JerryvonKramer

If anyone here has actually voted on the PTBN poll ... specifically for Brad ... please let me know. How has this happened? My Jesse Ventura-style conspiracy here is that Brad's votes consist of: Brad, Brad's iphone, Brad's laptop, Brad's iPad, Brad in work, and so on. The deadline for voting will be either when episode #52 (Clash 11) drops, or the second I start leading the poll -- whichever one happens first

This almost certainly does not deserve its own thread, but a passing thought just occurred to me: Has there ever been a more minor on-screen character play a more major role than the photographer from KOTR 93? This man played a giant part in ending Hulkamania in the WWF, something the combined forces of evil had failed to do in the previous decade. By my estimation this makes him the highest impact player in wrestling history in terms of "minutes on screen" vs. "impact". Who else even comes close?

This is one of the best wrestling-related interviews I've ever read. The stuff about the struggle with Turner Broadcasting is really interesting, especially his blocked efforts to get Simmons seen at key sports events and the fact that he was fighting them over the edited tapes. It doesn't explain some of the questions I still have over the booking (e.g. why Simmons was buried in the middle of the card), but it does make me view Watts's time in charge with a little more sympathy for what he was having to put up with there. You'd think being owned by the TV station would give a wrestling promotion a competitive advantage, but in practice they weren't letting him leverage that. Other really interesting stuff: - "I guarantee you before it's over, TBS will hire Hollywood script writers to start writing the storylines for wrestling" -- heh - putting Ole and other "wrestling people" in charge of editing - focusing on the Omni: thought this was an interesting "back to basics / core market" idea that we talked about a bit in this thread - That the first PPV booked under Watts's control, according to him, was Halloween Havoc ... this is a headscratcher. How can the PPVs be "already booked"? Beach Blash I get, I always pegged that as a Kip Frey show in my mind, but GAB 92? That was locked in stone? By whom? Why? It was the NWA title tournament with Watts's big boys on top and going over. I don't believe that he had nothing to do with the booking of it. - The injuries are fair cop, very unfortunate for his plans. I'd love to know what his plans were going in before he knew the internal problems. Still doesn't quite explain how we ended up with the Coal-miner's glove travesty though. - Sting being rebuilt as a "Raider of the Lost Ark type guy" is something he really did well, for which he deserves credit. - The ability of workers to go over the boss's head in WCW was a real problem -- all of the later problems you can see coming as early as this. - I laughed out loud at the idea of Watts being told that he'd have to have Shaorn Sidello on his booking committee - The disconnect and lack of cooperation between WCW and TBS is palpably frustrating, I almost feel frustrated on behalf of '93 Watts. - The idea of weekly critiques is great, I'd love to see what sort of notes Hayes, Ross, Tony or Ole were making. I love the idea of Ole taking a young 2 Cold Scopio through some footage of his last match and talking him through it. - His galiant efforts to stop leaks were interesting to read. - I like that Watts had a very clear sense of Dusty's strengths and weaknesses and how to work with them. - Ole took Watts's position?! There's no talk of Biscoff here yet. This needs some tweaking. Seems like Ole worked directly under Shaw.

Thanks for posting this Loss, will give it a print out and a read through now.

Sirs, what is all this wild talk of putting fruit flavours and -- by jove -- ice in one's tea?!

I agree with this. Their recent Top 50 lists are a hell of a lot more informed than you typically find. They aren't peddling a set script as regards wrestling history either. I'd point to stuff like including the Valiants in their Top 10 WWE Tag teams, and ranking Mr. Fuji & Professor Tanaka above DX. As well as using the word "wrestling" rather than "sports entertainment". It seems like its own little autonomous entity; I've been pleasantly surprised by it recently. Check out this for example: http://www.wwe.com/classics/classic-lists/top-50-good-guys

Just some pre-article hype for my forthcoming (very long, 12,000-word) guide to all of Bob Dylan's albums, but I think you could add Bobby D to the list Kris. Early 60s folkster protest Bob and mid-60s hipster poet Bob and New Morning-era farm-living family-loving Country Bob, and 70s Troubadour Rolling Thunder Bob and Christian Bob and horrible mid-80s coked-out Bob and awesome croaky "wily veteran" Bob are all different beasts. I think because he's so organic and raw, we don't think of Dylan consciously reinventing himself, but if you look at it, he has.

