tomk

Meltzer sniffing around a story and then dropping it is not un-Meltzerlike at all.

The Meltzer story was that Steph saved Cena's job. Saw the rapping and something in him worth pushing and that Jim Barnett didn't understand the whole throwback jersey gimmick as it covered up Cena's chest.

So the other day I was joking with Schneider about an amusing article about Mickey Whipwreck’s School and Fed in Social Psychology Quarterly (or as I described it “the ASA journal with photo covers”) and realized I should find him a copy. The whole thing is available as a PDF online and thought other people might enjoy it. Really the best part is the footnotes and bibliography. The author makes interesting comparisons between wrestling and other areas where there is sociological literature available. It’s kind of awesome to think about the relationship between pro-wrestling and Koreans working in a nail salon. I really wished I had this when I was arguing with insaneclown or the HHH superfan about if wrestling was a sport or not. “Hmm while you do make a good point about the features it shares with sports, let me tell you about the features pro-wrestling shares with bill collectors. Pro-wrestling is as much bill collecting as it is a sport” http://www.asanet.org/galleries/default-fi...8SPQFeature.pdf

When Muchnick first reported Orton as suicidal attempt, Meltzer seemed to imply "Hey this is something worth reading, that I am not at liberty to say myself".

Never read much of Cooey’s board so don’t know what exactly his objections were. But I assume that you can still find old Martin articles at the Observer web site. Pretty sure you can find his posts at wrestlingclassics. He was easily as consistently dumb as Dan Whalers. Quick recent history lesson: Times have changed but remember that at one point people understood that the observer was the preeminent name in wrestling reporting and felt Meltzer was watering down his brand by allowing himself to be represented by an army of Scott Keiths. This all took place at the same time that there was an increase in numbers of people who were on the selection committee for WON HOF. People who thought that there was value in historical projects like the Hall of fame saw that get diluted as suddenly your army of Keith’s was given votes (as “reporters”.) Meltzer says and does lots of goofy dumb shit but allowing your Whalers,Martins, etc to represent him was considered to be embarrassing. This is all recent history (less than six years ago). And really in today’s world of Joe Babinsack level stupidity, it is hard not to be nostalgic for the simpler times of Todd Martin stupidity.

I'm not. I like them a lot. I'm saying that I don't see how they influenced ECW. Your acid inspired Zodiac promos as proto-MTV editing-----MTV editing inspires ECW backstage filming. I don't believe for a minute that Zodiac promos influenced Hype Williams or Spike Jonze. But it would make sense for Heyman to be a guy who says "Hey we can use this style to make our show feel contemporary. It's worked before in wrestling". More likely ECW editing style was developed by Matty in The House who never saw any Stampede. Still of all the things you quote that seems like something that someone could legitamately argue.

Why are you hating on the Zodiac promos?

It was a movie marketed to wrestling fans that portrayed wrestling fans as idiots. That's bad marketing. But Landau, Platt and Joe Pantoliano were all entertaining.

I am sure I am going to fuck this up because I stink at remembering scientific terms but I have heard this discussed in social settings a bunch of times (normally around issues of trying to deal with organ donation from the brain dead). If your hypothalamus can’t function on its own (you can’t regulate your eloctolytes, your glucose levels etc.) if you are taken off the machine your organs will get fucked up (there is a better medical term I’m sure) and you will die. The heart beat is not governed by the hypothalamus. Heart will continue to beat even as rest of your metabolic functions cease to function. Again this is my memory of social conversations. I was probably inebriated for most of these so I probably missed key points. Still I'm postive that heart can continue to beat without hypothalamus.

Martin Landau was pretty good as Stu Hart and Oliver Platt made a fine Embry.

I thought luchawiki had a bio of him instead they have one of William Boo: http://www.luchawiki.org/index.php?title=William_Boo In a year where I was sure Moolah was going to make it in, pleasantly surprised by two legit good candidates making it instead.. Hey here's my Cholitas Peru/Bolivian link on DVDVR: http://board.deathvalleydriver.com/index.p...mp;#entry912041 On some level it is weird for Meltzer to acknowledge the importance of a guy who while incredibly influential in South American wrestling (the Titanes Del Ring influence that gets ignored in mainstream stories that I was trying to hint at in the link dump) which is something that the rest of the Observer ignores. Also influential to the parts of AAA that Meltzer on some level wants to ignore. Will this eventually lead Meltzer to contemplate putting Jack Pfefer or Maurice Tillet in the HOF? Or is the burluesque and ridiculous only acceptable in foreign styles of wrestling?

