DMJ

Just cuz I was the one who brought up Brock/Rock, let me clarify that I was only listing that match as an alternative to Rock/HHH, which is what I've heard is the plan. If one would argue that HHH/Rock is better than Rock/Brock, I'm all ears. Hell, if you think both options are *equally* bad, I'd listen to the argument…but, to me, if these two are the sole options, Brock/Rock is the better alternative. After writing the OP and considering that Vince really only views a handful of guys as being worthy of matches against any of these part-timers, my vote would really be Rock/Reigns or Rock/Orton (in that order). Also, if people are bothered by Brock/Rock talk, I'll go out there and say that nothing annoys me more than when people suggest Kevin Owens or Cesaro in those positions as if there is really any chance in hell that in 2015-16 they would even be in consideration.

I'm excited about the Rock in WWE whenever it happens. He's a legit movie star and that brings importance to anything he does on the program. I'm not going to say he can do no wrong or that relying on him for ratings bumps is great longterm strategy, but he's the friggin' Rock and he's still more "must see" than just about anyone on the active roster. …but boy am I not interested in seeing him going up against Steph and Triple H. On the list of options of what to do with him, that really rates pretty low for me. Reasonable alternatives I could get behind would be obviously a match with Brock (mostly for the Heyman/Rock verbal jousting in the build-up), a tag team-then-feud with Roman Reigns (could be a great way to turn Roman heel and give him a huge Mania match), or something totally out-of-the-blue like just having him show up and be involved with relatively random guys where he just comes in and lays out heels with Rock Bottoms (Miz, Barrett, Sheamus, etc.) until someone like a newly-turned Orton drops him with an RKO or Rusev attacks him. Orton/Rock, Rusev/Rock, Wyatt/Rock, or even Rollins/Rock would all work in that sort of scenario for me.

As an overall year, I'd put him at the top of the WWE. Lesnar has been excellent too, but his aura as a part-timer makes his "nothing" matches (like squashing Big Show on Saturday) seem top notch even if they're nothing better than average. For my money, Lesnar is more "must see," but Cena's been a constant for a decade+ so its hard to view him that way anyway. Here's what seals it for me - * The Triple Threat from Rumble is probably still my MOTY * I liked Owens/Cena 1 a good bit * Cena/Neville was cool * Cena/Zayn was cool * Cena/Cesaro was cool * I liked the Rusev/Cena "I Quit" match even if it was cartoonish * Last week's 30-minute segment/matches with New Day proved he's still RAW's "MVP." As good as New Day is, against lesser opponents, they merely overshadow their foes. Up against Cena, they came off as a legit main event act. * The Cena/Rollins match at SummerSlam was great until the finish * The Cena/Rollins RAW match where Cena got his nose broke was a strong TV match * Cena/Rollins in the cage was solid on Saturday, it just sucked from these two already fighting like 6 times this summer already Reigns has quietly had a good year too, arguably a Top 3 in the WWE, but there were also some really weak moments - his Rumble performance, his SummerSlam performance, his 5-minutes-too-long-and-cop-out-ending match against Bray Wyatt at Battleground (I think it was?) - that keep me from putting him on the same level as Cena. If Cena is leaving for awhile, he left after a pretty darn strong 10 months.

Crowd seemed quiet during most of the show, to be honest, which made me wonder if the producers had their hand on the dial. For example, there was an audible "We want Sasha" chant at the start of the Divas match and then it just kinda stopped as soon as it started. My full review is on my blog - overall, the worst Network Special in 11 months if you ask me. Not out-and-out terrible, but also not a single moment was special aside from *maybe* the freshness of Jericho/Owens, which was a good-not-great match. Cena/Rollins was good too, but when every time they wrestle they hit a B+/A- minus range, it makes it hard to appreciate them hitting that same mark again. Lesnar/Big Show was meaningless and a waste of everyone's time - the segment where he tossed Bo Dallas around was ten times better. I think the producers wanted a "Please Retire" chant for Big Show's exit (which explains why Eden Stiles would announce "Let's give a round of applause to Big Show!") but didn't get it because either the crowd didn't even care enough about the guy for that or maybe, like me, they just feel bad for the dude. I'm not a Big Show mark or anything, but, man, he's a 7 foot, 450 pound, former World Champion and he actually got the premise of the match over through his historically-based and passionate promos leading up to it (with no help from Heyman or Lesnar, mind you). He was made to look like a complete chump…which makes Mark Henry and Cesaro look like chumps too. I hope this isn't what the WWE's house shows are normally like because I don't see why anyone should pay $30 a ticket to see a show with so many video recaps, NXT advertisements, and backstage segments.

