Jimmy Redman

I absolutely despair for the day that Dean Ambrose doesn't have "shitty offense". He's a fucking lunatic babbling crack addict, what exactly about him makes you think he's in control of his own body? Or that what he needs is more wrestling moves? We're lucky that he remembers how to do any moves at all and doesn't just eye gouge and bite people's noses off. I swear to God I saw someone on another board say that what Ambrose needs is to mat wrestle more. TO MAT WRESTLE. Like seriously what the fuck. There's that conversation going on in the Sabu thread about how Sabu's style, his botches and recklessness are the whole point of him and adds to his charm. To me this is the same thing. Ambrose is supposed to be a crazy lunatic, he should damn well wrestle like one. It may not make for "good matches" in a way that pleases you personally, but fucks sake. Ambrose's problem is that he's stuck in WWE in 2016, the land of constant TV rematches with sterile non-storylines. He can't just go brawling all over the place, he can't fully portray something wild and out of control when he's boxed into the house style of "repeat your signature spots every match". He can't really let loose on the mic, which is his biggest strength. He's trying to be crazy while moving down the monotonous production line that is WWE programming, which makes crazy impossible.

TNA under Russo was hideous in its portrayal of women, even during the times when they were doing good stuff in the ring.

Basically that. I couldn't count the number of times a random undercard woman like, say, Alicia Fox, has flitted between the face and heel sides on an almost weekly basis. Not because her character turned, but because they needed a woman to work a match on this show and they didn't even care enough to notice whether she was a face or heel. Anyone would do and they didn't even have to bother explaining it, because it's the women and no one cares. I think it's less "women are insane so let's deliberately book them like psychos!" and more that if someone stops to ask "Why are the Bellas acting like heels this week when they're supposed to be faces?" the answer is "Women amirite??" and that's the end of the thought put into it.

November 2015 - September 2016 (or whenever he comes back) is and will be an interesting study in "How would WWE cope if Cena broke down tomorrow?" It's a question that has been asked a lot since the moment he became their only full-time star.

Cena had to expose himself as human one of these days I guess. Oof though. Even with his reduced role, his star power is conspicuous when absent, and it makes the top of Mania all the more thinner.

Shamelessly stealing the idea from Chad's thread, because that and Loss' post on the Joshi greatest hits made me realise that this is what I need for certain people that I want to cover my bases with. So for the following guys I'm asking for 5-10 of their best or most necessary matches to watch. Nothing is too obvious. I have seen things from all of them and liked them, but I don't really have a handle on what their greatest hits are, so it's hard to really get a sense of them overall or know where to place my focus down the home stretch. A sentence of context a la Loss would be marvellous. Jun Akiyama Shinya Hashimoto Shinjiro Ohtani El Satanico Negro Casas Pirata Morgan Fuerza Guerrera Blue Panther Rick Martel Harley Race Bill Dundee (non Lawler division)

I don't believe this happened. I can believe that a staff writer would have had a hard time dealing with Hunter or been intimidated by him. I can believe that Hunter (along with a lot of top guys) would only care enough about the night's script to check if he was winning or losing his match. I can believe that a guy with the sway of Hunter successfully argued to have the finish of a match changed between first draft and the show. I can believe that a lot of kernels of truth went into constructing this story, but the story itself sounds incredibly far fetched.

Yeah, hiring standards have clearly changed, even in just the last two years. The idea of guys like Samoa Joe, Generico, Moxley, Kevin Steen, PAC, etc. and etc...let alone major Puro stars like KENTA, Devitt or Nakamura being signed up by WWE as big deals would have sounded ridiculous like five years ago, certainly beyond a "lol they'll be buried" way, let alone ten. And in turn, the money WWE would have offered to them (standard developmental deals, like the one AJ rejected ten years ago) and the ceiling they would have predicted for themselves wouldn't have made it worth it to them anyway. Remember the old Johnny Ace-era "don't sign anyone under 6' and 230lbs" memorandum, and what the roster looked like back in OVW/FCW days, and how far the Paul Londons and Ultimo Dragons of the world got in a pre-Punk world. Things are different now. The success of Punk and Bryan on the main roster opened up WWE's eyes to hiring from the top indies again, and the success of NXT convinced them to go nuts on outside talent AND treating them as important coming in. They're now offering big money and special deals to these guys. They're building a touring brand around them. And the last two Manias were ended by Bryan Danielson and Tyler Black. Loss the answer you're looking for is that they offered AJ a developmental deal and he turned it down to stay with TNA.

Yeah, that. Wrestling isn't a real fight. It's an artistic representation of one, with it's own internal logic and narrative norms. In wrestling, if something is supposed to have hurt, you have to demonstrate in some way that it hurt, or else there's no cue to the audience. Now there's not one way to sell and "selling by not selling" can absolutely be a valid storytelling choice, but when you get into "well but in real life your knee can pop in and out willy nilly or hurt for no reason so there's no need for wrestlers to sell within the consistent standards of selling in wrestling" ...you're entering onto a slippery slope.