Who are all the guys who went through the Blue Bloods Training Camp with him in 2002: Ace Steel Chris Hero Brian Danielson Colt Cabana CM Punk EZ Money? Frankie the Face? anyone else?

Batista went to Afa's school. He is an OVW graduate. Festus worked some Pennsylvania indies, he's still a product of WWE developmental. Having some training elsewhere doesn't make anyone less of a graduate. Chevy Chase spent his freshman year at Haverford and graduated from Bard. He is a product of Bard and a Bard alumn. That he spent his freshman year elsewhere doesn't make this any less true.

Guys who came out of Power Plant with current roles in the WWE : Big Show, Jamie Knoble, Chuck Palumbo, and Jimmy Wayne Yang. TNA recently released Rellik and Elix Skipper and I don't really count Sharmell as Power Plant trainee. I can't think of any ex-Power Planters working NJ or AJ currently. But honestly the Power Plant has been closed for almost nine years. Yeah Jeff Farmer is no longer getting New Japan bookings but I think that has more to do with his age and the way NJ is currently using Americans than some failure in the way they trained. In 2004 Ultimo Dragon was inducted into the WON HOF. One of key points to his candidacy was his training ability at a point when none of his trainees had done anything outside his own vanity fed. I joked at the time that Pez Whatley and Parker were better candidates. In 2004 ex power planters included: Goldberg then the WWE champ, Bob Sapp then the IWGP champ (and biggest money draw in the world), Horshu and Jindrak who were seconding Angle and New Japan and All Japan were filled with ex- Power Plant grads in pushed roles. That was five years ago. The Power Plant has been closed for almost nine years now and has about five guys who still have role in major mainstream promotions (WWE and EMLL). I'm not the biggest fan of the guys who came out of Power Plant. I thought the HWA trained workers had better fundamentals. But for HWA trained guys who still have active role in wrestling today all I can come up with is Shark Boy in TNA and Nigel Mcguinness in ROH (Whitmer is taking time off and well Chad Collyer is working small time shows in England). I'm trying to come up with guys who trained in OVW eight years ago who still have role in wrestling today. Henry, Cade, Kaz Hayashi and Yang were in OVW around that time but I think Henry is only one who you could call a OVW trainee.

Were the announcers the only cool characters in the WWF in the 80s? The WWF isn't Hustle but under Vince it has always presented wrestling somewhat ironically. 80's wrestlers played it straight while the announcers Ventura, Heenan, Okerlund, and Mcmahon himself were always in on the joke with a wink and a nudge. The attitude era flipped that and you had the wrestlers all in on the joke while the announcers played it straight. I think self aware ironic cool tongue n cheek commentary on ironic cool tongue in cheek performers would actually come off as corny. Mystery Science Theatre watching an episode of the Family Guy would be a show that the fans of neither would like.

Huh? Why do you think he would have been better? I can't see that happening at all. A guy who is incapable of wrestling and yet you have all three companies in the same year competing to use him in a pushed role isn't just a survivor. He's a guy who understands the biz. and a guy who the biz felt could play a pushed role in that era. If Pillman hadn't had the carcrash would he have ever developed the loose cannon act? The Loose Cannon act was an act based on character of being an out of control drug addict. Predicting what would happen if "out of control drug addict" was able to survive a bit longer is silly.