Jobber matches would also help and I don't think it would damage ratings the way they fear or feared during the 90s. Kevin Owens roughing up the hell out of some no-name, followed by a passionate promo about Ryback, is more enticing to me than seeing Owens wrestle a competitive match with a midcarder like Neville because, at the end of the day, the finish is predictable in both. Similarly, I'd rather see Neville beat a jobber than lose to an established guy. That way, down the line, when we were to see an Owens/Neville match, it would be a battle between two guys who, up to that point, seem almost "unbeatable." Ryback's initial run was based entirely on him squashing jobbers. Sid, Warrior, etc. all got over with that formula. Hell, this week on NXT, I saw Apollo Crews take out Johnny Gargano (who I don't believe is even signed by the company?). Gargano got a touch of offense in, but it was a Crews showcase...and it generally worked and at no point did I say to myself, "I better change the channel because this is too predictable! Where are the stars?!?" Also, on the idea of time off/returns, someone said that even giving people time off doesn't freshen them. I disagree. The problem with Orton, Sheamus, and, most recently, Barrett's returns is that, when they do return, they are almost always thrust back into the exact same stale positions/feuds/gimmicks that they always had OR they come back in a big way but, by the next week, are wrestling in a midcard throwaway match. Look no further than Orton - he comes and goes, but never comes or goes in a remotely interesting way. They brought him back recently to serve as a 6-man in a Wyatt feud because why? That's the most interesting character development you can come up with for this guy? When's the last time Orton was in a relevant storyline over actual stakes? WM30? Just playing fantasy booker, there was a time when Orton/Lesnar seemed like it could've been a big deal. I think a face/face mentor/protege thing with Ambrose could've worked a year or two ago. I even think Orton vs. the Wyatt Family - with the Viper having no one to back him because of years of him being the untrustworthy Viper - could've been decent midcard fodder if you re-established Orton as a loner who RKOd everyone, friend or foe, and the Wyatts had stuck together in their original form. But one bad booking decision leads to more bad booking decisions and now everyone mentioned in the last paragraph, except Lesnar but including Randy, is stalled.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's filming something too or even just taking time off to "test the waters" with auditions and whatnot. I didn't see it, but Trainwreck got solid reviews and from what I heard from friends who saw it (including my mom), Cena was good in it (my mom had no idea he was a wrestler). I'm not sure what would surprise me more - Cena taking the time off as an opportunistic "power play" ala Hogan (just doesn't seem to match his track record) or the WWE having the common sense to finally say "Hey, maybe we don't need to overexpose our top guy by having him wrestle on all 52 RAWs a year." If only they'd let Orton off the show for longer than 8 days at a time. Also, Barrett returned this week...for what has to be his 9th "return" since his debut. I'm not a huge Barrett fan, but, man, when you're big return happens in a nothing midcard match in the middle of the lowest rated RAW in years, you can really tell how many shits are given about you by the higher-ups (answer: none. none shits.) I bring that up just to note that, if you held off on bringing in Barrett, he could've been brought back as something more special or in a more meaningful context - as a "spoiler" in some capacity (maybe he costs Reigns a match against Wyatt because he's sick of Reigns being "The Next Big Star" [a role Barrett once had] and we can transition Reigns into a fresh rivalry that would likely produce good matches) or as a Cena mystery opponent (especially if Cena is dropping the US Title soon). Him returning to pick up the storyline with Stardust makes logical storyline sense, but makes absolutely no sense when the WWE asks themself "How can I make an irrelevent character with potential relevant so that we can tap said potential?" In summation, Barrett's not a ratings draw and his return wasn't going to "move the needle" no matter what...but running the same play isn't good strategy when its not working and, when you're handed an opportunity to reinvigorate a character in a natural way, you should take it.

