sek69

I've watched WWF since the end of 86/early 87 and I never remembered hearing Gorilla being called by any other name. Could just be my 8 year old mark-mode brain just skipped over it. As far as the card goes, yeah I know it was pretty much just the Rock N' Wrestling stuff, but you'd think they would have put on some better undercard matches to try to grab some of the first time fans that were watching. I mean, it's not like it didn't help usher in a huge boom period anyway, I was just surprised Vince just didn't load up both barrels for his first big chance. The poor production value was suprising too. Yeah it was 1985 but the NWA's shows around the same time smoked the WWF in production. That reminds me, if they really wanted to go all out on the nostalgia at WM XX, they should have brought back the old MSG boom mike lowered from the ceiling. You don't get more old school than that.

I previously watched WM3, since it had a special meaning for me (I started watching the WWF during the build up), and it prompted me to track down some of the shows I haven't seen. Following that track I just watched Wrestlemania I for the first time, and I was amazed at how bad it was. I don't just mean in a "watching 1985 style wrestling in 2005" way, I mean in how shoddy the show was. Right from the start, they had Vince doing a voiceover listing the card while they showed photos, and the photo they had for the Executioner was decidedly not Buddy Rose under a mask. The actual Excecutioner looked like they told Buddy about 5 minutes before the show that he had to come up with a gimmick since he had black tape covering the "ROSE" on his boots and an ill-fitting mask to go with his ring gear that looked like a ninja halloween costume withthe sleeves cut off. That leads into the next gripe, outside of the main event and the women's title match, all the matches seem to be just random people thrown together rather than the blowoff matches to major feuds like WM is known for today. Having seen David Sammartino in action, I can say Bruno has no case if he still thinks it's Vince's fault he didn't become a star. When Brutus Beefcake is carrying your match, it's time to consider a new career path. Another thing that leapt to mind, no matter how bad the brainless bimbos they have doing interviews on RAW are, they still are better than Lord Alfred Hayes was here. Maybe he was nervous or drunk, but Lord Al managed to botch his lines almost every time, and most of the time all he was doing was just bridging in between matches. Speaking of announcers, it was pretty weird hearing Gorilla Monsoon constantly referred to as "Gino". I thought he was always referred to as Gorilla, but everyone was calling him Gino despite the on screen graphics calling him Gorilla. The women's match was funny, since you had Moolah who was merely in her 60s at this point, managing Leilani Kai who's the female version of the Iron Sheik when it comes to the Most Obvious Placeholder Champion ever. The main event was actually pretty good, as Mr. T held his own, but I still think that a Hogan-Piper main event would have been a better main event. Historically it's an important show, but I don't see how this show made Vince think that Wrestlemania 2 should be even bigger across 3 venues.

Bret Hart: Excellent worker, however almost all of his problems seem to stem from him being a mark for his own character. Toshiaki Kawada: One of the most unlucky guys in wrestling history, every time he wins the big one he ends up with an injury that cuts his reign short. Demolition: I was a huge mark for these guys back in the day, looking back it was amazing they were able to stay at the level they were at for so long considering Ax was at the tail end of a long career. Diamond Dallas Page: His promos were a little repetitive, but he always seemed solid in the ring. His work always seems to be diminished by his connections with Bisch despite the fact that Page usually proved himself in the ring. Al Snow: He must owe someone in WWE a lot of money, its the only reason I can understand him being so loyal to a company that never seemed to run out of ways to misuse him. Scott Hall: I first saw him in the AWA when he was still sporting the 70s porn star look, and even then he had the potential to be a top level guy. For all the credit HBK gets for the ladder matches, people seem to forget he wasn't in there by himself. Yuji Nagata: I remember watching his work in WCW and I got a sense that he could be somebody in a place that would allow him to do his thing. Steve Austin: Went from a great worker stuck in mid card hell in WCW to a brawler with almost no techinical skills and one of the biggest draws in wrestling history in the WWF/E. He's Exhibit A in the "workrate vs charisma" debate.

I know Steamboat's reign was short, but it was his feud with Savage that put the IC belt on the map and he should get some credit for that.

I agree Savage made the IC belt mean something, as did the Honky Tonk Man when you think about it. Both guys were very good at getting people to buy tickets to see them get beaten. I'd say Steamboat should get honorable mention despite only having a very short (by 80s WWF standards) reign because his feud with Savage is what put the IC title on the map.

Every so often Meltz does something like this that makes me wonder why everyone views him as the Oracle of Pro Wrestling when he obviously allows his personal biases to cloud his judgement.

Wow, what a way to completely dismiss a guy who's been with the company for well over a decade at or near the top of the card despite being handed feuds with some of the most talentless loads in wrestling history. I know Taker's done some shitty things behind the scenes but to simply write him off as someone who's "just been around" is so ridiculous it almost single-handedly kills any credibility this list has.

I think the IWC is just turning on Batista just like they turn on everyone that they previously demand get pushed.

I still don't get why they didn't blow off the feud with Hercules at the biggest show the company ever had at that point and then move both guys on to better things. Not that Haynes wouldn't have still fucked it up, but being in a neverending feud with Hercules is enough to drive anyone to go on a booze/coke binge.

JBL is still champ almost entirely due to the fact that Vince patterned his gimmick on himself and is a huge mark for the character. Now that Vince has turned himself into a virtual paraplegic for the forseeable future, I'd wager he's living vicarously through JBL even more.