Do you know if Dusty has ever talked about that anywhere in print or in a shoot? If Dusty was booking under Frey too, it looks like almost all his plans were nixed. He really seems like he had his balls cut off.

I should mention that I'll be watching some 1979 St. Louis soon and Brody is all over it. Larry Matysik constantly raves about Brody, so I'm interested to see if there's even an iota of justification for it.

Magnum has really good matches against both Wahoo and Ole Anderson that I can think of. He's also great in this: Ric Flair, Arn and Ole Anderson vs Dusty Rhodes, Magnum TA and Manny Fernandez (Worldwide 12/21/85) One of the best 6-man tags ever. I don't know if he's really overrated. He is great around 85-6, and surely he would have got better. However, I think his potential is probably a bit over-hyped when people start with the Hogan comparisons. JCP would have been in better shape in 87, 88 for sure if he was around, but I don't know if he would have drawn enough to save them. The company was just over-spending like mad. Also, I've always wondered that if the injury hadn't have happened, how long before Vince comes knocking anyway? What would have happened with Hogan still around? An IC title run at best? I get the comparison though.

Also, sorry for taking your thread off-topic Superstar. Always seems to happen in your threads, but you always bring up interesting stuff. Back to Cactus, Bang! Bang! I love the angle where he's sending Harley Race little gifts. Race is such an awesomely grumpy sod during it and it's a super-fun angle that they slow burned.

Who exactly was booking for Watts in 92? All this stuff, doesn't have a particularly Dusty-ish feel. Whose idea was it (Jim Ross or Ole's?) to put all the tag stuff on top on all the big shows? Who loved the tournaments? None of this booking feels like Watts's Mid-South stuff. Who is to blame for it?

