JerryvonKramer

Who do you think were the last guys who did it well?

Episode 6: http://placetobenation.com/letters-from-kayfabe-6/ Allan and Parv deliver more hot cheesy action from the sack. 1. The Mailbag: Virgil's title shot at Bret Hart / Joe Fowler / The Coach 2. The Event Center with JT Rozzero: SNME #28, taped: 9/18/90, aired: 10/13/90 3. The Long Topic: The management decisions of Bobby Heenan To write in to the mailbag, tweet @allan_cheapshot or @JerryvonK Follow along on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS1QYjCSmymh7s-iGFTbGeK2bvEjYteaq

Have you seen Fujinami's matches vs. Go Ryuma from the late 70s NJPW?. Completely different from the NWA/70s All Japan style of working headlocks, armbars for extended periods of time. Same with Hashimoto/Hase matwork in the 90s. I've seen a good bit of 80s Fujinami and 90s Hase and Hash. I didn't see a striking difference. Fujinami has a few more flashy counters depending on the opponent, Hash does more sudden movements. Hase just seems like Arn Anderson to me, if Arn did Ura-Nagas. Would love someone to break down the differences, would be educational. Not just for me but I'm sure for many readers here. Incidentally, whatever style Inoki does is the worst, most boring possible style.

Interesting stuff. But let's take specific guys. Let's say Choshu and one of his students like a Hase. Aren't they just NWA style too? Working a limb, etc? I feel like your typical sequence might go ... Side headlock takedown, into a headlock, other guy goes over into a head scissors or body scissors, transition into a bridging sequence from there, etc. Or, sometimes it is more leg-based: hamstring snap, Indian deathlock, fall back, half crabs, Texas clover leaf, Boston crab, figure four, etc. Or sometimes you get the arm-based sequence, Steamboat especially: arm drag, arm ringer, maybe into a hammerlock, maybe into knee drops on the arm, into an armbar ... Is that "NWA style"? If so, that's also pretty much the style of Kawada, Kobashi etc. right.

I don't really understand what NWA old-style matwork is or how it differs from matwork in AJPW or NJPW. Anyone want to talk through it? To me they are all the same. From Dory, Brisco, Bockwinkel, etc. to Jumbo, Fujinami, and other 80s Japanese workers to the 90s guys and beyond. All seems the same style of matwork, similar moves, similar ways of working the holds, etc.

Oh shit, I forgot Dory's 81 match vs. Lawler, probably better than his match vs. Mike Graham (I actually think it is better than Terry vs. Lawler). Also the 82 singles match vs. Bruiser Brody that is a surprisingly awesome brawl.

Dory Funk Jr. of the Year

Anything that looks painful and gritty, and which is well sold.

