tomk

He's a guy who in the late 80s referred to Muhammad Ali as Cassius Clay. I've eaten in Ollie's in Alabama (the Barbque place that went to supreme court to keep place segregated). Ollie will tell you that he isn't racist either since he always hired colored people just he has the right to keep them for sitting in the restaurant and that that isn't a racist argument.

Interesting article. It should be said that while I haven't seen the Izzy Slapowitz shoot, I've seen some Slapowitz and watched some 92 Dangerous Alliance Heyman...and Heyman is working as much of an over the top jewfaced gimmick as Slapowitz. Also The idea that if only vince knew he would have stopped this from airing seems really weird. Vince "Oh noes we can't have racists on our shows"

HP is doing a bunch of neat stuff lately: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/30/technolo...rnet/30mag.html My brain thinks "Rippa and Dean are starting to write DVDVRs again. Why is the goyem Skeith the only one who has figured out how to make a profit from poorly edited writing?"

The Graham interview is available in the newsletter archive on the Observer website. It's the January 10. 1991 issue:

No apologies needed. Wrestling myths are difficult to put to sleep and big drops like this are useful. I figure I will eventually steal this all the next time I read people talking about the “Graham could’ve turned baby and been Hogan pre-Hogan” talking point. And I assume other people will as well. It’s the internet so you will not be credited but still yeoman’s work. Some timeline questions on development of myth: When was the first Graham Dave interview you mentioned? I remember the Graham thinks he could’ve been Austin thing. But don’t remember if that was 99 or later. Was the push back on that and the Dave defense and then push back on that something that happened on wrestlingclassics or is that something that happened over the phone or elsewhere? I remember the Graham claim and it being funny but don’t remember the Dave defense or the Hey Dave why wasn’t it mentioned…” conversations. Links? And the “Vince Jr wanted to turn Graham face in 78 to be Hogan” story addendum showed up approximately when?

Yeah shit like that... When did people start saying that kind of stuff?

Where did the Superstar Graham could have turned face and become Hogan five years earlier story start? Is that something that started up with the Graham DVD set that WWE released? Or was that a story circulated earlier? Cause its become weirdly conventional wisdom at this point.

Yeah what jdw said. There is no evidence that Savage is a pedophile and also no evidence that Vince wouldn't hire a pedophile. The idea that Vince won't deal with Savage cause Savage diddled his young daughter isn't "Vince is a guy who thinks pedophilia is beyond the pale and won't deal with pedophiles". If none of them had been publicly outed and Vince thought a tag team of Art Barr and Tower of Doom managed by Mel Phillips with Gary Glitter entrance music could draw money he would do it. The story that Vince won't deal with Savage is because employee diddled young daughter of boss behind boss's back. If you don't think Vince is crazy insecure motherfucka who needs to be constantly validated you haven't been paying attention. How do you go about doing that? IF DNA linked John Mark Karr to the death of Jon Benet Ramsey would people stop thinking that her parents were involved? Ingmar A. Guandique killed Chandra Levy. Gary Conditt is completely inocent. But Conditt is still persona non grata. Once public perception of a truth, you can't just "squash" it. Wrestling is a world of liars, lies and storiesstorytellers where Bs becomes accepted history overnight. It's alot easier to start a new myth than kill an old one.

Yes wrestling is filled with pedophiles. During the RF scandal there was a letter published on the WON site from someone supposedly in the WWF defending RF. Still every girl raised by a family that pushes them into beauty pageants will tell you “All my dads friends wanted to fuck me”. “My parents tell me I’m so special” becomes “everyone thinks I’m so special” “My parents tell me I’m so beautiful”---“Everyone thinks I’m beautifull” “My parents tell me I’m going to be a lil hottie”—“everyone wants to fuck me”. There is a huge difference between “everyone was always flirting with me” and “Mr Poffo showed me his dick and wetted my 'no-no' place with his mouth”. “All these adults were always hitting on me, it was creepy” is self aggrandizing and meaningless.