Here are the big shows under Watts in 92: Clash of the Champions XIX - Charleston, SC - McAlister Fieldhouse - June 16, 1992 (4,600) Ricky Steamboat & Nikita Koloff (USA) defeated Joe & Dean Malenko (Europe) at 9:53 when Koloff pinned Dean with the Russian Sickle WCW US Champion Rick Rude (w/ Madusa) & WCW TV Champion Steve Austin (USA) defeated Marcus Alexander Bagwell & Tom Zenk (USA) at 7:55 when Rude pinned Bagwell with one hand on his chest after avoiding a dropkick and hitting the Rude Awakening Terry Gordy & Steve Williams (Japan) defeated Larry & Jeff O'Day (Australia) at 2:35 when Williams pinned Larry with the Oklahoma Stampede Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes (USA) defeated Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton (w/ Paul E. Dangerously) (USA) at 11:23 when Rhodes pinned Eaton with the bulldog after avoiding the Alabama Jam WCW US Tag Team Champions Michael Hayes & Jimmy Garvin (USA) defeated El Texano & Silver King (Mexico) at 6:27 when Hayes pinned Silver King with an inside cradle after King came off the top and accidentally hit his partner on the floor WCW Tag Team Champions Rick & Scott Steiner (USA) defeated Miguel Perez Jr. & Ricky Santana (Puerto Rico) via forfeit after Perez & Santana were assaulted backstage Brian Pillman & Jushin Liger (USA) defeated Chris Benoit & Beef Wellington (Canada) at 11:31 when Liger pinned Wellington with a bodyslam and the moonsault after Wellington and Benoit collided in the ring Akria Nogami & Hiroshi Hase (Japan) defeated the Headhunters (Joe Cruz & Bob Cook under masks) (Dominican Republic) with simultaneous pinfalls at 5:12 when Hase scored the pin with a northern lights suplex as Nogami used a German suplex NWA Tag Team Tournament Quarter-Finals: Terry Gordy & Steve Williams (Japan) defeated WCW Tag Team Champions Rick & Scott Steiner (USA) in a non-title match at 15:01 when Williams pinned Scott when, as Scott attempted a belly to belly suplex, Gordy clipped Scott in his bad knee behind the referee's back with Williams falling on top for the win; after the bout, several officials and wrestlers came out to check on Scott's injury - The mega-push from hell for Doc and Gordy already underway. - WCW title not defended Beach Blast 92 - Mobile, AL - Civic Center - June 20, 1992 (5,000) The Junkyard Dog, Tom Zenk, & Big Josh defeated Tracy Smothers, Richard Morton, & Diamond Dallas Page Pay-per-view bouts - featured an opening segment in which Tony Schiavone & Eric Bischoff spoke with Bill Watts on the podium stage in which Watts said Paul E. Dangerously & Madusa would be banned from ringside during the Ricky Steamboat vs. Rick Rude Ironman match; included Jim Ross & Jesse Ventura on commentary; Ventura was escorted ringside before the opening contest by four women in bikinis; featured Tony Schiavone & Eric Bischoff hosting the event from the interview platform; included a beauty contest throughout the show between Missy Hyatt and Madusa and hosted by Johnny B. Badd in which the women competed in an evening gown, bathing suit, and bikini competition; Ventura co-hosted the final competition in which Missy complained her bikini was stolen so she used Ventura's head scarves instead (she didn't really; the pattern was just the same); after Badd announced Missy as the winner, Madusa confronted him and the two went into one of the dressing tents on the stage, with Badd coming out moments later with Madusa's top: Scotty Flamingo pinned WCW Light Heavyweight Champion Brian Pillman to win the title at 17:28 with a knee from the middle turnbuckle after the champion failed a crossbody over the top and hit his head on the rampway Ron Simmons pinned Terry Taylor with the powerslam at 7:10; prior to the bout, Tony Schiavone mentioned Simmons received the key to the city of Tallahassee, FL earlier in the day; after the contest, Jim Ross conducted a ringside interview with Simmons in which Simmons said his goal was to be world champion and he was living proof that it doesn't matter where you come from or what your poverty level is - you can still be a success Greg Valentine defeated Marcus Alexander Bagwell via submission with the figure-4 leglock at 6:16 after dropping Bagwell onto his injured knee WCW World Champion Sting pinned Cactus Jack in a non-title falls count anywhere match at 11:23 with a clothesline from the top rope onto the rampway (Falls Count Anywhere: The Greatest Street Fights and other Out of Control Matches) Ricky Steamboat defeated WCW US Champion Rick Rude in a non-title 30-minute Ironman match at 29:59, 4-3; prior to the bout, Steamboat came to the ring with his wife and young son; fall #1: Rude pinned Steamboat with a knee to the jaw and grabbing the tights for leverage at 7:42; fall #2: Rude pinned Steamboat with the Rude Awakening at 8:39; fall #3: Rude was disqualified for coming off the top with a kneedrop at 9:40; fall #4: Rude pinned Steamboat with an inside cradle at 10:11; fall #5: Steamboat pinned Rude after reversing a tombstone piledriver into one of his own at 17:38; fall #6: Steamboat