WingedEagle

Exactly. Didn't look back on their prior shows when it came out, because it didn't sound markedly different from their regularly reported numbers.

Best I can do is that its felt like an even more dramatic version of Punk/Cena when Punk had the belt -- Cena was closing out most TV's and PPV, and while Okada was closing out most before the G1, Tanahashi's matches always felt bigger and seem to be the bigger draw. The guy's the ace over there right now and while they've booked Okada as though he belongs on that level (before some questionable, if predictable calls in the G1), he's just not there yet.

However, Also, Finally, So which is it? Do you want to troll or do you want to say Tanahashi's strikes suck and I don't know better because I haven't fought your daughter? I also don't want to troll. Which is why I'm going to ignore this point and not include what I initially typed. If you think most indy wrestlers that you seek out in all corners of the world are better than Hiroshi Tanahashi, we should just agree to disagree. Yet in the same breath: If I'm missing the point here, correct me, but it sounds like you do enjoy guys stiffing the hell out of each other and can't tolerate it when on the same show someone else fails to bring their strikes to that level. Maybe I'm lucky in that after watching Goto/Shibata/Ishii I can then catch a Tanahashi match later in the night and not find that it exposes anything other than good wrestling. I couldn't agree more. But this is you arbitrarily choosing what offense you find cool and calling what you don't trash rather than an objective analysis of said offense or merely stating that it isn't for you. No issues if you don't want to watch much NJ. But what you've described above is someone who's watched all TV main events, and the PPVs either partially or in a couple cases almost completely. That doesn't sound very thorough for someone looking to rank the top 500 wrestlers in the world. Again, the point here is not to tell you to spend more time watching wrestling. But that sounds roughly like a couple hours of NJ every month, give or take a bit (August probably heavier due to the G1). Is that enough to have fully fleshed out opinions on the roster?

Moving this here from the Sasaki thread -- Let me get this straight. The match was a true classic in your eyes, yet only one of the participants had anything to do with it? That kind of statement can probably stand on its own quite strongly, but let's flesh it out a bit. Let's assume we both find the structure of the match stellar -- the body part work, transitions, the absence of any pinfall attempts until the finish. Since you think the match was a classic, I assume you think Suzuki did a masterful job of selling his leg. I know I did. But if Tanahashi's offense was really that poor, how is this match a classic? If Suzuki was selling dragon screws, elbows to the knee and other offense so preposterous that it looked absurd, is the match really that great? If Tanahashi is ignoring Suzuki's offense, not selling his arm at all and constantly working his comebacks as though he didn't sustain any damage, despite crisp and believable offense from Suzuki, what is so fantastic about the match? I don't see how you have a classic where one guy is in your eyes simply avoiding crapping himself. I can see pointing to Sasaki and that style as a forerunner of some of the Goto, Ishii, Shibata, et al. style that's out there, but what does it have to do with the matches put on by Tanahashi, Suzuki, Okada, Naito, Kojima, and just about every other heavyweight?

Definitely quite the statement. Looking back on ECW years later, the nature of their product was such that the matches/angles/stories all kind of blended together, with the Lawler/Cornette shows at the Arena arguably the peak. I don't remember looking back quite that fondly on this but you definitely have piqued my interest.

I've got to rewatch a bunch of this. I crapped on PG-13 at the time because I didn't know them, they came from Memphis and didn't fit what I wanted ECW to be. In other words, for all the right reasons. So yeah, I owe their run another chance.

Sounds great. Glad to see someone is laboring today. To keep it on point, I'll be avoiding doing my best Kensuke while the wife tries to get me to watch Scandal, and then disc 26 of the '92 Yearbook.

This is going to be fun. Maybe later today I'll look at it from a full ballot perspective but a couple quick thoughts for now. WOTY -- I don't know if anyone is drawing enough in Mexico to make a difference as far as WOTY goes, but it seems like you've basically got Cena, Bryan (last quarter could put him over the top) and Tanahashi. I'm a big fan of Okada but at this point he feels more like someone having great matches holding Tanahashi's belt while getting his seasoning. But everyone understands who the top draw is. Most Outstanding -- Bryan & Tanahashi are my 1-2. Tanahashi has more top-shelf big matches, but I give Bryan the edge for quantity based on putting out great matches almost every week whereas Tana was able to save his for the monthly PPs plus G1. MOTY -- Incredibly tough this year. The best I've seen stateside were the 2 Summerslam main events. My favorites in Japan were Nakamura/Sakuraba from the Tokyo Dome, the Tanahashi/Okada title change, as well as Tanahashi/Ishii and Nakamura/Ibushi from the G1. LA Park vs. Dr. Wagner also belongs in the conversation. Shout out to the Shield, as a few of those TV 6 mans probably rose to MOTYC level, but simply aren't going to get that kind of love when there are at least clearly 2 superior matches in the promotion this year. But for a few months they were killing it.

