C.S.

Anyone catch The Authentic Untold Story of ECW? There was actually new information - new to me, at least. I thought it was a fun, breezy show that went by quickly. It really could have gone another hour or two, and I wish it had. The only jarring point was Corey Graves interrupting a great conversation to ask everyone to describe ECW in one or two words. I guess he realized they were running out of time and had to wrap the show up. Graves did a great job otherwise though. It got very emotional in the last couple of minutes, especially with Paul E. and Tommy Dreamer. But Paul mentioning Brock Lesnar at the very end sucked and seemed out of place. That made it obvious that this was filmed before Survivor Series (which it was). Makes me wonder if they didn't know the final booking at that point. Normally I'd scoff at the notion of anyone from WWE watching anything on PBS, but the format does seem too similar to be coincidental.

I get the feeling the show was quietly cancelled. Either someone got upset over the content or (more likely) it wasnt recieving enough views. What about Holy Foley? First five episodes and then nothing. Did WWE also quietly cancel it?

Funnily enough, Heyman "spoiled" the match on Friday and said it was going to go two minutes. Link: http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/11/paul-heyman-brock-lesnar-bill-goldberg-wwe-survivor-series You just made my day!

Anyone watch Story Time yet? It's not bad, actually. Four "road" stories told by the wrestlers themselves, narrated by Gene Okerlund, and given the animation treatment. All in all, it's only 11 minutes long - the perfect length for a "bedtime story," if you ask me.

The Cruiserweight finish actively angered to the point where I had to turn off the show and take a drive somewhere. When I got back, I continued where I left off, which was the Raw vs. SDL men's Survivor Series match. Holy shit, it...never...seemed...to...end. But I'll echo what someone else said: I was rarely bored. Was it goofy as fuck and often illogical? Yeah. Shane looking like Superman was ridiculous. There was a ton wrong with the match, but I can't bring myself to totally hate it either. I wish it had been chopped in half though, with every other match getting a bit more time. I'll admit: I marked out for Goldberg's squash. I loved it. I really hate Brock Lesnar though. In every way, I consider him an albatross and liability. With that said, is there an encyclopedia of reasons to criticize the match and finish? Yes, obviously. But I wasn't expecting it at all. It worked for me for that reason alone. Since 'cowboy hats' brought it up, I won't say anything about Goldberg's son other than he looked really tired - way past his bedtime? Nice father-son moment nonetheless. I'm really happy for Goldberg and even happier that Toronto chanted its ass off for him.

What the fuck.

Should we be reading into anything because Kalisto isn't anywhere on that graphic for 205 Live?

Brock vs. Goldberg will be a 40-minute "epic."

Picked up when it got to the final two, but a boring match otherwise.

A much better idea would be to have everyone wear red or blue versions of their normal costumes - gets the same point across without making them all look like bland jabroni jokes.

Yikes, and you people thought the women's match had rushed pinfalls and shitty psychology...

at the Miz/Zayn finish. At least the "Survivor Series screwjob" finish happened here and not in a "more important" match.

Nikki's attacker? Eva Marie ‏@natalieevamarie Wish my girls on team blue good luck tonight, but also not to get to comfy cuz I'll be back before you know it @WWE #SurviorSeries https://twitter.com/natalieevamarie/status/800469218307121152

I hope not, because his whole appeal is that he's a babyface. Ditto for Foley's. (Obviously Foley was a fantastic heel in his day, but that's not the role anyone wants to see him in now IMO.)

I've literally just watched Survivor Series 88 and that whole show is phenomenally well booked and has some great psychology. Fair enough, but watch '91 or beyond and they're not a far cry from that women's match. I'm not saying the women's match was blameless - there are definitely things to criticize - but I think people have rose-colored glasses about past Survivor Series matches.

I thought the women's match was fine and fun for what it was. Anyone expecting expert psychology or pinfalls that aren't rushed clearly don't remember past Survivor Series matches - they're all like this. Still, I agree with the criticisms - Carmella being pinned by a jobber like Foxy, Sasha being disposed of like a midcarder, and Jax tapping out so quickly - but that kind of stuff is par for the course in a Survivor Series match. Odd that Naomi, of all people, got "protected" with the countout loss. What was with Nikki Bella being replaced? Legit injury or did Nattie attack her?