What a time to be alive. I'm more pumped than I have been about wrestling news in a while, all these years if there was one guy that I wanted to see in WWE it was always AJ Styles. I'm stoked that it's finally happening.

Yeah the part where Sheamus hit the Brogue Kick and Vince sat there paralysed and didn't make the count for no apparent reason was hilarious. No idea what went wrong there. Roman also had to wait an age before Steph's music hit.

Reigns can beat Hunter at the Feb PPV to get the Mania title shot and win the belt back there. From Brock. I don't see what the Mania title match is otherwise, unless they do Brock vs Rock for the belt or something.

OK, that's pretty cool.

Yeah that is a laughably high estimate of NXT's reach. There are only a millionish Network subbers and not everyone with a sub will watch NXT. Having said that, there's always the smarky, NXT aware guys in thethe front rows of TV tapings, especially in a place as smart as Brooklyn. The last time WWE was in Brooklyn Sasha had barely debuted on Raw, and that hardcore crowd chanted "WE WANT SASHA" all weekend, off the back of her NXT run. Less than six months later that same crowd couldn't give a shit about her and chanted "BORING" during her match. What changed to make them stop caring about her? Her ability? Hardly since she had another MOTYC in NXT in the meantime. Or maybe it's the fact that WWE have done absolutely nothing with her in these six months and their excitement at seeing NXT Sasha on Raw has been killed, because nothing has changed and all the girls are in a muddled angle going nowhere. To the question of overcoming that with work, I'd ask you to consider, of the things Sasha has active control over, what about her performances has really changed or got worse? She's the same physically, has all of her moves as far as I can see, she does the same heel schtick when she's in control, she has good finishing sequences...I guess my question is what could she do differently in the ring? Her problems begin and end with her matches having no purpose and no heat.

I think in the case of women's wrestling in WWE you have to acknowledge the higher degree of difficulty in getting a crowd into a match that they don't care about. WWE crowds are predisposed to not give a shit about women's matches, because they've been trained by the company not to, that they're the bathroom breaks. And it's going to take a lot more than "Divas Revolution" lip service to change that. Men don't have that same handicap, even when met with apathy. Crowds expect a guy like Daniel Bryan to go out there and have a good wrestling match. Even at a time when he's not over as a character to the masses, there's still some understanding that he's a "good wrestler". They are predisposed to see it and acknowledge it when they do. It's not out of the realm of the norm for a small, male worker to get over in the ring in WWE. It's a lot harder for a female worker to do the same, because crowds aren't predisposed to see it or acknowledge it. They're used to the women being the bathroom break, having short matches that aren't supposed to be "good wrestling". It's hard to overcome that kind of ingrained audience training, even if you have a solidly worked match that should get over.

I think it speaks to the limitations of the WWE main roster as bookers and writers more than anything on the part of the girls. Sasha and Becky were thrown out on Raw to have a 15 minute match for no reason, with no stakes, and no really discernible character motivation from anyone involved. Neither of these girls are over on the main roster, because main roster crowds have been given zero reason to care about them. Why WOULD the crowd care about the match? If they had a year to rehearse that match in training it STILL wouldn't have gotten over any better in that building. That's why it's not the fault of the girls. Physically there were a few flubs but I mean there are those flubs in almost every match, I didn't find them particularly egregious. And there was also a lot of good stuff in there, in particular the finishing sequence which I thought was really great, they hit a LOT of twists and turns at a high pace and kept me guessing on the finish until it happened. This reminds me of when we had that big discussion about the girls when Sasha blew up six months ago, and I said something about how when a guy with indy or now NXT cred gets called up to the main roster, is given no character or storylines or booking help and thrown into meaningless midcard matches, people tend to take the view that "he's a good worker being held back by their shitty booking". But when a girl with NXT cred gets called up to the main roster, is given no character or storylines or booking help and thrown into meaningless midcard matches, people tend to say "well she's not that good after all since she's so shitty on the main roster". It happened to Emma, then Paige, then Charlotte, and will now even hit Sasha and Becky. I'm sure it will happen to Bayley when she goes. I wouldn't be surprised if even Asuka wasn't immune. Girls, like guys, don't suddenly become shitty wrestlers overnight. Girls, like guys, need some semblance of help from booking if their matches are going to have ANY heat whatsoever. Girls, like guys, can't wrestle meaningless matches in a vacuum and have it look the same as when they are actually featured and protected and over and have storylines. Girls, like guys, can only do so much with chicken shit. The problem is not with the talent level of Sasha, or Becky, or really any of the girls. We know what they're capable of. The problem is with WWE.