Only saw the first segment + match(es). Thought Woods/Cena and the six-man were both really strong. Woods was absolutely excellent in both and I'm guessing Cena appreciated having a bit of a "night off." I don't mean to imply that Cena was anything less than his usual good-to-great, but this was exactly what I wanted out of him after months of arguably overblown matches with Owens, Rollins, and Cesaro. Cena's work in the six-tag also made me wonder if anyone has ever talked about Cena in tag situations. Maybe something for the Microscope? I don't have an opinion either way, but I'm sure the body of work is there to see if he's bad, average, or good. I thought he was really good here, selling for New Day masterfully. I especially like what he did for Big E, who, at one point, hit him with a shoulder block that Cena bounced all the way to the heel corner from and, the cherry on top, ate a nasty spear to the outside that company ace John friggin' Cena didn't need to take. I read the rest of the show is not great, but if you told me that the show declined from here on out, I'd believe you - the top 4 reasons to watch RAW were done by 8:30.

Occasionally I have issues where I press play and the loading goes on and on and on and the video never appears. Occasionally I get the buffering start/stop crap. Rebooting the app seems to help. I've even rebooted my Roku itself (basically unplugged it, waited a minute or two, and plugged it back in). I'm not knowledgable about how these things work, but in my mind, I feel like it helps to "break the connection" with the WWE Network and then establish a brand new connection if that makes any sense.

I miss the early 90s "Computer Tournaments" that the mags would have that were obviously never run through any sort of computer. Not even the one the Alexandra York and the York Foundation used (which would have put Terry Taylor at number 1 and Richard Morton at 2?).

Am I crazy but I thought I read somewhere that he has a match against Bret Hart thats good?

i think Kane/Rollins is perfectly passable as the midcard title match at Hell in a Cell. With Taker/Lesnar in a Cell, the rest of the card barely matters, especially to fans who are currently on-board with the product (haters gonna hate). Throw in what looks to be Orton/Reigns/Ambrose vs. Wyatts, the Ryback/Owens rematch, I'm guessing some sort of Cena defense (I'd like it to be someone vastly different from Owens and Rollins - maybe Henry? maybe Miz? Jericho? - that can wrestle him in a match that doesn't rely on popping the crowd with crazy moves every 8 seconds), plus Charlotte vs. Nikki again (?) and you have a perfectly reasonable show headlined by the biggest match possible in October 2015. Whoops, left off New Day, Rusev, Cesaro, and Sheamus too. I don't think Kane/Rollins would be an interesting, attention-getting main event on 9 out of 10 Network specials, but like the Kane/Bryan match at Extreme Rules 2014 (which also featured, if I'm not mistaken, Cena/Wyatt in a cage, and Shield/Evolution), it makes sense storyline-wise, it isn't necessarily positioned as THE top match on the card, and it may surprise us by being fun.

No need to google it. You can strap 10 rockets onto Sheamus, he couldn't then and he can't now fly as a main event guy when he probably isn't even in the Top 10 when it comes to getting consistent live crowd reactions, selling merchandise, or having his matches have that "big match feel." He's an upper midcard act that has been overexposed and doesn't have the charisma/character/mic skills/"it factor" to project himself back into that top tier the way, say, CM Punk could in 2011 or Daniel Bryan could whenever he comes back or, arguably, Dean Ambrose, Roman Reigns, or even Rusev probably could in 2016.

