Herodes

That's true, although I would never expect any sort of social commentray or exploration of real issues from wrestling. It's unashamedly low-brow and honestly that's part of the reason I like it. If I want my cultural fix I'd look to literature or film, but I prefer my wrestling to be stupid and on the whole will only ever really appeal to the lowest common denominator. However purely from the bottom-line financial perspective, I'd think attracting a large demographic like the gay market which is perfect for wrestling would be a wise move. Same goes for the hispanic market which I think they've lost in recent years.

I don't think WWE would have to change anything in their presentation to accomodate gay viewers but just target the gay media more, have features in gay magazines and TV shows that could target that audience without necessarily alienating their usual fanbase. Basically be more 'gay friendly' since as you say, these are weekly TV shows that have muscled guys in underwear rolling around anyway. But yeah there is that homophobia there which means I don't think we're ever going to see the day when there is a top babyface or a badass heel who also happens to be openly gay but doesn't skip around the ring or wear makeup or do any of the usual gay wrestling schtick. I thought Dragon Gate attracted a large gay audience in Japan and AAA in Mexico has (or had) various strippers and the transvestites. ROH recently was featured in the Village Voice magazine but I think they tried to shy away from it, which seems silly for an indy promotion that has such a finite, limited niche fanbase.

If anything, wrestling has missed a massive opportunity by not actively seeking out the wider gay viewership which they are in a position to do. I know it sounds cliche but WWE should explicitly target the gay dollar when they have the likes of Cena, Orton, Batista muscleboys and twinks like Evan Bourne, The Miz, Cody Rhodes etc. I think they'd be very succesful if they did a full magazine/TV blitz aimed at the gay demographic. The Orton/Cena I Quit match with a helpless Cena hanging from the ring post in handcuffs while Orton beat him with a kendo stick was basically dungeon fetish stuff. You don't think Gabe could capture a far larger vieweship by marketing Dragon Gate USA to a gay audience rather than the tiny niche of workrate smarks? There's a reason why there are so many Jim Powers/Warlord/Scott Putski custom comps with fruity descroptions on Ebay... PS I am straight etc etc but it's clear to me WWE has failed to tap into a huge revenue stream by not courting the gay demographic more explicitly, something certain japanese and Mexican promotions have been far more successful at.

As a wrestler, compared to what he was Flair looks pretty bad with the balding hair and saggy body, but he looks fine by normal 60 year old guy standards. Not that I'd particularly care to watch these two now but they've got enough charisma, schtick and willingness to bleed which alone makes them more entertaining than anything I'd want to see from TNA currently.

From what I've read and heard about Andre, he was a billigerent alcoholic who was miserable from being in constant crippling pain, knowing he would die young, and treated like a freak by promoters and fans. So it's perfectly understable for Dave to say he wasn't the most popular guy.

Fredo Corleone: I'm your older brother, Mike, and I was stepped over! Michael Corleone: That's the way Pop wanted it. Fredo Corleone: It ain't the way I wanted it! I can handle things! I'm smart! Not like everybody says... like dumb... I'm smart and I want respect!

The archetypal weak mafia son, heir apparent to the empire, wanting to prove himself to his father yet falling short of expectations. Unable to be worthy in his father's eyes he seeks to win the respect of the wrestlers, yet they never see him as anything but management and refuse to accept him into their fraternity despite his attention-seeking stunts. Cuckolded by his sister and brother-in-law backstage as they inherit the keys to the kingdom. Once Stephanie had shown her father that she was the son and heir that her brother never could be, and no longer afforded to the protection of his mother once she left to pursue political ambitions, the mommy's boy had no other choice but to leave and join Linda's campaign.

I also spotted Masa Chono (singing in the background around the 1 min mark), Squire David Taylor and I think Salvatore Bellomo in the Roman centurion outfit. Not sure who the 'rapper' is though?