There is a big difference between allowing oneself to look like a “horrible person” and allowing oneself to look like a “bitch.” “Horrible people” people who act like they don’t care what anyone thinks about their action, who call out the government with contempt inspire a level of fear and respect. If one of your employees fucks your underage daughter behind your back, you’ve been made a bitch. You're a weakened authority figure. If your employees think that your underage daughter has been fucked behind your back you’ve been made a bitch. You're a weakened authority figure If your employees think your underage daughter was fucked by a former employee behind your back and you rehire him, you’ve been made a bitch. You're a weakened authority figure. Vince is totally willing to look like a horrible person. He’s not willing to look like a bitch. If you think that stopping the spread of an untrue rumor is as simple as asking all the participants in the story to admit that it’s a lie and then sharing slim jims…you’ve never dealt with a false rumor. It's hard to kill a false rumor. Continuing to not work with Savage makes the rumor grow stronger. Working with won't kill it. It is hard to kill a generally shared belief. If OJ hadn’t killed his wife and her boyfriend, would he have behaved any different post trial? Once he was understood to be guilty it wouldn’t matter if a drug dealer showed up tomorrow and admitted guilt, even if there were DNA evidence linking that drug dealer, Oj would still be perceived to be guilty.

You got me there, boss. I tend to think that whether Savage actually banged and/or molested a 14 year old underage kid (as the "rumor" was told back in Version 1.0) is just a bit more important then him being on the outs with a sleazy wrestling promoter. John Sure child molestation is more important than wrestling. I never argued otherwise. Still this is a thread about why Vince won’t do business with Savage. And reading through the thread it seemed at least to me that the purpose of those trying to debunk the rumor was to say that if rumor isn’t true than that can't be the reason for Vince’s actions. My point was that even if Savage hadn't actually stuffed or diddled an under 18 year old Stephany, even if the rumor is completely bunk, even if Vince knows the rumor to be bunk, the mere existance of a rumor/story, the mere fact that people are talking is sufficient grounds for keeping a guy on the outs. Parlow: It was bullshit man, you ain't need it on your mind. Marlo: What the fuck you know about what I need on my mind.My name was on the street? When we bounce from this shit here, y'all going to go down on them corners and let the people know...word did not get back to me. Let them know Marlo step to any motherfucker -- Omar, Barksdale, whoever. My name is my name!

I've never met a girl so ugly that she wasn't convinced that there was some guy on the bus staring at her who wanted to fuck her. The models who I've met take that delusion to extreme levels. Parents who raise girls to believe that they're so beautiful that the whole world "needs" to see their beauty raise daughters who are convinced that everyone is trying to fuck them.

Yeah we can all say the story is bullshit. Wrestlers spread misinformation all the time and it is frustrating when stuff that I know to be bullshit makes it into Meltzer historical pieces. But the misinformation that wrestlers spread amongst themselves affects how they behave. I'm interested in why Savage is considered persona non grata. Not interested in the question of who Savage actually stuck his cock in and when. The point is even if Vince knows that the Savage/Steph story is bullshit, we can assume he also knows that people are telling a story of him (for lack of better term) being cuckolded by Savage. The existance of a rumor as reason for Savage being on the outs is more important than if the rumor is true or not. Proving that Savage didn't poke Steph doesn't affect the "why is Savage on the outs" issue.