I only saw part of the "pipe bomb" promo, but totally agree that if this is their attempt at turning Paige heel, they have once again overbooked what should be a really simple story. Charlotte won the title. The crowd liked it. She's a face. Paige is jealous, she attacks Charlotte. She is now heel, even if she's justified and the crowd isn't yet hating her. Then, next week, you have Paige bring up the nepotism, maybe even spit or slap Ric in the face. The crowd loves Ric and now they have reason #2 to dislike Paige. I know the WWE loves their "shades of grey" characters, but if you're building a division from scratch - which is essentially what the WWE is doing when 30% of your active female characters are relatively recent NXT call-ups that are unknown to a sizable part of the audience - you need clear good guys and bad guys. This isn't just a Paige problem either - I think Sunday night showed that Nikki Bella, when in clear cut heel role, can be pretty darn good. Unfortunately, her feuds with Paige and AJ weren't scripted that way. At one point, several months ago, she basically cut her own pipe bomb promo, breaking the 4th wall by confidently expressing how hard she works, how much she loves the business, how she doesn't care that she's not "different" or "indie" like AJ and Paige, etc. etc. that was practically cribbed word-for-word from her boyfriend's playbook. Throw in the fact that, on Total Divas, all the girls are depicted as likable (or, at least, as characters you "love to hate," and therefor, like).

Really agree with this and I might add that you don't have to look much further than the Macho Man elbow drop he started using. To me, it looked pretty terrible, like he was just tossing himself off the top, not really aiming for any specific part of his opponent and rarely connecting with the "sweet spot" that Savage always seemed to land on. But man was it a great tool in his arsenal, one that worked on two levels too - the first being the obvious nod to Randy Savage The Wrestling Legend that every fan under the sun remembers, the second being the slightly more subtle nod to Randy Savage The Excommunicated Black Sheep. Punk's adoption of Mach's elbow drop worked fine as a desperation high risk move (even if sloppily executed), but its real brilliance was that it further defined Punk's own status/character as the company's chief outspoken outlaw, the pipebomb-throwing individualist who stood for the future by standing up for the past. So, yeah, not a very elegant worker - but it absolutely worked for him, arguably more than if he would've been smoother.

Ugh, gotta disagree. The nu-metal garbage is one of the reasons watching those shows back is a bit of a chore for me, especially the Manias and whenever they were trying to sell another WWE music CD and all of a sudden everyone had new theme songs for 3 months (the most atrocious example might've been Austin's comeback theme in 01'). Since then, though, I *do* think the WWE has improved substantially in this department. If you look at the current roster, I'd argue that (especially with guys like Edge, Batista, Matt Hardy, Jericho, and other "Aggression Era" guys gone) this is the most diverse entrance music period in at least 15 years. Orton, Dolph, and Sheamus are still holding down the heavy metal/pop metal dirge rock, but at least they cut the lyrics from Reigns and other guys like him. Without lyrics, the songs are much more bearable and generally fit the character. Extra note - my buddy brought this up and it is absolutely true 10,000 percent. The problem with Dean Ambrose's music/entrance has nothing to do with Ambrose or his music. It's the fact that it repeats the fucking engine rev multiple times within a span of maybe 90 seconds. What the fuck kinda stupid shit is that? The engine rev should be the same as Austin's glass breaking sound - it should happen once and only once while the song itself can repeat as needed and if it does loop back into the song, maybe stretch it out so that you don't hear it so many times. Meanwhile, if you think of acts like the Wyatts, the Bellas, Charlotte, The New Day, Stardust, John Cena, Mark Henry, Los Matadores, Neville, the Usos...none fall into the metal trap. To me, to complain about the modern product being too focused on heavy metal/pop metal/hard rock in 2015 is at least a decade late.

I don't mind the guitar shot as much as the sledgehammer. At least with the guitar, you get a great visual - with the sledgehammer, there is no payoff. Its like the kendo stick or the phony aluminum trash can - at the very least, those objects made awesome sounds. The high heel shoe is the first thing that came to mind when I read the title of this thread, but that's likely because I'm in the midst of a WCW PPV marathon watch and have recently finished 95' and half of 96'. How about Jim Duggan's Taped Fist finish? I never really understood it conceptually. Tape or not, it's a right hand to the jaw so its going to hurt - but wouldn't athletic tape covering the knuckles, however slightly, weaken the punch by "cushioning" the knuckles? If not, why not just wear the tape from the beginning of the match too - I mean, it's not even illegal. Maybe this is the wrong thread for delving into the theory behind that gimmick.

