Coffey

Dave has flipped his gourd.

Yeah, this is how I feel. I think it's in my top five right now (this year) but that's more due to there not being a ton of great stuff this year & me still being a little behind in my watching. I liked Brock/Cena more than it, for example & definitely both Okada/Tanahashi & Okada/Naito. I do think I liked it more than Richards/Elgin though. No way that's a 5-star match but if it rejuvenates Dave's love of pro-wrestling again, great.

Best way I can explain Tanahashi is that he looks like a rockstar that would not look out of place wrestling a main event style in a WWE ring. I wouldn't even know who to compare him to. He's a hybrid of several different people, I think, but naming names would either not do justice to Tanahashi or be too high-praise & a slight against the people named. It's sort of like that, if it makes sense.

New Japan has been great all year, I would say the best promotion in the world, and Okada's entire run was a ton of fun. I still have him as Wrestler of the Year and 3/5 of my MotYC are from NJPW.

Well that certainly seems tame. This is what is supposed to take him out of ROH?

No offense, but does anyone give a fuck about Tammy Sytch? Why do they keep putting her on camera? I can't imagine her Shoots sell like hotcakes.

It is probably going to be Eric Bischoff. Abyss/Park will be the "mole" & Bully Ray will turn on Sting.

Well, that's the case for everything in wrestling. Russo isn't unique there. Yeah, that's what I meant. It's just going to be weird, so the few in this thread that got up-in-arms (maybe that's an exaggeration) over a comment or two of positivity in the direction of Russo should probably brace themselves. I foresee polls in the future asking absurdity like "who is the best writer/booker ever?" with Russo winning...

The longer Vince Russo is away from professional wrestling the more fondly he will be remembered. In a few years, there will be a whole new generation of fans talking about how great he was & how much of a genius he is. Rose-colored glasses, nostalgia & all that.

The Godfather is one the greatest movies of all-time & expecting anyone in professional wrestling, Vince Russo or otherwise, to even come close to being able to tell a story that well is ridiculous. If they were that great of a writer, they would not be in wrestling in the first place. So I think expectations are either too high or that was a terrible example to use. Although I know I'm reading into it more than the point that was being made, and I do get the overall point, I just think using the Godfather was silly. Here's a question: what are the greatest stories ever told in wrestling? If we're trying to talk about what great is as it pertains to wrestling, let us first define where the bar is at. Because even all the best stories I can think of had stupid and silly parts to them.

What is the Rey Mysterio, Jr. story that Dave Meltzer is referring to?

Anyone not watching WWE Night of Champions LIVE needs to download it tomorrow just for JBL on commentary. But Dolph Vs. Orton is pretty damn good too. JBL is SO GOOD.

So how long until "this is not a part of tonight's entertainment" is worked into an angle, the same way they did it with the referees throwing up the X sign?

When I think of a Jerry Lawler highlight video, I don't think of the band Scandal. LOL

Hopeful for a full recovery. Hope to see The King further pursue his amazing drawing ability as he is an amazing artist. That will certainly not put any strain on his heart. I did not watch RAW last night as Monday Night Football was a double-header. That being said, after finding about all of this stuff, I have no interest in watching the show. It would just be too uncomfortable.

Literally his entire run. It's all a lot of fun & doesn't last that long, really. Several good-to-great matches, including my personal Match of the Year.

I appreciate this post & thank you for taking the time to write it. It makes me feel more confidant with my selections. After all, I can always change & update them over time.

So, after taking a few days to re-watch some stuff, re-read some stuff, talk with my friends & bounce opinions off of people, I think I might have Stan Hansen at #1. Terry Funk, Ric Flair, Jumbo, Misawa, Kawada, Steamboat, Savage, Doc & Lawler for top ten with Kobashi just missing. This is a "project" that seems completely impossible to me. Even once I do decide to put a number beside a name, I almost instantly question it. I never feel completely satisfied with even my own personal opinions & then if they are to get questioned on top of that too, I'm not sure if I could defend or detract too many points. SO HARD!

This is one that I have ran into myself while making my list. My order was: 1. Kawada 2. Misawa 3. Kobashi My reasoning was because Kobashi has some silly selling a lot of the time & Misawa constantly fixing his tights or wiping the sweat off his eyebrows after taking a big move takes me out of moments. I know that's a shitty reason & such a ridiculous, tiny little thing, but when comparing those guys, for me, it comes down to that shit because they're all so good so that you have grasp at straws to find flaws. Their matches are great, against each other & against some other guys of the era that I have seen, like Hansen, Akiyami, tags with Taue, etc. I also ran into the selling issue with Terry Funk. His stumbling around drunken-old man sell is really cheesy.

Here's an exercise. Put these groups of three in order from best to worst: Rick Rude Curt Hennig Ted DiBiase Ric Flair Terry Funk Jerry Lawler Stan Hansen Steve Williams Terry Gordy === This is what I was talking about in the John Cena thread. It's so hard for me to say one guy is better than another guy when they're both great. A is better than B and B is better than C so A is more better than C than it is better than B.

