowd, and he's not so bad that he's beyond being carried by Chris Hero.

As good a definition as any!

It's not something that matters a lot to me one way or another. If promoters want to use the term and fans respond to it, that's fine. But it doesn't connote anything very specific about a promotion's style, at least not to me. I can look at the Progress roster and have a pretty good idea what I'll get from their shows. But them throwing the descriptor "Strong Style" onto their tournament doesn't distinguish the product from other indie tourneys featuring a lot of the same wrestlers. And that's not a knock on the Progress shows, which I enjoyed overall.

I basically agree with this. It carried the most meaning when it was used to contrast the New Japan style from the All Japan style at a time when those really were different things. But that's been lost, even in New Japan. So it isn't a term that means a lot to me at this point.

Indie promoters have been using it for awhile. Ian ran a few "Revolution Strong Style" tourneys in IWA-MS as I recall, and Gabe's announcers have tossed it around at various points. I do think it's evolved from an NJ-specific term to a more generic (meaningless?) term for hard-hitting, Japanese-influenced wrestling.

Surely we can criticize Dave without slandering him, right? Because that's what it is when you attack his professional credibility without any hint of specific evidence: slander. I've said this before and I'll say it again--I am a veteran journalist, and I absolutely respect Dave as a fellow journalist, even though I'm not a fan of a lot of his stylistic choices.

Dave gave the same star rating (4 1/2) to the Survivior Series men's 5-on-5 as he did to the NXT tag match. I know it's beyond redundant to carp about him as a match critic, but that's just staggering.

Just had the same thought. It's been "imminent" for about six months now.

Struck me as almost the opposite. People largely shat on the undercard and then many seemed to dig the main event. And I say that as someone who thought most of the show was crap.

Dave made it sound like it might be awhile because of his mother's medical needs.

Here's a tribute his boss wrote about him: http://www.mncorn.org/2016/11/21/gone-too-soon/

Absolutely, I seem to be in the minority on this one.

and yet people went nuts when Mike Tyson did that shit You mean quick knockouts? That's a bad comparison, because people inherently understand that a real sporting event doesn't have a controlled ending. And in fact, fans wanted to see Tyson destroy his opponents in short order. That was his brand. If you're suggesting that's what we generally look for from wrestling main events, that's nonsense. That's what we look for in Goldberg matches though. Not really from Goldberg main events on big shows though.

and yet people went nuts when Mike Tyson did that shit You mean quick knockouts? That's a bad comparison, because people inherently understand that a real sporting event doesn't have a controlled ending. And in fact, fans wanted to see Tyson destroy his opponents in short order. That was his brand. If you're suggesting that's what we generally look for from wrestling main events, that's nonsense.

Agreed, but concerts are different. I think the thing forgotten, and why a lot of people were happy is that this match was a Goldberg match. Goldberg squashing Brock was him doing Born in the USA. If Goldberg and Brock did a 20 minute suplex heavy match, that would be more like a concert where Bruce played Backstreet Boys songs. Yeah, I guess part of it is that I was never a Goldberg mark, though I always liked him fine. Totally agree that they had no business doing a 20-minute epic. What I thought they might do after he hit the first two spears was their version of Hulk-Andre, and I would have enjoyed that more.

Say I paid $150 for a Springsteen ticket and Bruce came out, played "Born to Run," then ordered the E Street Band to destroy its instruments and walk off stage. Would that create a "moment?" I suppose. Would it prompt some discussion of his motivations? Yeah. Would it create any real sense of satisfaction? No, and WWE falls awfully short on delivering real satisfaction these days. That's how I look at it. Obviously, based on this thread, others see it very differently. And that's fine.

More idiotic than a really simple story (Lesnar totally underestimating Goldberg and paying for it) executed to perfection completely going over your head? You're almost willfully ignoring the broader context of a company that continues to undermine itself by treating the Monday Night Wars as the specialest time in the history of specialness. Not to mention they booked what was basically a one-match show and then didn't deliver the match. If it worked for you, great. To me, it felt like another example of this company treating its customers with utter contempt.

Bless your positive outlook. I would have been furious if I'd bought a ticket for that show.

Wow, there was really nothing more to that. I know it's cute to laugh at it but that was a dogshit ending to a dogshit show.