I'd love to see Kurt back for a "one-off," but with Daniel Bryan out indefinitely and CM Punk gone, I'm not sure I see many "dream matches" for the guy. Despite their history, Lesnar/Angle would have to be considered a longshot in 2015 and I don't think Triple H or Taker, despite also having a history of good-to-very good matches with Angle, would be put up against him either. Angle/Rusev would've been gold, but Rusev is not as hot a heel as he once was and they've even downplayed some of his anti-US stuff a touch in his current storyline. I could see Angle/Rollins working if it happened in 2015 but I don't think it will happen. In this fantasy booking scenario, Rollins would retain against Sting, retain against Kane at Hell in a Cell, gloat about being the most decorated athlete in WWE history before Angle would show up and challenge him - all of this building to an inevitable Rollins/HHH match where Rollins represents the future who has defeated all the 90s stars (Angle, Sting, Kane) and HHH reps the Old Guard. But, yeah, no Punk and no Bryan (the two guys Angle referenced most over the years as who he would want to work with) makes me think that, while an Angle Farewell Tour is a cool idea, it is not one that is as easy to book as one might think.

Maybe Mark Henry in that spot? He's a Texan. He could show up and have a stare off with Braun. He's a babyface (I think?).

When Flair had Austin on his podcast, Flair's co-host had to correct him on Austin/Hart from WrestleMania 13 not being a 60-minute match. Flair then admitted he'd never seen the match. That one kind of boggled my mind mostly because of just how iconic that match is, plus, it did happen on the biggest show of the year for the rival promotion (the one show you'd think everyone watched). It didn't totally negate any of Flair's praise for Austin and its obvious the two get along well - but it almost reminded me of if I met Robert De Niro, we had a long talk about his accomplishments and the actor's craft and his successes, we shared a lot of laughs and had a great time and became drinking buddies, and then, sometime around our 20th hangout, I told him I'd never gotten around to seeing Taxi Driver.

What about "reinvention" of territory/indie stars? I'm not super knowledgeable about WWWF and pre-Wrestlemania WWF, but I feel like the number of examples of guys that Vince "reinvented" or gave wholly new gimmicks to (Curt Hennig becomes "Mr. Perfect," Harley Race becomes "King Harley Race," Cactus Jack becomes Mankind) certainly outnumbers the guys he took in and didn't "retouch" (Ric Flair, Jim Cornette, Rob Van Dam).

Other bright WCW spots from 95'... * The matches aren't all there, but aside from Savage/Flair, there's also the Savage/Luger tension. I always liked that Savage and Luger had a "frienemy" thing going on and it felt real because everyone can relate to those friendships where you have two buddies that should get along, but don't and always end up at odds. It was like an ongoing episode of a Disney teen drama starring Sting as "the girl torn between two friends." * Reunion of Horsemen (I love the Pillman/Anderson vs. Sting/Flair match) * Cobra vs. Pittman at Fall Brawl 95'. Maybe my favorite bad match ever. Worth watching if you've never seen it. Absolutely ridiculous. * DDP's overblown, super sized selling. See the matches with the Renegade. * Pillman vs. Wright at GAB 95' is solid

The bad news is that the likelihood of us getting an Over The Limit 2012 main event rematch has now gone from 0% to 1% and that's 1% too much.

