Jetlag

Tenzan is a terrible wrestler. He even sucks in those Akiyama matches. Awful mongolian chops and headbutts, he's like the world's worst Killer Khan.

I agree with most of what OJ has said. So I'll try this... Buddy Rose or Johnny Saint? Rose. Not even close. I really like Saint as a flashy, trippy worker and his best matches are probably better than Roses, but even watching a limited sample of Buddy you can tell he is infinitely more versatile, gets good matches out of limited opponents and most importantly doesn't annoy you with endless smirks and jokes. Besides that Saint carrying a territory sounds like a nightmare. It also helps that Rose was able to have gritty, bloody matches and knew proper tag structure. Rose grinding his knuckles into Piper's bloody forehead is better than Saint busting Breaks' nose, Rose and Wiskowski team is better than messy WoS tags, Rose vs. Martel is a better rookie/vet match than Saint/Brookside. Etc. You could argue Saint has a longer career and wrestled in many different places, but he never really changed up his style. Steve Austin or Riki Choshu? Choshu. I like WCW Austin quite a bit and Austin vs. Angle is one of the best performances from a heel I've seen in a WWE match. But frantic japanese heavyweight wrestling beats Attitude Era brawls and for technician vs. brawler Fujinami/Choshu is atleast as good as Austin/Hart. Choshu/Fujiwara is a better spectacle than any Austin spectacle. Choshu "lariating a small house down" against Hashimoto is a moment I like more than anything but a handful of others in wrestling history. Choshu kept delivering goodies even into the 2000s. Austin was a good worker in a shitty environment who got the most out of it, but throw Choshu into any matchup and it becomes dynamite. Jushin Liger or Volk Han? I wanted to say Han on instinct, but it's a pretty close matchup. The main deciding factor would be style for me. Liger as a one-armed maniac vs. Sano or demolishing Ohtani with palm strikes is great. Liger doing throwaway matwork and forgettable move trading in standard junior matches doesn't really help his case at all. So I think Average Han destroys Average Liger. Liger has the longer career and more diverse types matches, such as the NOAH feud. I think if there was more stuff like Liger vs. Aoyagi he would get ahead of Han comfortably. But looking at the core Han is the better worker. I don't think these are that outlandish. Comparing Top WWF guy to Second Best 80s Japan Guy or Top Junior to Top RINGS guy isn't that outlandish. Let's look at these: Akira Taue or Black Terry? Akira Hokuto or Pirata Morgan? Ricky Steamboat or Finlay? Necro Butcher or Ron Garvin? Tamon Honda or Villano III?

I am... not really buying into any of that. It looks a lot like cherry picking to me. You might aswell argue Baba was better than Misawa like this. Is stuff like Funk vs. Jumbo or Briscoe vs. Jumbo really fodder for Jumbo as a great worker when it's the the vets doing the bulk of the work? Calling Jumbo a master at the 70s style seems like an overstatement... he was good at it but could also be real dull at times. Don't think he was significantly better than his peers in the 80s. Not as exciting as Choshu and definitely consistent on the same level as Tenryu. His strong point would be the section after Tenryu leaves where he works with Misawa and the kids... strong work but I'm not sure it elevates him to Flair levels. I can't think of any instance of Jumbo having a great match with a mediocre opponent ala Flair. Consistency is his issue... most Flair matches were disappointing, so were most Hansen bouts. Etc. This is not saying Jumbo is bad. But I'm not even a huge Misawa fan, and looking at the matches Misawa obliterates Jumbo, in my opinion. And it's not like Jumbo's edge in versatility is that big - Misawa has shown he can go hold for hold in matches against Hansen.

Javier Cruz - 80s lucha set Tenzan, Kojima - 2000s forum Joe Malenko - http://segundacaida.blogspot.de/2009/02/segunda-caidagoodhelmet-mix-tape-1-best.html Dan Spivey - 90s forum Dream Machine - 80s Memphis Booker T, Sandman - 90s forum Milano Collection A.T. - 2000s forum Debbie and Homicide are the only ones who need reviews

I recall reading somewhere Kikuchi vs. Takaiwa was a junior MOTDC, but that was more about Kikuchi. Also surely Kashin is better than Takaiwa? I mean that guy atleast sold.

