MoS

Don't think there is too much of late 96-mid 97, which is when he was truly finding his feet and exploring his character. Most of the stuff on YT is the greatest hits compilation when he became the biggest star on Earth.

So many things that Austin did were so innovative at that time for modern WWF, you have to give him a lot of credit for going out there and seizing his opportunity with both hands and making it count. I remember when he was once cutting a promo, and the mic went out, and he made what would have been an embarrassing gaffe of production into a great scene when he just straight-up turned and said "You're gonna give me a piece of equipment that works, son, or do I need to come down and whoop your ass?" Going back and watching him find himself and his character week by week has been a really fun experience.

I was at Mania 13. I remember Austin's promo during the pre-show, when he said, "Bret, you keep talking about getting screwed, well I'm not bringing a condom to the ring, just a can of whoop-ass", or something like that. The buzz from the crowd after that was so great. That, the pop when he unwrapped the chair from his ankle and hit Bret with it, and the drama of the final sharpshooter were the moments where I really realized WWE had something special. Unrelated, but how vicious was the audience hate for Rock? Bret has claimed in his book that all the boos and "Die Rocky Die" chants were done by a handful of ECW supporters who used to travel to every show and boo him. Of course, Chicago has a reputation now, but I do not know if it was considered a smark city in 97 as well.

Yeah, pretty much. No one in their right mind thinks that he is De Niro in acting skill and talent - ironically, his movies are actually better than many of De Niro's recent flicks - and no one really even wants him to do something different. That said, action heroes have in the past at least tried to do something different; more intimate, more emotional. The Rock did sort of do that with Pain and Gain and his bit role in Be Cool, and they were not very successful, so I do not see him trying to break the mould too much, at least not in the near future.

HHH might hate Rock, but Rock is a genuine Hollywood superstar at a time when star-power in Hollywood is at an all-time low, and is also extremely loved in internet circles for stuff like lip-sync battles. Meanwhile, even HHH is not deluded enough to not realise that WWE might be the lowest they have been in popularity and buzz since the dark days of mid-90s. He will be begging Rock to come visit as much as he can. Really, how many times Rock turns up will be on Rock.

Jingus, this is off-topic, but what book is that? World War 1 and the propaganda around it fascinates me; it is never discussed as much as WW2, but in many ways, it was the more miserable, more terrible war.

Well they didn't really have to do much on that because Batista was more than willing to try. I thought they didn't break up after that? I seem to recall reading that it was why Morrison's push was aborted; Vince lost respect for him because he thought a "real man" would have fought Batista for that instead of just forgiving his girlfriend.

Jesus, that's probably more than Austin did in his best year. Is Cena actually outselling Austin at his peak in merchandise?

Has there ever been a case of the company trying to break up a real-life couple? I recall they were not too happy with John Morrison and Melina, but I don't think they tried to break them up.

It would have been more okay if commentators and the presentation in general had emphasised that it was pretty disgusting, the way JR used to be outraged when Shawn Michaels used to be [a word I cannot remember] of his dignity". They actually used the words: low, desperate, disgusting. Yeah, but I felt that the presentation of it was still that of a comedy spot. and Michael Cole being a shitty commentator doesn't help. I could be wrong, of course.

It would have been more okay if commentators and the presentation in general had emphasised that it was pretty disgusting, the way JR used to be outraged when Shawn Michaels used to be [a word I cannot remember] of his dignity".

Isn't much of wrestling the portrayal of attempted murder? Technically, in sanctioned matches at least, the participants accept that they might die. That is why unsanctioned matches are considered such a big deal, and all participants participate in them knowing fully well they might die. Although I am not going to even try to defend Hogan's vehicular assault on Rock before WM 18. I just think this one is worse because it was basically played for laughs. On an unrelated note, WWE's standard contracts after Owen died make for quite interesting reading.

Well, because of PG restrictions, Flair obviously couldn't do that, but, if you ask for my personal opinion, I would argue that a heel sneakily physically attacking a face is less offensive than what happened. My reasoning for that is because sexual assault is a different nature of crime; one in which, as Sek said, women are treated as nothing more than objects for sexual gratification, and are essentialised and reduced from being human beings to pleasure-giving robots. On the other hand, Flair low-blowing Becky would have meant that he recognised that Lynch was not only a person, but a dangerous competitor who needed to be weakened if his daughter had any hopes of winning. So, yeah. Just my two cents

So was Roman spearing his boss. Well then, might as well have people using n-words freely and freely raping women. because most things that happen in wrestling are criminal offences. There is a place for tasteless shit in wrestling, but in my opinion, sexual assault being used as a comedy spot is not one of them. Roman spearing his boss was treated as a huge deal, so even in wrestling terms, the treatment of both was different. If the announcers had talked about how despicable and horrible Flair was for doing that to Lynch, and how he should be put into jail for that, then it wouldn't be much of a problem.

In kayfabe terms, obviously. Point being that a scripted case of sexual assault should not be used as a comedy spot.

Okay listen I find Flair kissing Becky weird and kind of creepy but people really need to calm down on this "sexually assaulting" part that everyone is using. Kissing a woman without her permission IS sexual assault. It cannot get more cut-and-dry than that. The fact that wrestling has had hundreds of those over the years does not mitigate that. Weird and creepy would be Flair telling the world how beautiful Steph's ass is. This is an outright criminal offence.

Already mentioned in the OP, but yeah, Steph literally says on Twitter that she plays a character on TV, and shows up in multiple charity events, despite being easily the most protected heel of the company. Hunter soaks up goodwill acting as the beloved benevolent father figure of nXt, and before that, used to break kayfabe just to get pics clicked with Justin Bieber. This company sometimes makes me hate myself for being a wrestling fan.

Quoted for motherfucking truth. All the while bragging about how much pie he gets in a night, of course. Because THAT is totally different.

This segment is Vince's wet dream. The Rock is how Republicans think racial minorities should behave. The New Day is how Republicans think black people actually behave.

It was always his appeal. I cannot remember a single backstage segment from his prime where he didn't behave like a huge dick.

"Hey, we are totally serious about the DIVAS REVOLUTION, but we can't give them more than 5 minutes. You see, we absolutely need to give Kane-Wyatt #1000 15 minutes. Maybe next time."

Sasha has Becky in a painful hold. JBL sells the intensity of it by saying "You have orange hair there, you have pink hair, it's like the friggin' muppets out there." Fuck you, JBL. Fuck you.

The biggest active PPV draw on the planet right now, with Ronda on the sidelines, is a man who fights at 145 and 155 pounds. This Vince-ism that casual fans only want to see huge men club each other is not only antiquated, it is also empirically false. Mayweather was 145, I think? Unfortunately, a lot of so called "expert" fans - not here, but on a lot of other sites - parrot that. It is really annoying.

If this were a "Which present wrestler excites you the most while watching a match?" list, then Asuka would be number one, closely followed by Sasha, but only because she has done nothing of note in the last few months. Unfortunately, it is not, and as such, I do not think both of them are in the running for Top 100 wrestlers of all time. Maybe next time.

Good thread. Dunno about $26 million though; hasn't Meltzer said that the most Hogan ever earned in a year was $6 million?