Kane vs. Luke Harper is on the pre-show right now.

I'm glad you brought that up, because it will allow me to clear up any misconceptions: I have nothing against "fat" wrestlers. I've loved a ton of them over the years - probably a lot more than the average fan, if I had to guess. Mick Foley is my avatar after all. Okay, Mick isn't fat-fat, but you get my point - he's not Batista either. Kamala is one of my all-time favorites, I thought the Natural Disasters were a fun as hell tag team (and Earthquake in particular was really good at the little things), was a huge fan of Yokozuna as a kid, and I think those are enough examples for now, lol. Joe's weight and body type have nothing to do with why I don't find him believable as a "badass" or enjoyable in the ring. I do agree that "Butter Tits" sounds like an anti-fat comment, but that was not my intention and I apologize for the misunderstanding. Truthfully, I was just being silly and it spiraled into this. Joe could look like Batista and I still wouldn't buy him in his current role - the same way I never bought Perry Saturn as a tough guy even though he was chiseled like granite. I used the example of Raven earlier - I never bought into his "tortured soul" character or whatever it was supposed to be. It always felt to me like a guy who was playing a part. Maybe Joe (or Saturn or whoever) is the toughest guy in the world in real life. That would make no difference to me. Even though Mike Graham supposedly beat up Sid in real life, I'd still cast Sid as the imposing monster, not Graham. The actor Donal Logue went to Harvard, but he gets cast as "blue collar" types. Why? Because that is what he can convincingly play, despite his Harvard pedigree. I guess what it comes down to for me is Joe's "personality." To me, he doesn't come across as a "badass" but more of that dickish fratboy, jock, football player type. He can handle himself some of the time - he's no pushover, but he isn't the king of the hill either and can easily get toppled if he crosses someone who actually is big and bad. As a face, same thing, except in a more positive underdog Rudy sort of way. (Rudy might be the wrong example, because Joe is certainly more skilled and imposing, but I can't think of a better sports movie analogy right now.) Now, if you do buy Joe as a "badass" (or Donal as Albert Einstein), great. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. I'm simply stating my own opinion on the matter.

They've been the MVPs of the past 3-4 shows. It's amazing that I actually thought they were bland NWA cosplay jobbers at first. But that's what I love about NXT - you get these raw pieces of clay, and then suddenly a switch is flipped and they become awesome. Now they're my favorite tag team in the world and maybe my favorite tag team in several years. I really hope they aren't ruined on Smackdown or Raw. American Alpha has gone nowhere since being drafted.

Assuming slog isn't an auto-correct error, the sad thing is, it actually looks like a pretty fun show - but four hours is too damn long for anything, and you know it will probably go even longer than that if recent PPVs are any indication. Are any of the matches in the OP scheduled for the pre-show, or will there be additional matches not in the OP? Just want to know if the pre-show is missable.

I will not stoop to your level and call you or other posters "fucking idiots." Anyway, I'm having a problem multi-quoting, so I'll spare everyone the ordeal of reading through everything that's already in this thread anyway. Yes, my original post about Joe was a "dismissive one-liner" - agreed - but I followed it up with my detailed thoughts about Joe (and Asuka). They're right here in this thread if you ever want to read them instead of willfully ignoring them. Again, I appreciate the posters who disagreed (or agreed, or both) with me civilly and actually mounted coherent defenses for Joe and/or Asuka.

Triple post. Please delete.

Triple post. Please delete.

Wasn't there another brief Big Daddy V comeback in ECW with that look and Striker, or am I hallucinating that?

I could be wrong or misremembering, but didn't the commentators make it clear that this wasn't over? I was definitely under the impression that we were getting at least one more match. It was late and I was tired though, so I might be mixing up their commentary with my own wishes and/or posts here speculating about a rematch. But yeah, I'm so ready for Nakamura to be called up. Would LOVE him as a surprise entrant in the Royal Rumble. And as much as I dislike Joe, I think Joe vs. Reigns is a natural feud - would be a lot of fun.