JerryvonKramer

What offense did Bret really innovate anyway?

I think ironically though, and this is where It might help if Flair had more "book smarts" as Meltzer might say, The guys Bret was painting as tired and working an old style, like Harley (and by implication Flair), probably did more to change the style of work in the US than Bret or the Bulldogs ever did. I've written at length before about the transition from mat-based wrestling to the heavy bumping, spot and action orientated style that Race and Flair both worked. Ray Stevens would be the innovator, Race and Flair the popularisers. Flair knows this. He talks about it whenever he mentions Johnny Valentine not running the ropes or Dory sitting in a 45-minute headlock. But he just can't put it together and form a coherent argument because that's not the sort of guy he is. I wish I'd been sitting in there with them. Ha ha. ------ Untreated, but it's interesting that Flair thinks he couldn't do anything with Jumbo because I thought they had great matches together. Maybe it's because they were technical affairs and Flair doesn't like that style.

There's different ways of painting it. "Spineless corporate man" or "company man" is one way to paint it. "Loyal soldier who'd go to the wall for you" puts a different inflection on it. Ted came up in tough places like Amarillo and endured working for Watts, the hardest of task masters. And then Vince, also a very demanding boss. Rude couldn't have taken it, and didn't. So who is the more spineless? Who can you count on when the chips are down and the shit hits the fan? There's two ways of looking at that.

Cordial is the right word. Did you like the bit when Flair reacted to Bret's rant about Hogan by reiterating that he's happy that the two of them are now friends. There were some awkward as hell moments right the way through. The one interesting thing about Bret talking about DK was his implication that Calgary was a place where they were innovating offence. I brought this up in the Tag Teams Back Again thread, when they were discussing the Bulldogs. I was a bit disappointed Flair didn't bring his point up about not being an offensive worker, he talked about that with Angle and on that Terry Funk joint shoot (specifically in relation to Bret), but here it seems like all he wanted to do was push the narrative of them having made up.

It did seem like Flair was completely oblivious to the Austin - Bret match.

He did seem to imply that Dynamite Kid was a better wrestler than Flair though. As in "more advanced" or something. That was the implication.

Might be an idea to split this stuff off.

On Flair's show, Meltzer didn't seem as down on watching old stuff as has been made out in the past.

One thing they did say is that he's better on house shows than on TV.

One last rendition of "Get Back" with the entire roster on backup vocals.

So, I had an external HDD die which had both the game and all its files on it, plus over about 1TB of wrestling, and a whole lot of other stuff. So that's it. Hope people enjoyed it while it lasted.

Can you run me through what they are? Bret and Flair seemed to think he has "his character down" and a star presence.

I don't really like that deadly seriousness and don't trust anyone who takes themselves that seriously. I mean, Flair is the legit GOAT and can still have a laugh or even put himself down on occassion, Bret just can't do it. I also got the impression that Bret kind of looks down on Flair. That's so ridiculous to me that it almost makes Bret a heel to me, like an IRL heel. Horses for courses, though, I just don't like the guy.

They actually came to us to see if it was okay as a courtesy. Steven - I forgot you did it too, I thought there were some other guys. Was it OTR or Shake the Ropes? One of those two, guys I don't really know. I thought it was nice that they asked and gave credit when they didn't have to -- appealed to the academic in me, I like citations. I don't know of any other shows doing it in podcast form before us. Naturally, I had no idea about Yohe and co doing it in 93. I'd be interested to see those drafts.

I haven't listened to the podcast yet, but why?No sense of humour, genuinely arrogant, generally seems a bit unpleasant. Not a very likable guy imo.

I've always found Bret a difficult guy to like.

Wow Bret totally buried Kevin Sullivan.

Conrad is a much better second than Alice.

Well he's got Ric Flair's vote.

Looks like it is already out Mick!

Wow, his third guest is his arch-nemesis Bret Hart!

I don't know if you listen to podcasts Elliot, but this is an idea I had before and we actually did a draft here: http://placetobenation.com/where-the-big-boys-play-50-1990-fantasy-draft/ Year was 1990, everyone was a free agent. First show was the draft, second booking the rosters. Rules and talent pool here: http://placetobenation.com/where-the-big-boys-play-50-1990-fantasy-draft-rules/ I believe another podcast did this concept again (with our permission to copy the idea) only the date was later. It might have been long enough that we do another one soon. Will have to see how much interest there is around it.

El-P, since getting the Network I think I've watched a grand total of about 2 shows (Rumble, Mania). I am either going to cancel or seriously put some effort in to make it value, because currently it's money for nothing. Since I'm listening to Sullivan's podcast, I was thinking about maybe starting the Nitros from 1995. Would you recommend doing it?

I don't really like him as a worker, but I love listening to him talk. Have been working through Helluvadeal. Guy has a great mind for the business, and an accent I dig. There's a Sullivan "The Devil in Florida" comp that has been around for years that I've never watched, but I suspect any case to be made for him is going to come from that. Seems more of a out-of-ring character guy than a worker though.

Is there really someone called "Trauma II"! Ha ha!!