I've talked about Tanahashi's offense in detail before and can't imagine how anyone could think it was good. The fact that a lot of the same people who slam Cena for his offense, praise Tanahashi is even more befuddling. I'm not a fan of the long chop exchanges either, to the point where I was often viciously smeared by puroholic's in the mid-00's because I dared question the sanctity of those exchanges. Having said that I am a bit miffed about how what Sasaki was doing is all that different from what someone like Ishii does. I like Ishii better and think he's a much stronger worker on the margins, but I also assume if someone liked a ton of the G1, they probably really liked something like Ishii v. Makabe (which I liked a good bit) and I don't see how that was all that different from a high end freelance era Sasaki match. I'm a bit confused. You love Cena. I've got no problem with that, but what part of Tanahashi's offense is so terrible vis a vis Cena's? The fact that his strikes don't look like they'll concuss his opponent? You also recently touted the slapfest in Cena/Bryan at Summerslam as a highlight. I agree that that spot can be overdone, and personally found it crossed the threshold of ridiculous in Ishii/Shibata, but outside of Kojima matches where its one of his signature spots (which the crowd goes wild for and thus more than justifies it for me, especially given its hardly a high risk spot), where is it overdone these days? Otherwise, I'm not sure where that kind of contempt comes from. On the recent WC pod, you mentioned you haven't exactly followed NJ that closely. Unless you're simply opposed to someone who's not throwing faux-MMA strikes, maybe go back and rewatch some of this stuff. If you want Frye/Takayama from your strikers, then you're probably going to dislike most pro wrestling these days. With good reason. I've got nothing against Sasaki. He's a guy who's produced some very good matches over his career but otherwise hasn't exactly stood out much over his career as an exception career. Hell, your nemesis Tanahashi may have produced more classics in the last 2 years on his own. He just hasn't rattled many brains.

This afternoon I watched the LA Park vs. Dr. Wagner Jr brawl from the May TXT. Initially it feels like a top 5 MOTYC but I'll know that for sure once I look back on some of NJ's best with a fresh perspective. I'm not comfortable putting it above either main event from Summerslam, but I'll be damned if this wasn't a sick, violent spectacular brawl. I'd encourage anyone who hasn't checked it out to do so. I don't keep up with lucha regularly, basically catching some of the more highly touted matches as they pop up, and can confidently say that you can go into this one cold and it shouldn't impact your ability to enjoy it at all. Beyond that, I need a little help from folks on the finish -- Black Terry clearly awared the third fall and match to Park, even after counting him down. What's the story here? Is it building to something with Terry/Wagner? A tag with Terry/Park vs. Wagner/Santo or something similar? I recall talk about a mask vs. mask match at one of the big bullring stadiums, but haven't checked back in the WON yet to see where that stands. Either way, KrisZ or somebody, hook me up -- I need to get involved in anything else going on with this!

Make that 4 PPVs -- I also got Starrcade, but almost immediately wished I didn't. Apparently tried to block it out of memory as well.

I ordered 3 PPV's that year -- Barely Legal, Summerslam and Survivor Series. I know the WWF was on fire post-Mania but still remember the build for this show over the summer and especially following the Stampede with just about every match having such a tremendous focus heading into the show. The HF matches underneath plus the main event which utilized the guest ref stip in the build, match and fallout about as well as you can. Still probably have the show on VHS. Loved it.

This definitely could've been a lot more. You had the crowd going one way and the match going another. Would've been quite the scene if they worked what was given to them.

Wow. This year's G1 alone had more very good to great matches than I can recall over the course of Sasaki's career.

Haha fair enough. Would it kill him to hang out with some peers?

Still no comments on Jerry's wingman there? Or are we just that desensitized to it?

Nice, really looking forward to this.

Political reasons were the Sonny Onoo / Hardbody Harrison suits at the time.

Is this basically taking the place of PWO Radio?

Wow that great? Hoping its in the mailbox when I get back from vacation and don't have to wait until Tuesday.

I don't really see why there's some special case for Brody to be honest. Fans were hot for the Road Warriors. Fans were hot for Ultimate Warrior. Fans were hot for Sid. Fans were hot for George Steele. Fans were hot for Brutus Beefcake. Fans were hot for Ice Train. What's the big difference with Brody? Only one as far as I can see: he had a lot of influential friends, backstage pull and Meltzer was high on him back in the day. 5) A whole generation of fans basically only heard of him instead of seeing him I think this, plus bonus points from the Apter mags, is the key point. People who regularly watched domestic wrestling during this era simply didn't see him. Now that people who care are getting to go back and get the chance to see what was there its simply not that impressive. That's really the difference for Brody vs. the Warriors or Warrior. They had national forums where people were able to compare what they heard versus the actual meat.

Mission accomplished. Only question for me is when. Thought the podcast did a great job setting the table for the lucha set.

Can't it be both ways? Flair/Jumbo from '83 was a classic to my eyes when I first saw it a year ago. On the other hand, just about everything I saw of Brody on the set was garbage, but I can accept that people then were hot for it. Doesn't the same type of argument hold for Dynamite/Tiger Mask nowadays? I'm well past the point on Brody -- everything I've seen tells me he was trash, but some crowds were definitely hot for him, if not for his abilities.

El-P, I feel like I owe you a hug. We all do. Get some coffee and a long nap after this bender.