pinned Rude with a backslide at 20:21; fall #7: Steamboat pinned Rude by kicking off the turnbuckle as he was caught in a sleeper at 29:24 (Ricky Steamboat: The Life of the Dragon) Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes, & Nikita Koloff defeated WCW TV Champion Steve Austin, Arn Anderson, & Bobby Eaton (w/ Paul E. Dangerously) via disqualification when referee Ole Anderson stopped the bout when Arn came off the top with a double axehandle onto Windham after Windham hit the superplex on Austin WCW Tag Team Champions Rick & Scott Steiner fought Steve Williams & Terry Gordy to a 30-minute time-limit draw just as Scott hit the Frankensteiner on Gordy - More Doc and Gordy in last match - WCW champ lost in the middle of the card - WCW title not defended Great American Bash 92 - Albany, GA - Civic Center - July 12, 1992 (8,000; 4,000 paid) The Super Invader defeated Marcus Alexander Bagwell Pay-per-view bouts - featured Jim Ross & Jesse Ventura on commentary, with Tony Schiavone & Magnum TA hosting the event; included Schiavone conducting an interview with Bill Watts, alongside Hiro Matsuda, in which Watts held the NWA World Championship belt and announced a tournament would be held Aug. 6 in Tokyo, Japan; during the segment, Watts announced he had taken off the name of the last champion, Ric Flair, to make room for the new title holder's name; Watts then said he had plans to sign a match between the NWA World Champion and the WCW World Champion to consolidate the belts; featured Eric Bischoff conducting a backstage interview with IWGP Tag Team Champions Rick & Scott Steiner in which they cut a promo on WCW Tag Team Champions Terry Gordy & Steve Williams and being forced out of the tournament; included Schiavone & Magnum conducting an interview with Ron Simmons regarding the upcoming WCW World Title match; featured Bischoff conducting a backstage interview with Big Van Vader & Harley Race regarding Vader's match against WCW World Champion Sting later in the night: NWA Tag Team Championship Tournament Quarter Finals: Ricky Steamboat & Nikita Koloff (USA) defeated Brian Pillman & Jushin Liger (USA) at 19:25 when Steamboat pinned Pillman when the momentum of a crossbody off the top by Pillman put Steamboat on top for the win NWA Tag Team Championship Tournament Quarter Finals: Hiroshi Hase & Shinya Hashimoto (sub. for Akira Nogami) (Japan) defeated Michael Hayes & Jimmy Garvin (USA) at 9:16 when Hase pinned Garvin with a northern lights suplex after Hashimoto kicked Garvin in the face behind the referee's back NWA Tag Team Championship Tournament Quarter Finals: Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham (USA) defeated WCW US Champion Rick Rude & WCW TV Champion Steve Austin (USA) at 19:16 when Rhodes pinned Austin with a clothesline off the top as Austin attempted a piledriver on Windham NWA Tag Team Championship Tournament Semi Finals: WCW Tag Team Champions Steve Williams & Terry Gordy (Japan) defeated Ricky Steamboat & Nikita Koloff (USA) at 21:39 when Williams pinned Steamboat with a running powerslam after ramming Steamboat into the corner NWA Tag Team Championship Tournament Semi Finals: Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham (USA) defeated Hirhosi Hase & Shinya Hashimoto (Japan) at 14:55 when Windham pinned Hase with a lariat Big Van Vader (w/ Harley Race) pinned WCW World Champion Sting to win the title at 17:17 with the powerbomb after Sting struck his head on the steel ringpost while attempting a Stinger splash in the corner; during the bout, Ron Simmons was shown in the crowd watching the match with Tony Schiavone NWA Tag Team Championship Tournament Finals: WCW Tag Team Champions Steve Williams & Terry Gordy (Japan) defeated Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham (USA) to win the titles at 21:01 when Williams pinned Rhodes with a clothesline; prior to the bout, Rick & Scott Steiner came out to confront Williams & Gordy but were sent backstage by Ole Anderson and Doug Dillinger - The insane mega-push of Doc and Gordy continues - WCW title SWITCH relegated to semi-main Clash of the Champions XX "20 Years of Wrestling on TBS" - Atlanta, GA - Center Stage Theatre - September 2, 1992 (500) Ricky Steamboat pinned WCW TV Champion Steve Austin (w/ Paul E. Dangerously) in a No DQ match to win the title at 10:46 with a crossbody off the top after crawling under the ring and coming out the opposite end; after the introductions, 11 year-old Megan Cean of Tulsa, OK was accompanied to the ring by Johnny B. Badd to sing the National Anthem; during the bout, Dangerously was suspended above the ring in a cage; Steamboat wrestled the match with taped ribs after sustaining broken ribs in the NWA Tag Team Championship Tournament (Ricky Steamboat: The Life of the Dragon) Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton (w/ Michael Hayes) defeated Greg Valentine & Dick Slater (w/ Larry Zbyzsko, his arm in a sling after it was broken at the hands of Anderson & Eaton) at 5:44 when Anderson pinned Valentine after Zbyzsko accidentally hit Valentine