There was a period in 1995 (I think - around the time of the Vader Road Kill tour) when WCW sent some very lower card talent like Scott Studd and The Gambler to the USWA and I am sure there was a Lawler v Gambler match (or tag match at least) at some point so that would count. I know it's a massive stretch calling it WWF v WCW but technically it might be true. On an unrelated note how many guys can you name who are in this video:

You said that the matchlist was such that you "could never rate the set" so it would be interesting to know what inclusions and exclusions could lead to such a dramatic decision. Personally the set looks great to me and I can't wait to get it.

While he has his faults, Meltzer is the only real chronicler of wrestling history and the wrestling business, and his knowledge and memory of wrestling is almost scary. He is alone in his field mainly because I don't think anyone else could ever be so dedicated and prolific in the amount he writes on a weekly basis for the Observer and Yahoo, the amount of stuff he must watch, his radio shows and the shows he attends, in addition to all the time he must spend researching news and history and speaking to contacts. Has he ever taken a (non wrestling) holiday? He has set such a ridiculously high standard of dedication which I don't think anyone can match, or would want to match at the expense of having a life outside of the business.

If a low-level, relatively unsucessful MMA fighter changed career and became a succesful pro wrestler, should he be inducted into the MMA HOF? If Sakuraba has not wrestled in UWFi and had gone straight into PRIDE should he be in the Observer HOF? If so, shouldn't Fedor and Couture also be in? Or is it the fact that he had an unsuccessful pro wrestling career prior to MMA that makes him an exception?

The Sakuraba argument comes down to the fact that many wrestlers (especially older wrestlers) and wrestling fans are ultimately embarassed by being associated with something as inherrently silly as pro wrestling, so associating their fake sport with MMA is their way of adding some credibility to the nonsense. By latching on to MMA and finding tenuous links to pro wrestling, it makes them feel better about devoting their time or career to something that is the subject of so much ridicule. Hence Angle and Sakuraba in the HOF and Brock too eventually. It's stupid ofcourse since it would be like a medicore pro wrestler going into boxing and winning the title and then using that as an argument to put him into the Observer HOF. I suspect that the people who voted for Sakuraba know this but they are desperate for any credibility that comes from a loose association with MMA by claiming he is 'one of their own'.

Very interesting article Bix. As a sidenote how does the 'merger' between WCCW and Savoldi's ICW which was renamed IWCCW tie into all this? I am sure Kevin Von Erich appeared on their TV once and they used the old World Class theme music and logo but I don't think they ever ran Texas? In fact they just seemed to air repeats of the same Tony Atlas vs Vic Steamboat match all the time...

So what is the case against Cien Caras? The numbers he drew speak for themselves, he has longevity (set Arena Mexico record in 1990, Mexico record in 1993, was on top or just underneath from the 80s until 2005 when he still drew huge against Perros del Mal), top heel during first EMLL TV boom in 1990 and AAA boom in 1993, drew big in the US when AAA ran there too (outdrawing WWF and WCW at the time)...has he ever been on the ballot, has Dave ever talked about him not being in?

No way Rocco or any other British wrestler should be in the HOF before Big Daddy. If you're not going to recognise the iconic stars who transcended the sport in their country and were legitamately household names, then why even have a HOF. Same goes for Carlos Colon to a lesser extent. And I just noticed this but I can't believe Cien Caras isn't in the HOF - one of the top headliners and biggest draws in Mexico for a long time and legitamtely has drawing attendance records in Arena Mexico (1990 vs Rayo) and the largest ever wrestling crowd in Mexico (first Triplemania vs Konnan) even drawing sellouts as recently as 2005 in Arena Mexico. The top heel during the first EMLL TV boom in the early 90s and the AAA boom in the mid 90s. Talking about Rude/Rocco is pointless when some of the guys already mentioned aren't in.

