JerryvonKramer

Watching the network. Why did I fucking bother?

I will be reviewing all available Bock and Stevens in the Microscope soon, including five singles Patterson vs Stevens bouts from LA on silent film from 70-73. I have this weird idea of doing commentary for them and uploading to YouTube, but it's a bit Rocky Raymond.

Fucking finally!! Don't like breaking kayfabe, but I've been waiting for this to drop for about 6 weeks now!

Did Bret ever have a match with the Macho King?

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Thread needs more Baba,Dory, Brisco, and Race.

Happy Million Dollar Man day everyone!

Can someone explain to me why they like the WM26 match? I've seen it a couple of times and really despise it. Awful. The worst of modern main event style. I find it really surprising how high people whose opinions I respect are on it.

My two least favourite hyped matches of all time. WM26 one especially. I think I gave it **.

I also really really love this match. Is it just me or does it seem like Pat Patterson is one of the most underrated guys around? It's weird because everyone is on board that he's good, but whenever you watch a match of his it's like "wow this is really fucking good". I guess it's either a case of there not being a lot of footage available since his California stuff is all but lost, or most people's memories still are of him as part of the Stooges, but it's always a surprise how good he was in the ring. (also it makes them not putting old (W)WWF MSG shows up on the Network more frustrating since there's bound to be a few gems in there to be found) We pimped him bing on Titans as the MVP of 1979 a year or so ago. He has a string of great ones with DiBiase, Backlund and Patera. I prefer him as a heel, but his performance in that Slaughter feud is also great. Patterson seems like one of the best workers of the 70s to me. A very expressive performer. The trouble is that outside of his New York runs, I don't know if anything else is out there. He doesn't seem to be on the LA/San Francisco footage I've seen available.

I also really really love this match.

Less of a bias and more of a "completely oblivious to".

My list before listening: Terry Funk Dory Funk Jr. Ted Dibase (Sr.) Barry Windham Dustin Rhodes Bob Orton Jr.

I like the continuity angle from 89 where DiBiase had bought the #30 ticket last time but drew #1 this time, and then that feeds right through the match where he goes iron man, suggestions he paid off Savage -- the 3-way with him and Jake is one of the great Rumble moments in my view. And it pays off with the massive pop and the Warrior elimination, which then pays off itself with the Hogan showdown. I like the sort of one-night angles they'd do on PPVs at that time.

I wasn't that hard on him was I? I thought this was one of those shows where I didn't really say that much.

Ted is just one example, so I don't want to get too caught up on him, but the point of this exercise was to get away from "great matches" as the only metric for judging someone. If the question is "where are the great matches?", for Ted after 1988 there are none. If the questions become "how well did he execute a suplex or scoop power slam?" "How well did he take the bump over the top rope?", "how solid were his fundamentals?" "How well did he throw a punch?" Then a different picture emerges. It's a picture that "great matches" doesn't and can't give you. And then you see a guy like Ted in a different -- and to my mind, more accurate -- light. Why "more accurate"? Because a guy with the skils that he had would be a top tier draft pick for any active promotor in that time frame, and accordingly he was thought of as one of the very best wrestlers in the world. He was still a great wrestler after 88, just one who happened to be having **1/2 matches with Virgil and Jake Roberts. This is not all about Ted though, but any wrestler at any time who had great skills as a ring general. "Great matches" is a reductive metric and doesn't give the full picture.

Welcome to the board Down n Dirty, and thanks for sharing your thoughts. This show seems to stir a lot of feelings in people for some reason. I am not sure about Luger vs. Rude to be honest, but there'd be a lot for the ladies to look at in that one! Sexy Lexy taking on Real Man.

I realise that I'm very peculiar on this, and probably one of the more extreme cases on here, but for me it's much less crowd heat and much more the general atmosphere or "world" of a particular promotion. This single thing affects my enjoyment of matches perhaps more than anything else. I'm very happy and at home with certain "worlds". I love the world of Mid South. I love the world of All Japan (70s-90s). I love the world that we cover on Titans (Vince Sr-era WWF). I love the world of 80s WWF up until about 1994. I love the world of JCP. I love the world of GCW. I love the world of WCW up until Hogan arrives in 94. I love the world of World of Sport. I do not love the worlds of Attitude Era WWF, modern WWE, modern New Japan, ECW, or 00s Indie promotions. I'd rather watch mediocre-bad matches or even actively awful matches in the first set of contexts than great ***** matches in the second lot, because the contexts make it very difficult for me to buy into or care about anything or anyone. And by "world" I mean the implied inner universe of the promotion, including ring announcers, commentators, time keepers, authority figures, and the fans that you can see on camera.

I saw "Base Talent" as being a s Yes, the idea of "base talent" was that it was the raw materials of what makes a worker. The things you are talking about are output, which in my way of thinking are either "hidden stats" which can't be quantified (consistency, adaptability, etc.) or else actual matches. Or else they are intangibles. "Importance to the promotion" is after the fact and again getting away from the raw materials I was trying to capture. Not saying those things aren't important, of course they are, but we always talk about them. We typically use the match as the standard unit of analysis, and think about careers in terms of matches where they put everything together. In this thread, I wanted to see if there was any value in discussing what workers are good at, rather than in terms of their career highlights. Why? Because I've always maintained that if you take a worker like Ted DiBiase (just an example) he's better across the board than a guy like Big Bossman -- even if Bossman was having better matches in WWF. Ted's "base talent" stats are just better. And I think that should count for something. However, everyone shit on this thread, so there's no point continuing that discussion.

This Flipp thing just isn't working at all.

My feed starts in one hour.

Do I get Jim Ross commentary with that?

UK people, give me instructions on how to watch this. I have an iPad and am willing to pay some money.

I didn't say S&S was hip. But the point is he's doing his homework. The thing is, (back to wrestling) even if you are missing out on stuff now to an extent "cream will rise", so you'll always be able to seek out what is pimped after the fact. I've said it before ... I think the real reason people watch WWE now is to be part of the instant reaction on social media. It's less about the product and more about being part of an ongoing discussion in the moment.

Why? Pitchfork was very late to the party on them, publications like Fact and GvsB were supporting their music months before.We live in a fantastic era for new music, and thinking that doesn't just make you some transient fan riding the hipster train. With something like PC Music it will almost inevitably age badly as well, so you are missing out by not listening to it when it is part of the cultural zeitgeist. PC Music is like the Attitude Era. Terrible a decade later but a lot of fun if you were involved in it. Track record with him. I always call him out on jumping on the latest bandwagon, his defence is always that he was ahead of the curve. I say he's on the steam train, he denies it. I define cool as digging out an obscure and little appreciated album from 1972, he defines it by being one step ahead of pitchfork. Swings and roundabouts but the point is that it's two distinctly different approaches. Although weirdly, that same friend has followed my lead on film and has now seen about a third of the sight and sound top 100 ... So maybe for him in music it's one way and with film another. But you can see my point ... In wrestling terms, being on the steam train is moaning about WWE booking decisions, getting into the New Japan hype and attending live shows. I'm not condemning that or anyone who wants to do that, but it's a long way from what I do and am about. Lots of people here do both.