To me it does. Like I said losing the Streak seemed to move him over the line from "present" to "past". The Streak made him relevant as a top guy in modern WWE, even though he's 100 years old, because The Streak was the biggest title in wrestling. Now that it's gone there's no stakes to his career. He doesn't want titles, he doesn't really have personal feuds, they can't play on his humanity and ageing like other older stars because of his character. He has nothing to fight for anymore. So when they wheel him out it feels like...wheeling him out, if that makes sense. He just comes in, does his shit to keep the crowd happy, and that's it. He feels SO much more like a nostalgia act now than he did pre-WM30. But again, that might just be me. Don't get me wrong I don't think it's a tangible, money losing, "don't use him anymore" thing. I'm still happy to see him, and I legitimately loved his Summerslam performance. But it feels like all the wind has gone out of his sails as an attraction.

I nominated him and I'll probably end up voting for him. I was racking my brain trying to think of anyone I'm familiar with that I could possibly consider who hadn't been nominated yet, and now the more I think about it the more I like his case. He was part of two of the best WWE tag teams of the 00s decade in MNM and Miz & Morrison. MNM were a great team that you should all look at for the tag team ballot, they were great working heels and have a slew of good to great matches with Rey/Batista, Londrick, the Hardyz, etc. Miz & Morrison were more out of the ring great, they were entertaining as hell and I don't ignore that stuff oout of hand (by the by, they were probably the first WWE act to use their internet presence to get over as an act, years before Zack Ryder or anyone else did it). And they did actually do a lot of good work in the ring. There's that Yang/Moore ECW match, I really enjoyed their series of matches with the Colons on SD, and then end of 2008 stuff on Raw with Rey/Bourne/DX. They were another really good, effective working heel team. He had Punk's first great WWE match with their ECW Title switch in 2007. And just generally a LOT of great TV matches over the years from 2007-2011. He was never given a main event push or had a lot of big PPV matches, so if that stuff matters then he's not for you, but as a midcard mainstay he was consistently having good matches for years, and his best stuff is actually pretty damn good. He was part of the crew that turned ECW into the workrate show in 2008, then part of the "New Smackdown Six" crew in 2009, so there's a certain volume of good to great matches on a weekly basis there. And I think his case is more of a 'Great Match Theory" case than one of breaking down his abilities. If you look at him analytically, he's got that goofy, gymnastics style of moving and flipping, he went through that period of having goofy, non-hurty offense, and he's incredibly wooden facially and in promos. On paper he's a flippy do spot monkey with no charisma. But in reality he was far greater than the sum of his parts. As a heel he was good at bumping and stooging and taking guys shit, and also knew how to be a dick while showing off with flippy offense. As a face, I mean he's no Hogan but he did have a kind of understated babyface charisma, not the kind to get crowds chanting but the kind that made you want him to win. He had some fire in the ring when needed. And he did have goofy, flippy offense, but a lot of it was really pretty, and he could also knee people's faces off and the like. All of which, again, combined to make for a surprisingly deep list of good matches. Best singles matches: vs Jeff Hardy, Unforgiven 2006 vs Jeff Hardy (Ladder) Raw 11/06 vs Punk, ECW 9/07 vs Miz vs Matt vs Finlay, ECW 7/08 vs Matt Hardy, ECW 8/08 vs Bourne, ECW 4/09 vs Edge, SD 6/09 vs Punk, SD 6/09, 7/09, 8/09 (they had a really good series over this period) vs Jeff Hardy, SD 7/09 vs Rey, SD 9/09 (one of my favourite TV matches ever) vs Jack Swagger, SD 4/10 vs Sheamus (Falls Count Anywhere) Raw 9/10 (their whole feud was quite good) vs Sheamus (Ladder) TLC 2010 (one of the best singles ladder matches in company history) vs Miz (Falls Count Anywhere) Raw 1/11 vs Drew Mac, Superstars 11/11 (just before leaving) I've caught a couple of his LU matches and he looked...exactly the same, but someone else will have to help with those details.

