JerryvonKramer

Right, and the very fact he's even talking to guys like David Crockett who isn't on any other show is giving you more "inside" than any other show.

NWA President's position is mainly that his vote decides ties on NWA votes and that he controls the booking of the world champion. That's what the real NWA President did.

I'll grant you that.

The simple reason it would never happen is politics. Wrong guy from the wrong place. You've got to understand that old NWA mindset. He had zero chance.

I know we're not really in HoF season but I watched some WWF shows from 83-4 and the impact of Gene Okerlund really cannot be overstated: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/16786-jerryvonkramers-cheesy-journey/?p=5681195 Putting here as a kind of bookmark for later. He transforms that TV product.

There's a few of mine missing too: Jerry Monti Johnny Powers Chief Thundercloud Fred Curry Igor Volkoff Randy Barber Rick Link Tony Russo

The Funk show was a bit different in that Flair felt like he'd legit forgotten he was doing a show and it was just two friends on the phone. When Terry asked Vicky for someone's name, it was just like listening in to two old friends. We shouldn't really be complaining about that. Okay, the thing about David not going to the funeral or Dick Slater in the nursing home was close to the bone and we "felt" like we shouldn't be hearing it. But it kind of has a fly-on-the-wall quality to it. And given that any of these guys could drop dead at any moment, don't complain because one day they'll be gone forever.

Baba and Inoki simply wouldn't stand for it either.

I can't see any circumstance that Jerry Lawler becomes world champion in 1983.

That's not happening. I believe that the death of the territories is a bad thing.

Soundcloud is currently down.

Fine.

If Lawler becomes champion, the WWF will leave the NWA and cancel all dates on Andre. We will not recognise a gimmick world champion.

Even though Mister Saint Laurent is a pretty good "second" to Sullivan on these shows (although Kevin puts him over a bit too hard), his voice is one of the whiniest, nerdiest voices of all time. What accent is that? Guuuyyyyyys It's a hell of deaaallll He's so nasal. If you can get past that he arguably rivals Conrad on Flair's shows.

Highly unlikely.

Conditions for Vince McMahon Sr's vote: - Must have excellent wrestling credentials, preferably with amateur background - Must not be a gimmick wrestler

The WWF does not put anyone forward.

Skipping now to July 14th 1984. I know this was the last TV taping at the Allentown Agricultural Hall. Once again, I only really want to comment on presentational changes. - first things first, the opening credits now have Michael Jackson's "Thriller" as a theme and heavily feature Hogan. - Hogan and Mean Gene are in tuxes now, very smart. - Little thing but the WWF logo is much much more prominent than it was in the past. Come to think of it, I actually wonder if the Vince Sr promotion had a logo at all. Did it? - Joe McHugh still here. I know he was the Agricultural Hall's house mic guy, he sort of came with the venue in the same way that Dr Tom Miller came with Greensboro. You'd never see McHugh outside of Allentown and you'd never see Miller outside of Greensboro. He's wearing a gorgeous white tux here. Maybe his last ever appearance? - another small thing but the graphics on the screen which show the names of the wrestlers have changed from the ugly old yellow ones to big block yellow with the WWF logo prominently displayed along side the name. Branding branding branding. - another thing, shots of individual members of the crowd wearing merchandise, literally world's apart from the show from July 83. - another new segment, WWF update! This is Vince in a news anchor sort of setting with a massive WWF logo behind him. He does this cheesy hard turn to the camera which cuts as he turns, you can tell Vince is loving it and gets off on that shit. This is the genesis of the Craig De George / Sean Mooney role right here. Vince literally runs through the headlines of what is happening in the promotion and all of a sudden you're aware of every single storyline, who is feuding with who and why. - that logo is absolutely bloody everywhere on this show! Piper cuts a promo with a Giant WF above his shoulder. You cannot get away from it, it's front and centre everywhere you look. - Cyndi Lauper video package now with Wendi Richter working out in a gym. Lots of entourage types chanting. Richter looks like an ass kicker here. Lauper is so into it. Again, the idea of a video package seemed improbably just one year before this. - An aside but a random funny moment on commentary when Okerlund tries to put over the idea that SD Jones has everything coming together right now "he has the right level of experience and athletic ability, I think now is the time he's really coming of age". Terrible analysis Gene!! And awful judgement. I wonder how many people at the time watching him vs. Dick Murdoch bought that line by Okerlund. In fairness, he did only take a count out loss to Captain Redneck, not a pinfall. - Paul Orndorff cuts a promo at the end of this show, during which Okerlund is just fantastic. His banter, his chat, his lines, he's just so great at what he does. I think after Hogan and Heenan or Piper, Gene might have been the single most significant acquisition for Vince's expansion. He's transformed this TV product just by being there.