(this post for future reference) A few notes for me, personally: I have very limited knowledge & exposure to female pro-wrestlers, especially before 2005 (this will explain my exclusion of them, I'm just ignorant to them) I have almost zero knowledge & exposure to Lucha Libre. I have tried to start watching more recently. I have watched pro-wrestling since 1987, started with WWF. I don't know if I have ever seen a Memphis match that didn't have Jerry Lawler in it I want to base my list on in-ring so as not to exclude wrestlers from non-English speaking promotions EDIT: I'm at right around 40 so far & I'm not sure if wrestlers of today suck or if I'm just horribly biased but I think the "newest" guy on my list is Rey Mysterio, Jr. I don't think anyone from the last fifteen or so years is on it yet, & I'm not sure if that's wrong... Maybe that's the difference between working territories or in other countries, or just being brought up from developmental, like OVW or FCW. I almost feel a sort of "pressure" for including guys. Like, I feel like these lists "should" include some guys but I just haven't seen anything by them, or not enough of them, or honestly thought they sucked, which can just be a generational thing. Guys like Bruno Sammartino, Bruiser Brody, Strangler, The Destroyer, etc. I have only seen a few Brody matches, never seen a Strangler or Destroyer match and Bruno bores me to tears. EDIT2: Here's more guys to debate because they are odd to me: Chris Jericho Brian Pillman Dustin Rhodes/Goldust Chris Candido Bam Bam Bigelow I have always felt that Jericho was massively overrated but I still think he might make the list. Pillman I just don't know if he ever did enough. Same with Dustin. But maybe both are better than Jericho? It's hard for me. BBB is a personal fav and Candido I feel is underrated, if anything, but still not sure if good enough.

A lot of different ways to approach this thread as far as replies are concerned. I'm trying to spark debate & discussion but this thread is also going to be my personal playground for compiling my personal list. So, here goes: We've talked about Shawn Michaels & John Cena. We have been critical of others like Kurt Angle or Triple H. I have seen several threads, not just here but on others forums as well, discussing "The List" as it pertains to personal favorites/greatest wrestlers ever. I would like to use this thread to credit or discredit various wrestlers. To hear differing viewpoints on stars of years past and potentially remind me of moments/matches that I may have over-looked, never seen or simply forgotten. Right now, I can't even get to 100, let alone start cutting guys. So I think I'm going to stop at 50 & go from there. Once I have a definitive list written out, I can just update it over time & if I bump someone, they can move down instead of off the list completely, so that my list can grow from there. Not to steal the thunder of anyone else, but we could compare the wrestlers to Triple H, Shawn Michaels, John Cena & Kurt Angle as a starting point. I'm finally putting pen-to-paper & making a definitive list of my Top 50 favorite pro-wrestlers, as it pertains to an in-ring perspective. That way, when someone asks, be it in person or on-line, I can simply consult my list & give an answer, using my list as the reference. I can simply update my list, both the names & the numbers over time. This is a project that I have wanted to take on for awhile but I kept putting it off as it seems like a daunting task that will ultimately probably prove to be pretty fruitless, but I have an abundance of time & while thinking about some wrestlers today, I finally wanted to do it. Thoughts on the following wrestlers: (these are guys that I have been thinking about lately) Hulk Hogan Roddy Piper Sean Waltman Lex Luger Scott Hall Scott Steiner Jake Roberts John Tenta Magnum T.A. Is it unfair to hold a style against a wrestler? As an example, guys like Earthquake, One Man Gang or King Kong Bundy worked a big man style, so do you only compare them to other big men, like Big Van Vader? By that same token, do you compare cruiserweight/light-heavyweight wrestlers to other guys of their style or the Lucha style or just to everyone as a whole? I'm asking not as a yes/no matter-of-fact question but how you guys specifically feel. How about tag workers? I know in the HBK thread, Loss listed several women in his favorite list. So maybe that can be a talking point as well. Are you only as strong a worker as the talent that you're given to work with? The Undertaker has had some good WWE style main events lately but I don't think anyone was trying to call him a good worker when he was a no-selling zombie working with guys like Giant Gonzales. Another idea I had, although not one I would want to be in charge of, a "tournament" or sorts, where people submit ballots with their Top 10 lists of wrestlers & we give a weighted point system to wrestlers based on their number on lists. Like #1 on a list would be worth 10 points, #2 worth 9 points, etc. & then add up all the scores at the end to form a ProwrestlingOnly.com List.

Hmm, my mood definitely changes my thought process as it pertains to fairly (or unfairly) criticizing wrestlers. I think Shawn Michaels is definitely in my Top 100 & Kurt Angle is definitely not. John Cena is up-in-the-air at the moment as currently, I can't put him above guys like Scott Steiner, which I think a lot of it has to do with nostalgia. Those early 90's Steiner tags where Scotty was just busting out the Frankensteiner are a lot of fun to me. I am trying to form a list, for the first time, however. An actual pen-to-paper list that I can number & update over time so when threads come up like this I can look & answer.

I really dislike Kurt Angle. His match with Jeff Hardy on iMPACT! last night pretty much summed up every reason why too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiKMgfUAFZQ Starts 1:04:00