So just as a preamble, I have such wrestling fatigue - literally - at this point that I can barely sit through a ten minute match without nodding off, let alone anything longer, PARTICULARLY something in a style that I'm largely unfamiliar with. Puro juniors matches are not my favourite thing in the world, and I keep trying to watch Liger matches in a kind of "eat your vegetables" way, without ever having really "got" him. This is all to say that the fact that I am sitting here at almost 1am in the morning, having just sat down and watched two half hour Jushin Liger matches back to back, and I am wide a-fucking-wake...is unexpected to say the least. I had never seen a Samurai match in my life before I'm pretty sure, so I don't really know what I was expecting from him here, but I can say that it wasn't him being a fucking asshole rudo from hell. He was great in this, from the hot, hate-filled opening with the mask ripping and the bottle shots, to then being taken over and putting up a fight, but just gradually dying because once he woke the dragon, this shit was over and the question was merely how long it would take. I get the feeling that this performance of his is an exception, which is a shame because he's great here and I'd like to see more of this Samurai if such a thing exists. Liger I am starting to appreciate more and more. I think on the whole it's just a matter of adjusting my own expectations. Going into the juniors scene quite blind, I see this cartoon character in a crazy mask who is the anchor of a juniors division and my instinct is to expect pace, more pace and highspots up the wazoo. Where instead he (and they) basically just works like a smaller heavyweight, with some dives sprinkled in. Once I got past that expectation and started to see him more as simply an ace of a slightly smaller division and not a spot monkey, I've started to get him a lot more. And I can see how he matches up to the classic babyface aces, guys like Misawa, or Hijo del Santo, or even Cena. Liger absolutely nails the aura, just the gait of an ace. And here we get someone willing to test him, to try his luck, but that only awakens the anger in Liger and you just don't fuck with that. This match fucking rocked, basically. I've never enjoyed a 90s juniors match so much in my life. In fact the only other one I enjoyed this much was the other match I watched tonight, Liger/Otani 97, which was also tremendous. So yeah I am certainly turning a corner on Liger, which I wasn't sure was even possible a few hours ago.

Brock Lesnar.

Taker definitely loses something without The Streak. I feel like he does anyway. I think it sort of pushed him over an invisible line between "eternal superstar who is an integral part of Mania" to "old man Taker coming back for another short TV run to no consequence". The Streak gave him meaning, a reason for being there, at least for one major match a year, and lately that's all he'd been doing, so thus everything he did was important. Now his annual Mania match means substantially less, and his sojourns throughout the year feel more like nostalgia runs than him being a member of the active roster. And I say this as a HUGE fan of his work, and with a mother who is always happy to see him. It's not that crowds aren't happy to see him. But it's just that he has no stakes anymore. He's become another touring nostalgia act. The Cena Mania match, for example, has about a hundredth of the importance that it would have if Cena beating the Streak and/or turning heel to do so were on the table. As it is, it could still be done, and still be done well, but it's not what it could have been with those stakes at play.

John Morrison/Hennigan/Nitro/Mundo http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/25681-the-miz-vs-john-morrison-wwe-monday-night-raw-010311-falls-count-anywhere/ http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/21820-hardy-boyz-vs-mnm-wwe-royal-rumble-012807/ http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/21871-cm-punk-vs-john-morrison-ecw-on-syfy-090407/

I don't think it was too soon with Miz, per se (he was pretty hot as a midcard act at the time), but his main event push was extremely mismanaged. Firstly they gave him his title run during Wrestlemania season, and once Rock came back it all became about Rock and Cena and Miz looked like a total afterthought in comparison. One of the first things I would have fixed about that period was giving Miz the belt after Mania where he wouldn't look like a teenager next to The Fucking Rock Coming Back. There was also a lot of bad presentation going on with him where they tried too hard to make him look badass. He'd be so serious and do these long beatdowns on Cena or whatever and it was just...not The Miz. But again he was swimming upstream trying to look credible next to Rock and Cena, which goes back to point one. We all loved the Lawler feud for ourselves, but I think it also didn't help to establish him on top that he could barely beat a 60 year old announcer. Ever since 2011 I've wondered if Miz ever really had a shot at being a main event guy. Whether there's a ceiling for a guy like Miz who could talk his ass off, have this effective annoying heel character, get heat, all of it, but at the same time not come off as tough in any way. I'm not sure if it's just my personal bias, but I've seen other people express it, but Miz just doesn't come off as being someone who fights other people. He's big and muscley enough so it's not a size thing, he's just wholly unintimidating. And there are other wrestlers who come off like that, but they're mostly confined to comedy or lower card roles. It's hard having no credibility and trying to be a legitimate main eventer. And I think Miz worked tremendously well as the US Champ/upper midcard cowardly heel, who would talk shit and do skits and get his ass beat but cheat to retain the title. That works, but it works much better on the midcard level. At the world title level it is cheapening. Honky Tonk wouldn't have worked as the WWF Champ, and Miz has much more in common with Honky Tonk than Flair, to use an example of a heel world champ. I honestly don't know if it's something that could have been overcome or harnessed with Miz with better booking of his reign, or whether it's just chemical and he was just never meant to headline. In terms of today, Miz is one of a long list of guys who feel burned through already due to the mismanagement of 2010s booking. He COULD have a world title reign, but that feels like more of an indictment of how far the title has fallen and how inconsequential the product is (in the sense of "well if we can have Sheamus, Miz isn't much different") rather than that it would be a good or effective idea.

Dude I was the sole Trish Status voter before it was cool!

Bret Hart: 1. Bret Hart 2. Melina