So that's it all paths to getting on cable are blocked?

So out of interest I wanted to see how much if anything had changed in the world of WWF Championship Wrestling by January 7th 1984 I'm not doing a blow by blow account of this show, just wanted to make some observations: - first of all, a huge change: Gene Okerland has replaced Pat Patterson as Vince's "sidekick". The impact of this one small change to the show is HUGE. Okerlund just makes everything seem so much more like a major deal it's unreal. But we also see him more on camera. He does colour here, but also interviews, and there is a lot more in front of the camera stuff than we saw in July 83. One little quirk of his commentary is the way he says "some kind of an arm bar", "some kind of an elbow". It's pretty funny. - this taping was still at the Allentown Agricultural Hall, where it has been for years, and we still get Joe McHugh as the ring announcer, even though he's starting to look ancient. Dick Woerlhe is still the ref too. This bit hasn't changed, although McHugh got a few things wrong during this show like called David Schultz "Mr D" rather than "Dr D" and butchering "Rowdy Roddy Piper". Just a flub by him, but I wonder if at this point with Vince Sr increasingly Ill and out of the picture, whether little things like that might get to VKM? I mean he'd just done all he could to get these guys here and the announcer flubs their names? I can't see Vince not caring about that. McHugh's days looked numbered here. - speaking of Piper, this was his TV debut and he cuts a manic promo after the match. Again, just the presence of Piper seemed to bring this show from the staid mid-70s presentation of just a few months back to modernity, it's amazing to see. No other presentational elements had changed, just personnel. Okerlund + Piper and all of a sudden the TV is out of the dark ages. - more little things: Iron Sheik was champ here and cuts aphis "Iran Number One" promo after the match in the middle of the ring. Just so much more ... Exciting that what you'd see in the old TV show. - I can't stress the role of Okerlund enough. They do the rolling interviews in front of the ring, which had been a standard spot for years, but switching Okerlund for Vince just brings that whole segment alive. I think seeing it all in this context makes one appreciate Mean Gene for being phenomenal at what he did. - they were heavily pushing Victory Magazine on this show, and Iron Sheik cut another promo ostensibly as a "magazine interview" with some goon. - Bob Backlund has a match against one of the Samoans and all three of them are thre plus Albano. After a while, he has had enough and goes back to the locker room to get ... HULK HOGAN!! Crowd goes apeshit. Okerlund puts him over as the star of Rocky III. This seems to have been Hogan's re-debut. Interestingly, Okerlund DOES acknowledge that he's "returning" to the WWF. Big "Hogan Hogan" chant. Poor Backlund, just watching himself becoming irrelevant in seconds. - After that they cut a promo. Backlund mentions that "Hogan has changed his ways, no more hanging out with Fred Blassie". It is really interesting how they acknowledged the earlier run up front like that. Hogan also says "This is a different Hulk Hogan". It's like he did his face turn in 1-second. Backlund's promo style was different here too, he was actually coherent, closer to Mr Backlund promo style than the gimpy mumbling fuck we'd get in 79-81. Obviously he had his head shaved at this point too. After the Hogan thing, there's a Mr Fuji match against jobber Denny Hill. And they keep talking about "the return of Hulk Hogan". It's cool that they bridged it back to his earlier run. - Of course, the debuts of Piper and Hogan on one show would be a big deal, but there was more. The July 83 show was just straight up squash matches for an hour, no angles, no star vs star stuff. This is in marked contrast to that, although one does get the feeling that this was a "special" show. ---- Well, I was really expecting this to be less different from the July 83 show, I was expecting the changes to be more gradual, but the sheer impact of Okerlund, Piper and Hogan is just like a fucking seismic shift in the product. In terms of the actual presentation, Okerlund cannot be underestimated. This was probably the most this TV show had changed in the past 15 years. In one hour Vince Jr brought it crashing into the 1980s. Pretty amazing to see. I'd recommend this to anyone who hasn't see the TV debuts of Piper and Hogan.

How about a transitional champion between Race and Flair? A babyface, perhaps, in the mould of a Jack Brisco.

I have a small question about the USA Network spot that Vince Jr got in September 83. What happens?

All four Andersons.

Bill Apter I believe was banned from ringside at WWF shows for years.

The WWF supports Harley Race continuing as Champion.