The Rock vs. Steve Austin (3/30/03) Rock is heel here. Austin super aggressive in the opening exchanges: working with real intensity. JR has come alive for this one. It only took him about two hours to warm up. Austin sends Rock into the steel steps. Stomps by Austin. Back suplex by Austin now. He really seems to have his working boots on here. Irish whips by Austin. Awesome clothesline. Austin jaws with Hebner, and while his back is turned Rock hits a chop block taking out the knee. And again outside the ring. Rock smashes the knee on the announce table now. And again. Keeps attacking this leg. Wraps it on the ring post. Smashes knee on the mat. Rock ensures he takes time out to jaw the fans. Sharpshooter by Rock. He stays on this leg. Rock puts on Austin's jacket and mocks him. Austin comes back. Double collision spot. Whoever was the road agent on this, has done an absolutely superb job of laying this out so far. Thesz press by Austin, and the rights. Big elbow. Cover gets two. I think this match with Rock as heel and Austin as face feels totally right, the psychology is just spot on for it. Flying clothesline by Rock. He's still wearing Austin's jacket. Stunner by Rock. Cover gets two only. They haven't done the finisher swap spam too much tonight. Hard right by Rock. Five or six of them, but misses the last and Austin hits his own stunner, cover gets two only. JR is doing a much better job of calling this. He was totally switched off earlier. Spinebuster by Rock cuts off another stunner attempt. People's elbow. Cover gets two only. Rock Bottom now. Cover gets two only. And again. Rock is frustrated. He might try to do stuff other than finishers maybe? I dunno, I think he's going for a third one. Third Rock Bottom, and that'll do it. Up until the finishing stretch, I thought this was really well laid out and worked by both guys. Finish seemed oddly one-sided to me, Austin put Rock over big time here. I mean he virtually killed him. I'd have liked the legwork to have factored into the finish a bit more, and actually for a bit more offense from Austin. Three Rock Bottoms in a row without any sort of reply seems excessive. Solid match with sound psychology though. And Austin still sells that leg walking back down the aisle. Really interesting he went out jobbing clean as a whistle right in the middle. True pro. ***3/4 Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle (3/30/03) Pretty insane that this match is ALSO on this card. I mean there's a stacked card, and then there's a stacked card. I have to say that setup angle I watched on SD is just super-duper weak for a WM main event. I mean just a rubbish rubbish angle compared to the other angles coming into this mania. Okay, I'm excepting a shitload of suplexes here, and I'll be sad if I don't get them. I feel like I have zero memory of this whole Mania, but I definitely watched it smoking weed with a sock over the fire alarm over the house of a friend whose folks were so rich they actually bought her a house to live in during uni, and they had Sky. This was my key method of watching PPVs during this time, but those girls liked smoking a lot of dope and drinking red wine, and had zero interest in wrestling, so it was just kind of on in the background with only me really taking notice in the corner of one eye. I got to see more in the summertime when I was back at my folks. Number of amateur style takedowns to start and Brock works an armbar. Back suplex by Angle. Brock pops back up. Sick spot where Angle Germans Brock onto the turnbuckle now. Awesome. Drives Brock onto the barricade. He's injured his midsection. Back suplex by Angle. Cover gets two. Snap suplex. Two only. Bow and arrow by Angle. I just want to say quickly that generally Cole and Tazz have dicked all over JR and Lawler on commentary tonight. Tazz brings a lot more insight on commentary. Brock tries to elbow out of this, but Angle positions his body to cut him off, using his bodyweight well. Now almost a rear-naked choke by Angle. This is some good storytelling here, Angle has wrestled a very smart match using his knowledge and experience to stay on top of the bigger man. It's good stuff. Brock starts a comeback but Angle cuts him off. Dumps Brock. Rolls him back in. Spinebuster by Brock buys him some time as both men are down. Knees by Brock. Charges in the corner. Belly to belly suplex. And again. Cover gets two. German suplex by Angle. A second. A third. Four. Suplex city bitch. All of those are psychologically sound since the German attacks the injured mid-section of Brock. Brock tries the F5, but Angle counters with the ankle lock. Half crab. So attacking both that leg and the injured ribs now. Tazz is very good at getting over the basic strategy during this, shades of Coach Heath from Florida wrestling. Angle eats a backdrop over the top which gets Brock some time to recover. Shoulder charges in the corner by Brock. But Angle nails a release German suplex. What an equalizer! Brock goes 360 on the bump! Angle slam! Two only. F5! But Angle kicks out. I'm not surprised, Brock hasn't had much on offense. Angle sneaks over for a surprise ankle lock right in the middle. Angle drags him to the middle and grapevines the leg. He manages to get to the ropes. F5 by Lesnar now. Brock seems to get smug about something. Doesn't cover. Goes up to the top. Shooting star press! Angle evades! Cover by Angle gets two. Brock seemed to land on his neck. A third F5 by Brock hits though. And that's three. The finishing stretch was a bit finish-spam heavy for me, but the shooting star press from such a big man was cool to see. Thought the match up until the final quarter was really good, great action and sound pyschology from Angle in general working the match as a former Olympian in a manner that made near-perfect sense. The story told was compelling, Brock nearly had to kill himself to win, and yes we got a metric fuck ton of suplexes. I thought this was a great selling performance from Brock, and they earned the embrace at the end. Very very good match, but from the first F5 on lapses too much into WWE cliches to be a classic, especially as Rock had just given Austin three Rock Bottoms. Finisher spam was running rampant around this time. ****1/2

Why's it shocking Grimmas? You presented an entire series of AJ excite with me and our ratings were seldom that far apart. Same with Chad on WTBBP and same with Pete on Titans. Half a star here or there. I don't get why it's "shocking" whenever anyone is in agreement with me these days.