with his arm cast and Eaton followed with the Alabama Jam; prior to the bout, Jesse Ventura conducted an interview with Hayes, Anderson & Eaton on their new partnership, during which Hayes said they were the combination of the best teams of the 80s - the Freebirds, the Midnight Express, and the Four Horsemen; initial stipulations for the match called for Paul E. Dangerously, in Anderson & Eaton's corner, to be suspended above the ring in a cage WCW World Champion Ron Simmons pinned Cactus Jack with a powerslam at 8:51; Ole Anderson was the referee for the bout The Barbarian & Butch Reed (sub. for Dan Spivey) defeated Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham at 8:15 when the Barbarian pinned Windham with a boot to the face after Rhodes & Windham knocked Reed to the floor with a double dropkick; prior to the bout, Ross conducted an interview with Cactus Jack, with the Barbarian, in which he said he told Spivey to stay home because he had found someone to take out WCW World Champion Ron Simmons and this person knew Simmons better than anyone and then introduced Reed; Cactus joined the commentary team for the bout; after the match, Ross conducted an interview with Cactus, Reed & Barbarian about their challenging Simmons (Reed's surprise return after a year absence) WCW US Champion Rick Rude (w/ Madusa), Jake Roberts, Big Van Vader, & the Super Invader (w/ Harley Race) defeated Sting, Nikita Koloff, Rick & Scott Steiner in an elimination match at 15:17; Roberts pinned Koloff with a roll up at 7:26 after Rude hit Koloff from behind as Koloff ran the ropes, attempting the Russian Sickle; Sting pinned Invader at 8:03 with a facebuster; Scott was disqualified at 11:18 for hitting a clothesline off the top to Vader; Rick was counted-out at 12:28 when, after Rick backdropped Vader on the floor, Rude hit the Rude Awakening on Rick behind the referee's back; Vader was disqualified at 14:20 for hitting a splash off the top onto Sting; Roberts pinned Sting with the DDT - WCW title defended in the middle of the card - Big guns all in final match of the night, WCW champ not one of them Halloween Havoc 92 - Philadelphia, PA - Civic Center - October 25, 1992 (7,000; 4,800 paid) Brian Heffron (the Blue Meanie) and David Lagana were in attendance for the show Erik Watts & Van Hammer defeated Diamond Dallas Page & Vinnie Vegas Tom Zenk, Johnny Gunn, & Shane Douglas defeated Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, & Michael Hayes at 11:03 when Gunn pinned Hayes with the Thesz Press after Zenk hit a superkick; Zenk, Gunn, & Douglas were heavily booed in the match while Anderson, Eaton, & Hayes were cheered Ricky Steamboat pinned Brian Pillman at 10:34 by reversing a roll up after Pillman reversed Steamboat's sunset flip off the top (Wrestling's Highest Flyers) Big Van Vader (sub. for WCW US Champion Rick Rude) pinned Nikita Koloff in a No DQ match at 11:54 with the powerbomb, moments after Koloff missed a Russian Sickle attempt on the floor and struck the ringpost; Vader defended Rude's US title during the bout; stipulations stated Madusa was barred from ringside for the match; following the entrance of Vader, Rude, & Harley Race, Ole Anderson ruled that both Rude and Race were also barred from ringside WCW/NWA Tag Team Champions Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes fought Steve Williams & Steve Austin (sub. for Terry Gordy) to a 30-minute time-limit draw at 30:28; Williams & Austin initially won the match and titles at 28:31 when Austin pinned Windham after a clothesline from Williams but Windham was not the legal man in the match and initial referee Randy Anderson changed the call by replacement referee Nick Patrick WCW US Champion Rick Rude (w/ Madusa) defeated NWA World Champion Masahiro Chono via disqualification at 22:34; prior to the bout, Seiji Sakaguchi and Manabu Nakanishi were introduced in the crowd; following the introductions, Ole Anderson held a coin toss to determine which referee -- Harley Race (Rude's selection) or Kensuke Sasaki (Chono's selection) -- would be the inside and outside referee; Race won the toss to become the inside referee; during the contest, there were chants of "We want Flair" and repeated "Woooo"s; the match ended as Chono had Rude in the STF, with Sasaki asking Rude if he submitted as Race stopped the match for Chono tossing Rude over the top rope moments earlier, onto both Sasaki and Race; after the match, Sasaki fought off Race, knocked Rude to the floor, and then dropped Race with a suplex (Rude's first appearance without a mustache) WCW World Champion Ron Simmons pinned the Barbarian (w/ Cactus Jack) at 12:43 with the powerslam as the challenger attempted the boot to the face; prior to the bout, Simmons came to the ring with Teddy Long and a dozen or more security guards Sting pinned Jake Roberts in a Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal Coal Miner's Glove Match at 10:35 by punching Roberts with the glove, causing Roberts' snake to bite Roberts in the face; Roberts' snake bag was brought out moments earlier by Cactus