I remember reading a story about Arandu (caveman luchador with awesome hair you may know from the 80s set) like this a while back. I can't remember the details, but apparently there was a 10 bell salute for Arandu at a lucha show in Monterrey or somewhere. I don't know if it was because of confusion over a fake or something, but the actual Arandu (who lives in Texas) was contacted, he then proceeded to call the promoter of the show for some beyond the grave shenanigans.

OJ, do you think it would be insane to consider Command Bolshoi among the best female workers? I really like the little I've seen from her.

I think it's great if you get over the terrible VQ. I think it was one of DLJ's last matches and he acts like such a dipshit in it thinking he has it all with his athleticism, but ends up falling on his ass. There is also a clipped match of theirs from 1978 on YouTube where Wanz busts out a lucha roll up among other things.

Here's 5 Wanz matches to watch. vs Bull Power 12/22/89 Bremen vs Sgt. Slaughter 7/9/1983 vs Don Leo Jonathan 7/12/1980 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2b2Z77nNuo vs Dick Murdoch 12/21/1985 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyYnk-weU3I vs Indio Guajaro March 1983 Recklinghausen

Doesn't look like much of a worker and got pretty bloated toward the end of his run (actually was a fairly athletic dude before the mid 80s, who did a neat Santo headscissor), but he was in a handful of spectacular bouts. Of course it's hard not to have a spectacular match when you are facing guys like Murdoch, Slaughter or Vader, but I like the style and big match atmosphere Wanz brings to these bouts, and his willingness to get demolished deserves a lot of credit. I was surprised to see how good he looks in early matches, against lesser opponents and on smaller shows, making his popularity understandable. He has quite a bit of footage available so I think it's not insane to consider him.

Same deal as T. Ishikawa. Old sumo asskicker is among my favourite types of japanese wrestlers and this guy is next to Tenryu for me. Hara uses about 3 moves but I love him for the little things. For example, he is among my absolute favourite guys ever at receiving kicks. There is a tag with Tenryu against Kitahara and someone where Kitahara unloads his arsenal and Hara is out of his world great getting clocked in his head, ear or barrel chest. His performance in the 1993 tag with Fuyuki against Hashimoto and Ohara is almost all headbutts but it's one of the best tags I've ever seen. I believe unlike Ishikawa he also has a handful singles matches very much worth watching. A guy who did simple things and created awesome moments. Wonder what his IWE stuff is like.

Probably won't convince anyone, but I like this dude more than about 3/4ths of the guys nominated. Really good second fiddle player to the stars and manages to steal the show from guys like Jumbo and Choshu. Don't know how good his AJPW run exactly his, but his post 1990 work as lumpy-surely old bastard who will kick you in the eye is among my favourite things to watch.

He reminds me a bit of the BattlARTS guys. Mostly indy career with not a lot footage available, cool innovative-uncooperative hybrid style mixing lucha and shootstyle matwork with stiffer than hell brawling. Doesn't show up on a regular basis anywhere, aside from the golden BTJr handheld run in 2010, but always pops up and wows you by turning someone's ankles inside out. Got insanely good in 2009, having one of the best IWRG singles matches ever against Zatura. His 2010 interactions with Black Terry may be among my favourite things Terry has done that definitely wasn't all Terry. That he is able to be among the best workers in the world in years where only a handful of handhelds are availalbe speaks volumes. I imagine if he joined CMLL his stock would skyrocket much like Hechicero's did.

This deserves some comments. These two had a studio TV match the year before that was really solid. But this is a different story. Bolshoi has evolved from Kid into Commando and added a bunch of flash submissions to her arsenal. The last match saw Plum putting Bolshoi away with a bunch of flash suplex moves, Plum deserves a ton of credit here for making Bolshoi look like the real deal. She ties her leg up in a nasty fashion on the buckle and can't do much in the match after that but is able to reverse some of Bolshoi's submission attempts. Most of the match is about tight submissions, knees and stomps. Really good finish in this match, both girls seem really underrated.

This was a hell of a little match. Duane is a beast and the story of the match is Ishikawa coming into his own and really stepping up the fight. Big crowd reactions to basic spots and they really emphasize the struggling over the basic holds and throws. Ishikawa really wants the win here. Killer finish.