Triple H vs. Booker T (3/30/03) Flair accompanies Triple H here. I really hate this venue. I think open air stadiums lose the sound too much and it feels like there is zero heat. Music also up way too loud. Flair is still not that old here, and looks closer to late WCW Ric, which is kinda weird and cool to see again. Elbow and collar tie up and I swear someone lets out a "boring" chant, seems a bit unfair. Flair chops back and forth. Booker gets on top after a while with punches and kicks. But then eats a backdrop followed by a turnbuckle shot to the outside. HHH is consistently called "The Game" here. There's a lot of talk of Booker's background which was the angle going into this. He came from the streets and spent some time inside. HHH works a heat sequence now. Methodical pace. Neck breaker. Cover gets two. Punches to the head. Turnbuckle shot. Booker T comes back. Arn Anderson Spinebuster by HHH cuts him off. Big running elbow by HHH, some impact on that. Chokes by him now. Booker T with chops and a DDT to turn the tide. Chop suey. Spin kick by Booker. Flying forearm. Knee lift. Sleeper out of nowhere by The Game. High knee. "Shades of Harley Race" says JR. Face breaker by HHH. Booker turns it around again. He gets a nice meaty sound out of his chops does Booker, considering those gloves he wears. Cover gets by Booker gets two only. Misses his scissors kick and lands on the top rope. Tumbles outside. Flair does a shinbreaker on the ring steps! Best spot in the match so far! Indian deathlock and a strange one by Triple H, unusual version. He falls back. Dory Funk Jr style. JR is taken aback and keeps going on about how he hasn't seen anyone use this move in years. Nice to hear him actually mark for something, he was more alive going on about that Indian deathlock than he was the for the entirety of Shawn vs Jericho. HHH goes for a pedigree but can't get it. Booker rolls him up for two. Trips with a stomp on the knee. Decent psychology. Awesome sick looking kick by Booker, like the heel went right on the back of HHH's head ... Shades of American History X! Very sick looking spot. Flair gets on the apron. Booker smacks him down. Triple H goes for a superplex, can't get it. Punches him down. Flair on apron again. Somersault from the top on HHH by Booker. That got a "holy shit" chant. But Triple H pulls out a desperation pedigree win. Match lacked flow and seemed rather disjointed. Triple H was working the leg but that stuff seemed just to be filling up time and went nowhere really. Booker T had some cool spots here, but he couldn't really put anything interesting together when he was on top. All seemed a bit stop-start. Highlight was JR marking like a little girl for that Indian deathlock, but otherwise this was nothing of note. Flair's shinbreaker was cool. **1/2 Vince McMahon vs. Hulk Hogan (3/30/03) Terrific package for this, mixing in real life, and 20 years of history. Feels special in a way that nothing else on this card has so far. This was a "dream match" available in 2003 and fair play they went for it. The sort of thing WWE can pull off when it wants to. Even through the acoustics and music, I can hear the crowd for Hogan here and this crowd has been generally quiet so far. Maybe they close the roof, I dunno, but they are audibly much much louder here than they were for the other matches. Vince comes out now. Stacked. Psycho eyes. Hogan beats on McMahon to start. Clothesline. Vince tries to cover up. Chokes from Hogan, crowd with a Hogan chant. Stomps from Hogan on Vince. McMahon is able to block the turnbuckle shot. Charges Hogan in the corner. Knee lift by him. Elbows. Choke. Punches. Vince is nasty! Sends Hogan down. Knee drop on the arm, right on the elbow joint. Hogan sells big. Just a quick time out here, Hogan's selling of this arm for Vince is better than any single bit of selling Shawn did in the entirety of that Jericho match. Just flat out better selling. More emotion, more pain, more sympathy. That's Mr. Wrestlemania right there. Vince cranks on this arm. Wraps it around the ring post. And again. Fuck Vince is actually pretty good! Been a while since a watched a match of his. Greco-Roman knuckle lock now, but Hogan wins the test of strength. This crowd has really come alive now. This goes on for some time. Hogan powers up, but Vince cuts him off and dumps him. Smashes him on the barricade. Clubbing blows by Vince. McMahon flexes. Superb heeling. Grabs a chair. Misses. Hogan comes back. Posts Vince. Grabs the chair. Cups the ear. Chairshot. Crowd pops. Vince is busted open now. Blood all over his face. Rights by Hogan. Vince bails. Hogan gets another chair. Right across the spine. Cups the ear, and the crowd is pumped. Goes for another chair shot and Vince ducks, Hogan nails the Spanish announcer! Ha ha. He's got colour! The Spanish announce guy is busted open. Vince gets control of the chair. Smashes Hogan. Goes under the ring for a ladder. Sets it up. Hogan on the announce table. Stomps by Vince. He sets the ladder up between the two announce tables. Smashes Hogan with the announce monitor. Hogan busted open now. Vince goes up the ladder. Cups the ear on top. Ha ha. Massive boo. Leg drop from the ladder on top of the announce table. Vince you crazy bastard! Both men down and bleeding. Back inside and cover from Vince gets two only! And again. Vince looks manic. Goes under the ring and gets a pole. Stalks by the apron like a shark. Hogan with the low blow! Roddy Piper is here! What's this about? Kicks McMahon. Grabs the pipe. "Come on Junior, come on get up!" Great line. And of course Piper nails Hogan and bails. Vince literally slithers over to Hogan and covers. Two only! Vince throws the ref out of the ring for his "compassion" and grabs the pipe. But McMahon is staggered. Another ref runs out, but it seems he's a crooked one. Leg drop by Vince but cover gets two only! Right by Vince and Hogan no sells. He hulks up. Points the finger. Blocks the punch. Beats on the ref. Big boot. Cups the ear. Crowd is absolutely ecstatic. Drops the leg. And again. Cups the ear. Third leg drop. And gets the three. Terrific double juice brawl with some "Wrestlemania moment" nonsense thrown in plus some memorable high spots. The absolute triumph of psychology, character work, crowd control, and sound structure to create a great match. Easily the best thing I've seen on this card so far. Just totally sound wrestling psychology 101 booked to virtual perfection. Post-match Shane walks out and shares some looks with Hogan and then checks on his dad. **** This mania was ridiculously long and ridiculously stacked as far as cards go. Another tea break for me. I might as well review the rest of it now.