I can’t believe people are still having the “Ring of Hell” are “the stories told by professional liars and psychopaths worth anything?” discussion. Does the truth content of any wrestling story really matter? In the mid nineties I was fascinated by the complex social "navigations" between indigenous herbal healers and actual narcotrafficers in Mexico. It was very difficult to gain entry to both groups. Both groups wanted nothing to do with the other. Both are closed groups with secret knowledge who are distrustful of outsiders. Every herbal healer I met told me almost the exact same story. ”Everyone else who knows how to use this plant will insist that to properly experience it you should combine with the sensory depravation technique of going into a cave and piercing the head of your dick with a thin needle and then ingesting this” No one is going into a cave and piercing the head of their penis in order to better experience a drug. The fact that it is a complete BS story doesn’t make it any less culturally important or psycholgocially powerful to the story teller (or the intended audience). Narcotrafficers moving scopolamine through the Yucatan told stories that are as consistent in their form (although far more violent) and probably as BS. People in secret societies tell stories. They tell stories among themselves, tell stories to outsiders. Sharing of those stories is an important way of establishing cultural norms and testing each other. Stories of “hazing” rituals to gain entrance into a secret society can be as important (or even take the place) of actual rituals. Historical truth content isn’t important. It isn’t even of secondary importance. There is a story that Vader left Noah when he got into conflict with the local Yakuza who ritualistically stabbed him multiple times. There is a story that Vader ritualistically stabbed himself multiple times and lied claiming the Yakuza did it in order to leave NOAH. The historical truth content of the story doesn’t matter. What matters is that these are stories that are told and thus have some sort of cultural relevance within wrestling society. There is a story that Scott Levy is hated because he gave Shane his first drugs and was one of the firwt people to fuck Steph. There is a story that he’s hated because he gave Steph her fist drugs and fucked Shane. The historical truth content of the story doesn’t matter. What matters is that these are stories that are told and thus have some sort of cultural relevance within wrestling society, For all we know Stephany has some sort of busted IUD lodged in her twat and it would be impossible to fuck her unless you had a corkscrew dick. Even if Vince knows that, knows that Savage fucking Stephany is a physical impossibility…what matters isn’t the truth of the story. All that matters is that there is a story being told. I don't hang out or talk with wrestlers but I know enough about "deviant" subcultures to know that for the most part "is talked about" matters far more than questions of if "did happen", "might as well have happened" or is "physical impossibility that it happened".

No DQ? So HHH has been hurt more than anyone else in WWE by the no blading change. Abby in WCW seemed to have a better idea of how to move from first to second gear without blood. So will HHH/Orton have blood in Mania

The obvious spot is to have Godfather come out to pop with five of his ho's to fill out match. Not sure if they do that with current tamer WWE but that seems like the obvious spot.

Yeah I thought the "toys are aimed at an adult collector market" was actually shockingly smart handling of that whole thing.

Lot of interesting stuff there.Yokozuna v Jerry Stubbs standing out and Shawn Baxter getting a push in the area where his dad was famous. Still what the fuck was Ueda doing running a promotion in Pensecola?

Despite the evidence that would indicate the former, I'd be willing to be it's the latter. I have no doubt based on Vince's beliefs that it it was instilled in her early on that steroids is a Thing We Do Not Discuss. I don't buy sheltered. Early in her marriage when she and her husband where clearly "working out together" she started to develop a matching neanderthal forehead. I'm sure someone can put together photos.

WTF??

Maan people complain about Gabe being in Meltzer's ear. This paragraph feels like it was written by Eddie Gilbert. I mean it's kind of embarassing. I think Sid showed up in Titan in 91 so over two years but still. Ueda's Pensacola promotion? I'm almost positive he threw the hot sauce in Todd Morton's face. Shockingly I don't think I've ever seen his All Japan run. Not a jobber. Pez Whatley in a pushed role with lots of mic time. Available, but nothing special. I've seen better two blowjob team match ups. Rockn Rolls had better matches with other folks in Japan.

The drug promo is maybe the only good Paul Diamond Memphis promo the rest of them are laughably awkward and foreign.

Lots of regular sexualy snide asides were also aimed at Ross. Heyman, and Cornette as being homosexuals on commentary as well. I'm trying to remember which face Flair always talked about as having hard time swallowing his nut.

Unless there is a big death around the time its approved that would add pressure, I doubt it would be added to the test of prohiited substances anyway.