He always had a great punch, great matwork and a brutal tope, so I'd say he was very good before peak IWRG. There's his stuff with Hijo del Santo and he consistently looks good to very good in the limited pre-2009 IWRG that I've seen, getting the most out of guys like Gigolo Americano, so he is more consistent than Freelance (disappointing matches) and has more stuff and more variety than Chico Che. There's a tag with Cerebro Negro against Virus and Suicida I've uploaded that is very much worth a look if you want to see what he could do. 2009-2011 he's off the charts for sure, benefitting from being around talented dudes but also carrying scrubs into high end matches.. Also, he is talked about in old DVDVRs as the craziest matworker around.

Him vs. Honda, Kobashi and Marufuji are among my favourite NOAH singles matches. Great tag worker with a nice unique dynamic to Akiyama and Inoue. I'd actually be interested in going back and checking out his 90s work. There's a super intense rookie match vs. Orihara somewhere, and I also remember a good outting from him against Koichiro Kimura in W*ING of all feds during his rookie year.

Nominating Otto Wanz via OJ's european wrestling list Takashi Ishikawa via 90s forum and SC WAR reviews http://segundacaida.blogspot.de/2010/08/segunda-caida-declares-war.html Ashura Hara via AJPW 80s and the above SC Dr Cerebro and Trauma II http://segundacaida.blogspot.de/2010/06/complete-and-accurate-black-terry.html

Underrated dude. His Terry Funk tribute is spot on and his technical stuff he can do very well. If you look at him vs. Shinzaki you'll notice he was really good in his second year of wrestling already. Problem is he was lost in the shuffle in the 2000s due to being forever undercard in lousy Big Japan. I remember him trying his damndest to get a good match out of Sekimoto in front of a dead crowd, also had a few fun lucharesu outtings with his stable of spotty service boys and arguably the best BJW tag with Mashimo et al. What he needs is a Togo-like run of indy veteran goodness and it just didn't happen in that volume. A shame because he's a secret fave of mine.

Great thread. Guaranteed to make my top 100: 1. Terry Funk 2. Stan Hansen 3. Dick Murdoch 4. Barry Windham 5. Tully Blanchard On the edge 6. Steve Austin 7. Kerry von Erich 8. Dusty Rhodes Probably won't/need to rewatch 9. Mark Henry 10. Dory Funk Jr. 11. Dusty Rhodes 12. Cowboy Bob Orton 13. Bruiser Brody Guys I need to see more of before I can rank them - Dutch Mantell - James Storm - Ted DiBiase - Tito Santana - Kevin von Erich

Fujiwara it is

Damn this was good. Hansen firing up and slapping the fuck out of people and forcing everyone around him to match his rage is a well beloved formula and Hansen as an old guy adds a nice different angle to it. Parts of this felt like the Baba/Rusher tag from 10 years earlier. It's trite to talk about Hansens selling and charisma but him putting over his opponent's strikes (to the point where he had people believe he was knocked out by a random Kobashi chop) and gathering considerable response for basic moves was a thing of beauty. By the end the whole crowd was dying to see the lariat and the eventual payoff gets a crazy response. Also I've never ever heard Kobashi getting heel responses like he did here. THAT is how good Hansen was. I also dug Taue as an understated second man on the Hansen team working deliberately heelish. Insane last minute with Akiyama once again bringing it all out for a lightning fast victory.

I really dig Meiko and I thought she had been nominated before. She's not flawless but for me is kind of like Ikeda as someone working mostly in their own niche, having a great series of matches with a specific dance partner (Kong in this case) under her belt and plucking away throughout various time periods and promotions, except she's still going really strong. Great moveset and she has that rare intensity that makes you buy her character and what she does. At her best she's about on the same level as Hokuto and Kong.

Fiera vs. Negro Casas Lucha meets WAR. This was about as stiff as any mexican match I can remember. Both guys were trading kicks square in the face and it was great. Casas' selling was pretty spectacular but I especially loved Fiera finding different ways to crack Casas' skull with nasty spin kicks. Watching his performance here reminded me a lot of an elbow-less Misawa. Both guys faceplant horrifically on missed dives. Nothing like a super simple, gritty lucha brawl.

Apparently two other workers on the show were injured before and it took the doctors a while to get to Perro because they were still busy with these. This is also the reason they had to improvise a table as stretcher to carry him away. The box/lucha comission is usually extra strict about lucha shows in Tijuana, so normally they would've been able to handle this. Terrible series of coincidences.