Because there was enough good stuff in the heat sequence from Jericho, along with his performance in general for that rating. But it's clear they weren't going for that, but for a much more epic 5-star affair. And on that count it failed utterly. I guess stars have some context around them too. I thought Shawn's performance was horrible, as indicated, and that the finishing stretch sucked, but it wasn't utterly without merit. I toyed between 2.5 and 3, since I'd just given the tag 2.5 and it was clearly better than that, I went with 3. Still, as an "epic" match-for-the-ages deal, it sucked. One of the most disappointing matches I've reviewed so far in this thread.

Lol, confused as fuck during that one I was. I think I missed the intro of Guerreros. Why were Team Angle on the outside and just coming in to break up pinfalls? Weird shit. Corrected review with proper info.

The sheer amount of Angle and Shawn love on the latest Sqaure Circle Gazette radio show has made me want to check out some random Angle and some random Shawn. Might as well use that Network subscription for something. Just doing searches and picking out stuff that looks interesting. Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar (3/13/03) This is from Smackdown. Lesnar jumps Kurt to start. The Stan Hansen jump-start. Early F5 and cover, but no Brock is confused. Something is wrong. Team Angle are down the aisle. What is going on? "Kurt" seems to switch with the real Kurt who is sneaks a pin. Brock beats the crap out of the fake Kurt Angle, who is apparently Eric Angle. Weird booking here. I want to watch a proper match out of these two. Looks like I'm Wrestlemania 19 bound then, I might watch a few matches from this. I can barely remember the card at all. When it happened I was 19, hiding the fact I was a wrestling fan from certain uni friends while secretly reading Scott Keith almost every day, and spending a shitload of my student loan on Coliseium Home Video tapes ... Which we now know would fetch the sum of £26 thirteen years later. FML. Chris Benoit, Chavo Guerrero, and Rhyno vs. Eddie Guerrero and Team Angle (Haas and Benjamin) Benoit and Rhyno vs. Guerreros vs. Team Angle (3/30/03) Seems odd to see Benoit and Eddie buried in this six man triple threat tag match with the titles on the line. Seems to be a stip where the tag titles are on the line too, even though it's three on each side. Both of them look absolutely terrific here. Everything looks crisp, clean and awesome. Structure is weird here, as basically we have Eddie vs. Benoit with support from the other four guys breaking up pins and so on. Makes me wonder why it wasn't just a singles match and a separate tag match. Some of the work was mechanically exceptional here, but this felt super inconsequential, like a Raw or SD main event randomly stuck on a WM card. What a waste of talent. I guess the card was super stacked already. **1/2 Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels (3/30/03) This stadium feels so heartless and empty. As Shawn walks out with the confetti canon it feels like he's doing it in a vacuum in inner space. Just a consequence of the acoustics, I'd think, but there's zero noise audible from the crowd. I will also say that very little of Shawn's charisma and character work are natural here. Don't wish to come across as super critical, but there's zero that says to me "the man" in anything he does. Comes across as inorganic, and try hard. Some guys have it, some guys don't. He feels like he doesn't and it doesn't matter how loud the music is or how many fireworks they pop. Jericho's character work during this entrance, with his generally puzzled look, is not only much better, but also more or less sums up what I'm thinking when I see this. As an aside, Lawler is so bland and unnatural on commentary, and JR sounds tapped out to me also. How did anyone think these two were the best commentary team? I'm not sure if I'd take them over Sean Mooney and Lord Al at this point, not even exaggerating. At least those two would make me laugh or say some stupid shit. JR and Lawler have truly sucked during this entrance. Something feels like it's just *not* happening for some reason. Almost like the occasion is so big that it loses atmosphere. Weird. The commentary sounds canned like off a video game. Side headlock takedown into a headscissors by Michaels. Arm drag by Jericho, JR name checks Steamboat. Someone should tell him there's about 300 Luchadores with a better arm drag than that, ain't that right One Man Punch? I'll never let that go y'know. Back to the headlock for Shawn. Into a hammerlock. Hip toss. Single leg takedown by Jericho. Pretty damn scientific opening. Headlock by Shawn still. Shades of Don Muraco. Elbows out by Jericho. Massive slap by Jericho. Michaels dumps Jericho and he lands by the announce table. Baseball slide by Michaels. Flying crossbody by Shawn. Jericho