Jack; after the bout, Cactus yelled for someone to help Roberts as Roberts crawled and staggered his way backstage (Jake 'The Snake' Roberts: Pick Your Poison) - WCW title defense relegated to semi-amin - Top heel Rude going after Chono's title, not Simmons's - Other top heel Vader more concerned with defending Rude's US title than going after WCW title - Other top heel Jake more concerned with Sting and coal-mining than going after WCW title Clash of the Champions XXI - Macon, GA - Coliseum - November 18, 1992 (7,500; 700 paid; 14,000 freebies were made available in the city) Shown live on TBS - featured Jim Ross & Jesse Ventura on commentary; included footage from earlier in the day of the weigh-in for the Paul E. Dangerously / Madusa match, in which Dangerously came in at 188 lbs. with Madusa then attempting to attack Dangerously but was held back; featured Tony Schiavone conducting a backstage interview with Bill Watts regarding the night's card; included Teddy Long conducting a backstage interview with Michael Hayes regarding the night's card and the bounty on Erik Watts' head; featured a video package highlighting the Dangerously / Madusa feud; included Hayes conducting a backstage interview with Dangerously regarding his upcoming match and the fact his arm would be tied behind his back, during which Mike Thor appeared and asked to be paid for the public workout he did with Dangerously on WCW Saturday Night; featured Schiavone conducting a backstage interview with Johnny B. Badd & Teddy Long regarding the upcoming boxing fight against Scotty Flamingo; included Schiavone conducting a backstage interview with Vinnie Vegas, Diamond Dallas Page, & Scotty Flamingo regarding the boxing fight - during which Flamingo was given a pep talk by someone who from behind appeared to be Don King; featured highlights of the Sting & Abdullah the Butcher vs. Bobby Eaton & Brian Pillman match from Starrcade 91: Battlebowl to hype the upcoming 92 event; included an in-ring segment with Ventura & Missy Hyatt in which they drew Cactus Jack & Johnny B. Badd vs. Dan Spivey & Van Hammer to be the first Lethal Lottery bout at Starrcade; featured a musical vignette on the new tag team of Tom Zenk & Johnny Gunn, set to music very similar to ZZ Top's "Legs;" included Schiavone conducting a backstage interview with WCW US Champion Rick Rude regarding his match later in the night against Sting; featured an update on the Ventura Invitational Strongest Arm competition, exclusive to Worldwide; included Hayes conducting a backstage interview with Dangerously regarding the upcoming match with Madusa; featured highlights of the King of Cable tournament matches held to date; included Schiavone conducting a backstage interview with Big Van Vader & Harley Race regarding his participation in the King of Cable: Brian Pillman pinned Brad Armstrong with a clip to the knee at the 28-second mark; prior to the bout, Jesse Ventura conducted a ringside interview with Pillman, on crutches, regarding a recent knee injury that would force him out of the ring; moments later, Armstrong came ringside with Pillman then apologizing to him for his previous actions; moments later, Pillman attacked Armstrong from behind, repeatedly hitting him with the crutch and revealing the injury was fake; Armstrong, after pulling himself to his feet, demanded the match go on as scheduled Erik Watts & Kensuke Sasaki defeated Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton (w/ Michael Hayes) at 6:07 when Eaton submitted to Watts' STF after Watts punched Eaton in the face as he came off the top Scotty Flamingo (w/ Vinnie Vegas & Diamond Dallas Page) defeated Johnny B. Badd (w/ Teddy Long) in a boxing match via KO at the 1:05 mark of Round 2 after DDP filled Flamingo's glove with water WCW World Champion Ron Simmons & 2 Cold Scorpio (mystery partner) (sub. for Robbie Walker) defeated Tony Atlas, the Barbarian, & Cactus Jack in a handicap match at 5:57 when Scorpio pinned Atlas with the 450 splash after Barbarian accidentally kicked Atlas in the face; after the bout, Ventura conducted a ringside interview with the winners with Simmons revealing the name of his partner to be 2 Cold Scorpio (Scorpio's surprise debut) Madusa fought Paul E. Dangerously (w/ Michael Hayes) to a no contest in a 5-minute exhibition match when she chased Dangerously backstage just as the bell rang to end the time-limit; pre-match stipulations stated Dangerously would have one arm tied behind his back but it never was; prior to the bout, a person wearing a protective helmet ran in the ring with Dangerously knocking the person out with his phone, believing it to be Madusa; moments later, he went to give her a kiss and realized it was Mike Thor wearing a wig, with Madusa then sliding in the ring behind Dangerously to begin the match King of Cable Semi-Finals: Sting defeated WCW US Champion Rick Rude in a non-title match via judge's decision after the 20-minute time-limit expired; judges for the bout included Ole Anderson, Hiro Matsuda, & Larry Zbyzsko; Sting applied the Scorpion