I bought the 17 Disc Lynch Battlarts set a few years ago, and although he wasn't there that long, Sano's work really stood out as incredible in his run there in 99/00. The great thing is that he wasn't working 'shoot style' as such (not that BatBat was ever truly 'shoot style') but what can only be described as 1970s/early 80s US studio wrestling style. The kind of style you would often see on Georgia or Florida TV in the early 80s for example. Really tight matwork and 'carny' holds but also working within the framework of the Battlarts style, without the stiff strikes. It was another dimension to an interesting and varied career, and even a charming ode to a wrestling of a bygone studio wrestling era. The kind of matches which allowed Gordon Solie to riff about the various holds and the pressure points and amateur wrestling techniques. Very cool, much like Sano himself and the path that his career took.

Dustin Rhodes has been great going as far back as 1992, except back then he was the victim of smark backlash (cries of being Dusty's kid) and then he was Goldust so a lot of people dismissed him based on the (then) ridiculous gimmick. That is why it was good to re-examine him and bring him to prominence as a forgotten great worker once we were removed from the days when people would moan about who he beat and how he was being pushed, or the 'outrage' of his gay gimmick. Now we can just look at his work and his matches and rightly proclaim how good he was without there being an issue of how 'wrong' it was that he was pushed based on nepotism. Lawler has always been great. Calling something 'trendy' implies that people would rather stick with tired smark opinions from a decade ago rather than going back and evaluating wrestlers and uncovering wrestlers who didn't get that level of praise previously but are genuinely great. Right now we have more footage and accessability to footage - old and new - than we have ever had in the past so obviously formerly unheralalded wrestlers will come to the forefront. Take lucha as an example; in the past people assumed that the only lucha out there was AAA from 93-95 and the masks vs hair match was the concensus greatest lucha match ever. Now more people are discovering the incredible EMLL footage from the 80s and early/mid 90s which was forgotten (or never even looked at) so we are seeing how good the likes of Dandy, Casas, Satanico, Pirata Morgan, Sangra Chicana, Brazos, Emilio Charles etc really were. Even now though most net fans may have seen some of the more prominent matches from that era like Chicana vs MS-1 or Dandy vs Casas, but still they haven't uncovered all the great matches that were taking place on a weekly basis in EMLL during that era. Maybe (hopefully) that will happen in the next few years and fans will be exposed to that stuff and so people will re-examine these new finds and compare them to the current concensus best wrestlers and change their opinions - that's the way things work, not just in wrestling. To me it's not 'trendy' it's one of the best things about being a fan nowadays especially since I'm not interested in current wrestling. Rather than being stuck in the same old mindset it's great to go back and rediscover wrestlers that no one talked about before. I used to think of Fujiwara as that permanently old guy who used to show up in some undercard matches and never gave him a second thought, now I can look forward to looking at him with new eyes. Years ago I used to think Sabu, Manami Toyota and the big All Japan (men and women) matches were the greatest thing ever because that was the concensus, now I don't care for them but I am more comfortable in liking what I do like even if it's not the majority opinion. That's a good thing. 10 years ago wrestling tastes were a lot less democratised than they are now.

I think Negro Casas is the greatest wrestler of all time - not just in Mexico, but anywhere. Santo is close but Casas is another level to just about anyone in perfectly playing his role whatver situation he is in and such a captivating performer. Whether rudo or technico, trios schtick or trios brawl, title matches, hair/mask matches, feuding with Santo, Dandy, or even Tarzan Boy; he is just the perfect pro wrestler. Such a shame that there is so little footage available of him pre-92 and his arrival in EMLL, since he'd been a pro for about 15 years at that point and all we have is less than ten matches total (and reports that he was stealing the show as far back as 1980..) And he's been consistently great all that time, even now. Prefer Arn to Barry - Arn was the perfect TV wrestler, great as a tough guy or a stooge, singles or tag, title match or tag match or a brawl or a multi-man match. I know he's most known as a tag wrestler and/or Horseman but I think his best work was from 90 to 93. Put him in any kind of match on TV, with or without partners, and he'd deliver great TV matches. Not necessarily 'classics' but solid, entertaining, reliable and sometimes great matches where he would play the clown and the strategic badass. Just give him 7,10,15 minutes to do his thing and he would deliver. Those matches are just as or even more important than the epic classics since those are (or were) the bread and butter wrestling matches week-in and week-out and Arn was the perfect wrestler on that stage, the kind of guy you want on any roster. Has their ever been a better TV wrestler in the US as far as being a versatile, reliable wrestler who could always be counted on to deliver in shorter television main events? Don't care much for Dynamite and not seen too much of Marty Jones (Jim Breaks would be by far my favourite British wrestler) and it's been a long time since I cared about anyone in Japanese wrestling.