with a heel kick. There's something about Jericho's subtle character work that is really upping the stakes in this match. It feels like it means something *to him* and so therefore the match means more in general. But it's despite the setting and presentation and despite Shawn's generally empty performance thus far. Some big Flair chops by Jericho. Crowd dutifully woos. Goes for the bulldog, Shawn blocks. That bit of action seemed pedestrian and telegraphed. I feel like I sound hyper critical, but I'm not meaning to be: that bit of action was really poorly worked. And it's on Shawn, he telegraphed it too heavily. Could see him positioning himself. Took me out of the moment. Michaels works on the left leg of Jericho. Match has had so little flow so far. Very disjointed-feeling to me. Jericho cuts off the attack on the leg and Michaels hangs over the second rope. Michaels goes to skin the cat but ends up taking Jericho out with a headscissors to the outside followed by a plancha. Sluggish action. Walls of Jericho on the outside now. Just no flow or psychology or fucking anything to this thing so far. Lower back of Michaels injured now. And Jericho charges Michaels into the ring post on that lower back. Okay, that's good. Jericho also remembers his leg injury and shakes it out. Nice touch. Springboard drop kick from the top by Jericho now. Side suplex. Nice attack on the lower back. Vertical suplex. This match has taken off now Jericho is on top and in quite a major way. He's focused this attack on the back. Backbreaker! Jericho's character work is also really very good. He knows how to work a heat sequence, his jawing his effective. Very little of Shawn's selling or bumping during this has stood out in any way, it's made by Jericho's move selection and pacing more than anything, with a sprinkling of character work. Reverse chinlock now but he's got the knee in the back as he does it. Shawn punches his way out, rake of the eyes by Jericho cuts off the hope spot. Whiplash. Michaels starts his comeback. Inverted atomic drop. Backdrop. Moonsault. Roll up. Series of nearfalls here. Really hasn't drawn me into the drama this match, Shawn is sluggish as hell. Northern lights suplex by Jericho. Backslide power up by Michaels. JR's commentary has flat out fucking sucked here, so flat and boring, sorry fans of his, but fuck JR in 2003. Lawler adds nothing. Jericho starts to get frustrated as Michaels kicks out of the lionsault. Walls of Jericho now. Crowd wakes up. Can the showstopper make the ropes?! He can. ZERO drama. Inside cradle gets two for Shawn. Butterfly backbreaker by Jericho, swank move! Cool! Jericho goes to the top, hits an elbow. Jericho starts cranking for sweet chin music. And he hits it! #TerriblemodernWWEtropes. Shawn with a sloppy crossbody from the top. Slugfest. Walls of Jericho by Michaels now? No, it's a catapult. Cover gets two. Jericho back with a shot to the lower back. Good strategy at least. Jericho goes for a super-back-suplex but Michaels reverses. JR: "this could be a turning point in this match up". Seriously this is one of JR's worst ever calls this match. Wake up Jim! Please say a single thing that doesn't sound like a pre-recorded cookie cutter comment. Jericho goes for a superplex, but Michaels reverses and dumps Jericho on his face. Randy Savage elbow from Michaels. And now "adrenaline" makes him forget every single bit of pain or close-to-deathness he had because it's much more important to wind up SWEET CHIN MUSIC. Given he was at death's door literally seconds ago, I'm having a hard time believing this. No real acknowledgement of the lower back here, or of any sense that he's been through a war. But he misses! Walls of Jericho again! Can Mr. Wrestlemania make the ropes? The drama ... Oh once again it is completely non-existent. Fucking dire stuff this. Michaels hits a savate kick out of nowhere. Both men down. Michaels gets an arm over. Two only. I want this match to end now, it lost me a long time ago. Fucking CRAP. Flair flip by Michaels off an Irish whip in the corner. Rolling cradle gets three for Shawn. Left a sour taste in the mouth this. There was the suggestion for a while of a great performance here from Jericho. His character work was very good. His heat sequence on the back was good, and there was some good long-term psychology there. Shawn flat out sucked in this match. Sluggish, woeful positioning. Timing all over the place. No structure or flow to his portions on top. Non-existent character work. And a fucking terrible finishing stretch devoid of any sense of drama or excitement. Really way worse than I thought it would be. All of it is underpinned by an awful call by JR, surely a career low for him. Just so lacking in anything approaching real emotion. Poor for what it was trying to be. *** Gonna get a cup of tea to get the taste of that out of the mouth. More Mania 19 to come soon.

Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama (6/8/00) From NOAH. Akiyama looks cool. Kobashi looks tired as I think he does after about 98 in general. Mat stuff to start. Kobashi with a headlock worked with some vigour. I want to take some time out to say how sexy Akiyama looks in the all white stuff. Kobashi starts busting out the strikes. And things get manly. Running knee from Akiyama, shades of Jumbo. Things go outside. Massive reverse knife edge sends Akiyama over the railings. Powerbomb outside by Kobashi. Nothing exceeds like excess as someone once said. Stalled vertical suplex back in from Koabshi, perfectly executed. Cover gets two. Kobashi works a hold that is ripping across Akiyama's face, nasty as hell. There's no such thing as a resthold when you work as big as that. Complete awesomeness. Chop and a knee lift. Stomp to the gut sends Akiyama over. Abdominal stretch worked as if he's going to rip Akiyama's head off. I never saw IRS do one like that. A fucking full nelson now. A full nelson?! Kobashi is dominating here. Chop sends Akiyama down and back on with the full nelson. If only Bulldog and Warlord could see this they'd know what a great one looks like. Akiyama tries the jumping knee in the turnbuckle but bounces back off Kobashi like Mr. Perfect in a trampoline factory. Kobashi blocked it and came off like Superman. Kobashi goes for a suplex but Akyiama slips back and hits a low low drop kick nailing Koabshi in the shins. Fucking nasty and perfectly executed. That's a phenomenal transition right there. A+ transition. Akiyama goes to work on this leg now. In with the sharpshooter. Crowd is firmly behind Kobashi. He tries to reach the ropes, but Akiyama cuts him off, slips into a crossface type position. Ankle lock sort of move now. Looks like Kobashi has picked up a shiner on his left eye somewhere along the line, it looks closed shut. Maybe it's just his generally puffy eyes, but seems more swollen than normal. Baseball slide on the injured leg by Akiyama. Bearhug, strange move selection there. Allows Kobashi to hit a side suplex and the sleeper. Sleeper suplex! Couple of exciting nearfalls now. Half nelson suplex by Kobashi. Cover gets two. He's still selling the leg, eat your heart out AJ Styles in TNA! German suplex from Akiyama gets two. Some epic struggle now, as Akiyama tries to get to the ropes. Crowd is really into this, as am I. Akiyama blocks a chop, then blocks a lariat, then blocks a suplex attempt before throwing one of his own, and a cover. One of the most exciting nearfalls I've ever seen! Fucking brilliant. Kobashi has injured his lariat arm now too. Akiyama is almost dead from the Herculean effort it took to get that cover. Kobashi fires up again , goes for the lariat, Akiyama blocks again, Northern lights suplex. Ura-Nage. Cover gets two only! Another suplex variation now. Some sort of submission hold. Did he get him? Kobashi submitted? Some random guys hit the ring and try to beat on Akiyama but he sees them off. Who was that? A fan or some fat jobber? Who are all these wimpies? This was an amazing match which had it all. Consistently great work from Kobashi, Akiyama brought great psychology, and structure to proceedings, and they told a fantastic story. I did not see that finish coming at all. No reason to give this anything less than the full five. *****