The point about building up talent to face eachother is one that I wholeheartedly agree with - and yet another reason why the lack of a "ladder" is so frustrating and counterproductive. Look no further than the current Rusev/Ziggler storyline. It should've been a clear-cut storyline of Rusev trouncing Ziggler repeatedly to impress his ex-girlfriend, but instead, Ziggler (whose strength is being an underdog) is presented as being his equal - eventhough the company spent the better part of a year trying to make Rusev look like an unbeatable monster. In the process they've done serious harm to Rusev's longterm earning potential and, counterintuitively, by presenting Ziggler as equal or better than Rusev and Harper, they've actually hurt him too because you're only an underdog when you lose consistently (which makes your victories that much more meaningful). This is also a reason why having squash matches is key - if I see Reigns demolish guys for 5 weeks and see Braun demolish guys for 5 weeks, then on Week 6, when they square off on the big show, I'm going to be interested because both guys look like absolute destroyers impervious to pain. Something's gonna have to give and it's gonna be live on the Network for $9.99!!! Which brings us back to the new wrestling economy - I think its a really interesting idea and one that I'm guessing more and more of the execs are understanding...but I wonder if Vince McMahon himself is fully confident or open-minded enough to consider that TV ratings and crossover appeal should no longer be his prime focus. I think it'd be hard for him to see that because, I'm guessing, in the early-to-mid-90s, he was hearing the same thing ("It'll never be like Hulkamania again"). Then, boom in 97', the company catches lightning-in-a-bottle again and all the people that said the company had "peaked" with Hogan were wrong in his eyes. It wouldn't surprise me for Vince to have a bit of a chip on his shoulder and fully believe that he's only one star away from doubling his ratings again...just like in 98'-99'.

If she wouldn't like to be called a Nazi, she shouldn't put pro-Nazi art on her walls and then share them on Instagram. I totally get that there are ignorant, racist, homophobic, misogynistic, ageist, xenophobic people in the wrestling world (hell, there's probably an argument that there's a pretty big example of one in charge of the US's top promotion as we speak), but that doesn't mean she should be let off the hook. If anything, fans should be more unwelcoming of her to show that what flew in the 70s and 80s and 90s and 00s isn't cool in 2015. As for Lemmy, his own words are enough for me: http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mot-rhead-s-lemmy-talks-about-his-world-war-ii-fascination/ If this woman had a quarter of the tact, talent, or common sense of Mr. Kilmister, I might give her a similar pass…till then I'm gonna keep rocking "No Sleep 'Til Hammersmith" without feeling bad about it.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this story: http://uproxx.com/prowrestling/2015/08/wwe-nxt-zahra-schreiber-racist-instagram/ Reminds me of a girl I knew in high school. She was dating my good friend and had an interesting butterfly tattoo. She was an older chick and explained to me that she had to have it fixed because it was originally a swastika. Me and my friend being Jewish made it kind of a funny story? So, part of me says, "Hey, that photo is from 3-4 years ago. Maybe she's changed." And then I clicked on the links later in the article (https://i.imgur.com/Gtn16mu.jpg and http://36.media.tumblr.com/1646a4eea3762e786d65b9d7e66a51a9/tumblr_nhgjz2xiKI1tg8n0bo1_500.jpg) and I say "Fuck this woman." I don't want to see her fired just yet. I'd much much much prefer if this story gains steam and the next time she's in front of a live crowd, the NXT fans chant "You're a Nazi!" in unison. That way, her career's not only ruined in the WWE, but hopefully in any number of other promotions. I say this, too, with full respect to the indie worker "Basket Nazi," who I thought was great when I used to see him at indie shows in Cleveland. It was an obvious gimmick and designed solely to get heat. There was never any doubt that if you went to his home, you wouldn't see Nazi paraphernalia (sp?). It was an insensitive gimmick, but it also was one he knew could only work in untelevised 50-person house shows (he has since stopped using it). This woman, on the other hand, is someone who, just looking at her own words, obviously is a pretty insensitive idiot who finds casual and not-so-casual racism to be not only acceptable but a symbol of her "independence." She has the right to say and think whatever she wants. That's the beauty of the first amendment. But as I teach my 8th grade students, the first amendment doesn't mean there are no consequences for voicing your opinion. I'd make a comment about Seth Rollins, but this has nothing to do with him - except it might be a sign she's not the "marrying" type.