Was he the anchor or just the A1 gaijin? Han was the A1 guy. But that’s the kind of wrestling discussion that I never want to get involved in. Hamada is not a draw. I am not making an argument based on draw. I don’t know to what degree Saito or Sakaguchi are nominated for their drawing ability. I’m making an argument based on influence and importance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Lucha_Libre If : -Onita’s FMW never drew as big as W*NG,IWA Japan, or Big Japan -FMW trainee Kanemura ended up anchoring WAR’s junior heavyweight division -Garbage wrestling is the predominant junior style in 2008 ::would Onita be a better or worse candidate for the HOF? That’s a silly counterfactual. Onita was both a draw and inspired a short boom in garbage wrestling feds. But how important is draw vis a vis influence/historical importance? would Onita still be a HOFer if he inspired the Death Match boom but wasn't himself a succesful promoter/draw? It’s 2008, deathmatch wrestling is a minor blip compared to lucharesu. To whatever degree puroresu exists in the mainstream, deathmatch wrestling is something that exists completely separate from mainstream while lucharesu is right there in the main weave. I'm not a guy who is completely sold on Hamada as candidate. But he seems more historically important than the other nominees. When he was on the ballot as a Mexican I felt: "This guy may have been a star in Mexico but he didn't mean more historically than a couple dozen other Mexican stars". Moved to Japan category I start to question "Not a star but he means something to Japanese wrestling"

So I wrote the following on Gran Hamada at wrestlingclassics. hamada is a guy who I had a set position on when he was listed as mexican candidate and i think needs to be reconsidered now that he is a Japanese candidate.

The whole thing is awesome as the 900 number scheme to bilk wrestling fans is sandwhiched inbetween promos for evil televangelist heel manager who supposedly is bilking parishoners with a 900 scheme.

Blindfold matches is an old fashioned stip aimed at arena crowd. the whole match and match payy offs are built around crowd interaction spots. I remember as a kid enjoying one of these but the WWF and especially PPV WWF is about matches playing to the TV and not the arena. The viewer at home can't interact with the match, it doesn't work for them.

The time Schneider was able to get a gig calling Monterey lucha I thought he did a decent job with the higher end matches, he struggled alot calling a circa 1998 Fishman v Markus match. Lord Alfred Hayes really ruled when calling women's matches as he had all sorts of goofball Brit carny names and explanations for joshi moves.

http://fds.duke.edu/db/aas/PublicPolicy/kfrey Things that he did similar that Loss pointed to were midcard light heavyweight division with international talent (Lyger), running with a "strong heel stable led by an ex-WWFer" ( Ric Rude and the Dangerous Alliance), and the actual spending of money. I think Loss is way overstating the similarities.There are lots of differences between the way the light heavyweight division was used under Frye and the cruisers under Bischoff. Lots of differences between the DA and the NWO. Lots of differences between the way Frye sppent money and Bischoff spent money (Frye spent money smarter, Iron chad mentions the incentives for best matches which meant quality of matches during that period are in my opinion better than quality of televised wrestling before or after anywhere in US and resulted in shows where Curtis Hughes v Nikita would deliver ***+ match).

Should be pointed out that 123 Kid had a legit knock out finisher, where Delaney is treated as completely lacking credibility and as being capable of nothing but fluke win. He isn't booked as any more credible than Lee Scott. Failing to get over as underdog babyface when you have no hope/comeback spots isn't a surprise.

First Wrestlemania started with Tito v Executioner followed by King Kong Bundy v SD Jones and then an under five minute Steamboat v Borne match. The 9/86 MSG card that I think I have somewhere on tape: http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/resul...eevent/1980.php 1. Moondogs vs The Islanders 2. Nick Kiniski vs Steve Lombardi 3. Billy Jack Haynes vs Bob Orton 4. Hart Foundation vs Rougeau Brothers 5. Ted Arcidi vs Tony Garea 6. Steve Regal vs Jose Louis Rivera 7. SD Jones vs Mr X 8. Harley Race vs Tito Santana 9. Sika vs Lanny Poffo 10. Hulk Machine, Big Machine & Super Machine vs John Studd, King Kong Bundy & Bobby Heenan. The Philadelphia show has two opener "jobbage" matches. "Jobbage" matches were traditionally put in different places on WWF cards. I assume Vince Sr. got a percentage of concessions, and well Vince Jr revolutionized the merch table. So your more likely to get one opener prelim match, a "get-you-to-the concession-stand" match in the middle of the card and maybe a heat killer match between the main and semi main.

did anyone ever tape UIW? When trying to find info on Bubba Monroe I think there is a james Beard thread somewhere where he claims that Axl gave him a push.