Bull Pain vs. Soul Taker (some time in 1999?) This is from a promotion called KAW, and took place in a women's prison in Memphis. It was of curiosity to me cos I grew up watching Prisoner Cell Block H as well as a UK series called Bad Girls. It's a setting that held some interest for me in general. Soul Taker has sort of a Dr. Doom look. Bull Pain comes out to AC / DC. Pretty hilarious stuff as Bull heels it up and riles the women in the crowd. One of them does some huge DX chops at him, ha ha. Bull flips the bird at a whole section of the inmates. The crowd work from him here is really something to see. DDT by Bull out on the floor. Soul Taker has had virtually nothing of this match. Pretty good study in working the heat from Bull Pain. Powerslam by Soul Taker, poorly executed. Bull takes a tumble. These women in the crowd are absolutely hilarious. Bull tries to sit on one of them. Ha ha. Commentator says "that's probably the most contact she's had with a man in a while", my god. Chair shot by Bull. And another. More heeling it up from Bull. DX chops are running wild in the crowd. Bull gets the cover and beats down Soul Taker in what is basically a squash. Highly entertaining stuff, worth a watch.

Jack Brisco is pretty good at selling nerveholds, Martel also. Basically a lot of wild spasms to get over the pain. Most people just lie there and maybe cry out in pain a bit. Think it's on the seller to make the nervehold mean something. The worst matches for "restholds" I've ever seen are Don Muraco vs. Pedro Morales ones over IC title. Fucking woeful.

The nerveholds are one of those things that are really painful in real life but really suck in the context of watching wrestling. Killer Kowolski at MSG in the 70s, or the Samoans or Great Kabuki. Truly some of the most boring wrestling I've ever had to sit through, and the nerveholds are half of the reason.

First of all, many many congratulations for making it to the big 100. When you look across the podcast graveyard, so many have fallen and so many never make it as far as this. And I'm glad you guys have, it's an achievement for sure. As for this episode, I enjoyed it. However ... my word! You guys really really REALLY love Shawn. I didn't even think of him for this at all, do you really think he's a promo on the level of the other guys who were discussed? One of the things I find most baffling is how Shawn has inspired this view where people are sitting around and agreeing that he's this great all-rounder and somehow comparable to a Ric or a Funk or even an Eddie. Just so weird to me. Angle is another guy who didn't really occur to me, but I thought the arguments put forward for him were actually pretty good. In fact, I agreed with a lot of the takes on this one, apart from the HBK lovefest.

Probably should know my position though which isn't "Shawn sucks at wrestling" it's only "he's not in GOAT discussion". And I don't think Bret is either, which mainly boils down to neither of them having GOAT careers like Flair, Jumbo or whoever. He's tier 2 at best. I don't know if that would lead to a great debate or not.

If any of us were more self-aware, we probably wouldn't do any podcasts period.

Conrad's become too aware of the hype and too self aware in general, fitting in a way that he's "representing the internet".

Ted apparently was a real ladies man, when he talks about his Christian stuff he always says his vice was women. Sherri also seemed to play up fancying him. I think he used great shampoo. Great beard shampoo, oil and balm too. I can't agree that WWF has never had a great commentary team.

Next week we're taking a pretty in-depth look at Bobby Heenan's entire run, so we hope to get into a lot more of this stuff with the other managers in time. One thing I've been wondering about is what was the connection between Jimmy Hart and Canadians? He had Bret Hart, Dino Bravo, "Canadian" Earthquake, Rougeaus ... he was "the Mouth of the South", so why was he consistently poaching talent from north of the border?

Looking back, I feel like you'd probably have the best time with Sherri. Liz was kinda boring. Would she be fun to hang out with? Also, I don't like how she just scampered off with Hogan in 88. And possibly also with Ric in 92 [citation needed]. I also feel like Missy would be annoying. Sherri, maybe she'd get moody or demanding once in a while, but for the most part, she was pretty good to her men.