Deathlock just as the bell rang to signal the time-limit; Matsuda gave the match to Sting, Zbyzsko gave the match to Rude, and Anderson gave it to Sting; after the decision, Rude attempted to attack Sting from behind but Sting cleared him from the ring Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas defeated WCW/NWA Tag Team Champions Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham to win the titles at 15:54 when Douglas pinned Windham with the belly to belly suplex after the champions began arguing and traded punches; after the bout, Rhodes returned to the ring to apologize to Windham, with Windham attacking Rhodes, hitting a DDT and superplex before he was pulled away by referees; after the commercial break, Ventura conducted a backstage interview with the new champions, during which Windham appeared and laid out both with repeated shots with a steel chair - WCW title not defended - WCW champ in middle of the card with midcarders - Tag belts again headline Starrcade 92 - Atlanta, GA - Omni - December 28, 1992 (8,000; 6,500 paid) Brad Armstrong pinned Shanghai Pierce at 7:30 with the Russian legsweep Pay-per-view bouts - included Jim Ross & Jesse Ventura on commentary; featured Missy Hyatt & Larry Zbyzsko drawing the names for the Lethal Lottery; included the announcement that WCW US Champion Rick Rude was sidelined with a neck injury, could not compete in his scheduled match against WCW World Champion Ron Simmons, and that Steve Williams would face Simmons in Rude's place; featured Rude appearing ringside in street clothes and cutting a promo regarding WCW threatening to strip him of the US title if he can't defend it against the #1 contender in January and argued that policy wasn't enforced when Sting, then the world champion, was put out of action with broken ribs; included a pre-taped interview between Tony Schiavone and NFL Hall of Famer Paul Hornung about the significance of his SuperBowl ring and tying that into the importance of the ring which would be presented to the Battlebowl winner: Lethal Lottery: Van Hammer & Dan Spivey defeated Cactus Jack & Johnny B. Badd at 6:51 when Hammer pinned Cactus with a roll up after Badd punched his partner when Cactus argued with Badd over accidentally hitting an elbow drop on him Lethal Lottery: Big Van Vader (w/ Harley Race) & Dustin Rhodes defeated the Barbarian & Kensuke Sasaki at 6:56 when Rhodes pinned Barbarian with a roll up after Barbarian accidentally hit a clothesline on Sasaki on the apron; after the bout, Vader congratulated Rhodes on the win before dropping him with a clothesline Lethal Lottery: Barry Windham & the Great Muta defeated Brian Pillman & 2 Cold Scorpio at 6:59 when Muta pinned Scorpio with the moonsault after Windham dropped Scorpio with the DDT Lethal Lottery: Sting & Steve Williams defeated Erik Watts & Jushin Liger at 9:08 when Williams pinned Watts after dropping him throat-first across the top rope NWA World Champion Masahiro Chono defeated IWGP Champion the Great Muta via submission with the STF at 14:32 after avoiding a dropkick; only the NWA title was at stake WCW World Champion Ron Simmons defeated Steve Williams (sub. for WCW US Champion Rick Rude) via reverse decision at 15:16; the two men originally fought to a double count-out but referee Nick Patrick changed the call when Williams assaulted the champion after the match, drove a knee into his back from the top rope, and had to be pulled off Simmons by referees WCW/NWA Tag Team Champions Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas defeated Barry Windham & Brian Pillman at 20:03 when Douglas pinned Pillman with the belly to belly suplex as Steamboat and Windham fought on the ramp (Starrcade: The Essential Collection) King of Cable Tournament Finals: Sting pinned Big Van Vader (w/ Harley Race) at 17:39 by catching Vader coming off the top and hitting a powerslam; after the bout, Jesse Ventura presented Sting with the King of Cable trophy in the ring, with Sting then cutting a promo on his participation in Battlebowl just minutes away (Starrcade: The Essential Collection) IWGP Champion the Great Muta won the 8-man Battlebowl battle royal at 13:55 by last eliminating Barry Windham; order of elimination: Van Hammer by Steve Williams (5:48); Dan Spivey by Sting via a backdrop onto the ramp (6:24); Sting and Big Van Vader (w/ Harley Race) both were eliminated following a running clothesline by Vader (7:44); Williams & Dustin Rhodes were eliminated as Williams attempted to eliminate Rhodes & Windham (11:14); Windham by Muta via two dropkicks after Windham thought he had won but Muta skinned the cat back inside the ring - WCW title match AGAIN relegated to middle of the card - At least Rude is going for it this time, but hit with injury - Tag titles again above world title on card - Everything takes a backseat to Battlebowl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Expect a rant on WTBBP down the line from me about Watts's booking in WCW around this period. I still have no idea what the hell he was trying to achieve with all this stuff.