That one Texas death match that was on the RFVideo "Best of Jeff Jarrett" tape? (No, I did not actually pay money for that, a friend had it and I happened to see it.) Hell of a fun match, like a demo reel of practically every Memphis main event trope all shoved into one match, with piledrivers and ether-soaked rags and dueling managers and everything all at once. Yes it was that match and it was all great Memphis stooging, heeling, comeuppance and all the other schtick. I saw it on an RF Best of Eddie Gilbert tape I think.

USWA vs SMW in '95 is the best invasion angle I've seen but even in that case SMW was going out of business but it had some great moments while it was hot. Does anyone know what the deal was when AAA wrestlers invaded Arena Mexico in 2000? I think it happened over 2 consecutive weeks and it was odd seeing guys like Abismo, Cibernetico there, and guys like Pirata Morgan back in the building and they had huge brawls between the rosters that went all the way outside the building, but I don't think it ever really went anywhere.

Jarrett's matches with Eddie Gilbert were tremendous, probably his best matches. Aside from the Dallas match mentioned above, there is also a great match from Louisville I think where Cornette is Jarrett's babyface manager and it's a great Memphis-style match. In dallas he also had very good matches with Steve Austin (a singles match stands out as well as a tag with Fuller against Austin and Tom Pritchard). He also had a lot of good tag matches down there with Dundee and Billy Travis as partners against the likes of Embry, Gary Young etc. But after the Moondogs feud in Memphis when they tried to push him as the top man he was awful, because he was a horrible babyface interview. In '93 when they brought back Fargo to endorse him as the new Fabulous One and they had segments every week with various minor celebrities endorsing Jarrett as 'fabulous' you couldn't help but hate him. Although he burn out pretty quickly, at the time Brian Christopher was so entertaining and charismatic in the USWA, and JJ just came across like a pampered daddy's boy geek. Memphis was different to Texas and being a pseudo Von Erich goody two-shoes didn't cut it there.

I haven't voted but I think I could easily fill up my 100 favourite WCW matches just from 1989-1994 with nothing from the Nitro era. My favourite match is from Saturday Night TV in early '92 - Sting/Rhodes/Windham/Steamboat vs Rude/Eaton/Anderson/Zybszko which is everything great about that era.

Jarrett was probably at his best a few years into his career when daddy shipped him off to Dallas to reign as the top babyface of whatever was left of the Texas territory. In the USWA Dallas (and I'm referring to the '91 era post Von Erich in front of tiny Sportatorium crowds) he worked very well. He couldn't follow in the footsteps of Fargo and Lawler since Memphis demanded charismatic heroes who were great on interviews that the people could live and die with. Dallas on the other hand was happy to accept dumb blonde babyfaces who fulfilled the criteria of being young and good-looking even if they were horrible on interviews and lacked real charisma. Given that he was the top face in a dead territory with only the diehard Dallas fans who stuck with the promotion despite all the deaths and scandals watching, he managed to get over just fine, and he understood the mechanics of being a babyface. But really that also highlights Jarrett's problems as both a face and a heel - he is fine at the mechanics, understands how to put a match together and what to do at what times, but he has always lacked the intangibles and charisma to ever be a star.