So basically WWE creative makes people do stupid shit until they finally get sick of it and start vetoing stuff, which leads them to get labeled as a troublemaker and not a team player?

You know, upon rewatching the main event, I don't think Hogan gets enough credit. Everyone busts his balls for not being a great worker, but Andre was so broken down that Hogan pretty much worked that whole match by himself. Andre pretty much stood in the ring and let Hogan bounce off him until the finish.

I never understood why they did that, Adonis was never chisled to begin with so why give him a gimmick like that as punishment? Seemed a bit excessive to me.

Has Benoit ever done what he did last night before, roll his opponent around while in the crossface so his free hand was away from the ropes? If not, he should do it more often.

Someone on pwtorrents.net posted a torrent of WM 3 on DVD, probably from those DVDs they released in the UK of the first 4 Wrestlemanias. Seeing it again made me wonder some things: 1. What was the point of having Hercules/Billy Jack Haynes go to a Double Countout? It's not like anyone was clamoring for that feud to continue, why didn't they blow the thing off? I don't even remember this feud continuing much after WM anyway which made the finish here all the more puzzling. 2. What happened with Adrian Adonis? I remember seeing him the next couple weeks on Superstars doing interviews with a completely bald head (only half got shaved at WM) before he disappeared and turned up in the AWA even more grossly overweight than he was in the WWF. Did he get fired? Did they even have plans for him since Piper was "retired" at the time?

Wow, Orton challenging the Undertaker is really killing his heat. They really should have had Eric make the match just to be a dick, or have Taker make the challenge as the cranky old timer looking to shut up the young whippersnapper. Having Orton make the challenge just makes him look like a cocky asshole when he's *supposed* to be a face. They're either going to have to turn Orton before WM or they're just setting the stage for him to get embarrassed as fuck when the crowd turns on him for challenging Taker. I have to say, I liked RAW this week. Interesting how WWE seemed to be making a statement by having Edge win a match and having Lita make an appearance before she's completely healed. No wonder Meltz said not to expect Matt backstage tonight. Having said that, for a story that's only been making the rounds for less than a week that was a pretty sizable "You Screwed Lita" (*clap**clap*clapclapclap*) chant. Maybe that was a statement to the WWE just how much of the crowd follows things online.

Turning Flair face in NC by having him say he was stringing along HHH the whole time would not only pop the crowd huge it would also help redeem the embarrassing status of Flair's career at this point since he's basically been Stevie Richards to HHH's Raven. Hell, they could even score bonus points with the continuity freaks by pointing out Flair and Batista were former tag team champions.

*puts on tinfoil conspiracy hat* Could HHH be behind this, making Batista look pre-emptively weak by having him face a guy who's undoubtedly be the fan favorite in order to justify yet another "he's not over, give me the belt back" ploy a month after WM?

I guess I'll add my opinons on this list too: American Dragon" Bryan Danielson: never saw him in action. Mitsuharu Misawa: One of the best workers of all time, I fear for what shape he'll be in at age 60 after years of All Japan head drop mania. El Hijo del Santo: My only experience watching him is the feud he had with Octagon vs Eddie and Art Barr that led to the famous masks vs hair match. From what I saw he was a solid worker who had nuclear crowd heat, which I'm sure was partly due to his father being a small notch below God in Mexico. Christian: I was afraid that when E&C broke up, he'd end up jobbing to OVW guys on Heat. He's carved himself a nice niche on RAW and he might end up benefitting if Vince decides to punish Edge. Nick Bockwinkel: Of the "old school" champs of the 60's-80s', he's the only one you really could argue was still a solid worker in his 50s. His one hour draw with Curt Hennig was one of the best matches the AWA ever booked, and that was at the tail end of his career. Shawn Michaels:Great bumper and world class blader, but I never really was impressed by his ring work. HTQ said it best, he's a better Ricky Morton than Ricky Morton was. Few things in wrestling annoy me than watching him kip-up after taking an ass kicking for 20 minutes. Kane: One of the best big guy workers of the last 10 years, seems to have stopped trying after years of stupid angles and booking. People tend to toss him in the useless hoss pile but he can work well when motivated. Nobuhiko Takada: never saw him in action. Terry Taylor: One of the most underrated workers of all time, his whole career will always be remembered not by his solid work in the NWA but for that damn rooster gimmick. Honky Tonk Man: Not a great worker but a master of crowd heat. People wanted to see this guy get pummled for over a year.

Tonight they booked a Flair vs Batista match, and RAW is coming from Raleigh, NC. Why are they booking the guy they want to be the top face against a guy who'll get the pop of the night even if he kills a puppy in the ring?

It's probably the match I talked about, Hogan appeared to win the belt only to end up Dusty'ed.

Actually Hogan never won the title from Nick. In fact, they did a Dusty Finish that almost caused a riot because Hogan had atomic levels of heat and the fans were dying to see him get the belt. Unless of course you mean some belt other than the AWA title, then nevermind.

How is Comcast, the largest cable co in the US, not carrying this yet? I would kill to have WWE 24/7.....

Isn't it pretty much the biggest open secret in wrestling that Vince has banged every female WWF/E employee since he took over the company? Pretty much the only ones that I could be certain he didn't bang are Mae and Moolah. I think Vince even admitted as much when he almost got divorced due to his cheating ways.