After looking this up, the NWA title is gone in this period, but Watts does weird shit like putting his boys Doc and Gordy on top. So WCW feels like a secondary title even when there's no other top title, it's really weird.

Wasn't the NWA title still lingering around at this point? Always struck me that Simmons or the WCW champ in general never headlined big shows in 92. On reflection, it's treated a bit like "the world title" today. In 93, this would flip around, but in 92 the WCW title in general is kinda buried.

Both Bret and Shawn had matches with DiBiase as tag guys. Come to think of it, both of those matches would probably make "Ted's Top 10 Matches in WWF" if such a list were made.

Morton - Flair of course. Eaton - Flair in 90. Did Haku have a singles matches as an Islander?

Shit, Strongbow has another good match? I thought it was just the Valentine one.

I quite like this idea for a thread and don't want to see it sink. I've been thinking about Flair and --- even though this sounds cazy -- I reckon Dustin Hoffman could have done it back in the day. While they look nothing alike, I reckon Hoffman has some facial similarities with Flair: They both have big noses, and they both have that kinda buck tooth. Dye Hoffman's hair, put him in a robe and have him bulk up a bit and I reckon he could pull off Flair. This would have to be a younger Hoffman though. Aside from my fantasy casting of Hoffman, though, I'm honestly at a loss for who else could play Flair. Very difficult casting. I don't know why, but I like the idea of Guy Pearce as Lex Luger. Luger: The Movie could probably be quite an interesting film -- his college and football days, breaking into wrestling, the Brody match, the dark days, Liz, the rehab, the spinal stroke and remarkable steps to recovery ... Got a lot of stuff for a good film.

Actually, when I was going back through The Wall to find a closing track for this ep, I sort of rekindled my love for the Floyd a bit, I really enjoyed it. It's been about 10 years since I last listened to them properly. I forgot how much I'd played their key albums into the ground when I was a teenager, and the time for re-evaluation might have come. Forget Inoki, this week it's all about "Hardcore" Dominic fucking Denucci!

Same deal as why Mr Perfect is talked up. Memorable gimmick from a time every casual fan can remember. Jake also gets this rub. Only reason guys like Beefcake don't is because they had years of Keith and the like running them down. If you had a memorable gimmick AND were built by the internet as being a great worker = all time great.

Why were Demolition relegated to JTTS status around that time? Surely they would have been better foils for the Harts than Rythmn and Blues at that point?

jdw, please do not kid yourself even for a second that the reason I can't stomach a discussion with you is because of your amazing powers of argumentation. Are you kidding me? It's because you're an insufferable and tedious prick. But don't tell me, I'm even wrong about my own reasons for disliking you now? I love that, tell this son of a bitch that he's the human equivalent of nails on a chalkboard or that you'd rather take a power drill to your head than carry on speaking to him and he comes back with "no actually you're wrong, and I'm right, the reasons that you don't like me are as follows ... blah blah blah ad nauseam ad infinitum". Does your pomposity know no bounds? You are little more than a troll at this point, and a really fucking boring one. On a different day, without you around, I probably would have gone to watch Rude vs. Warrior again and maybe found that yes, Warrior did more than I'd given him credit for. Or maybe, I'd have found that no even after re-watching I still think that Rude's selling is carrying the day. I would have happily done that. Anyone who even knows me a tiny amount knows I would have done that. But you systematically kill my desire to discuss anything, you make it 100% less fun, so I didn't bother. I have to put you on ignore now for the good of the forum. There's no other option; even if I leave something -- and the clue was in not saying anything for 4 days -- you keep taking potshots and finding new ways to be a wanker. What else can I do now but block it? I think you are properly mental to be honest. And I hate the idea that this shit is spoiling what is the best place on the internet to talk wrestling.

Everything about Demolition being in the game -- and that version of Demolition -- smacks of a last-minute decision to me. I also can't imagine why else Crush has that reverse neckbreaker animation. Did he ever do a reverse neckbreaker? The roster has quite a mid-1990 feel, but Slaughter's inclusion in the game with unique animiations suggests late 90 to me at the earliest, assuming they knew what they were going to do with him. That would explain the prominance of Earthquake and Bossman too, who both had a big 1990.