C.S.

I'm glad you brought that up, because it will allow me to clear up any misconceptions: I have nothing against "fat" wrestlers. I've loved a ton of them over the years - probably a lot more than the average fan, if I had to guess. Mick Foley is my avatar after all. Okay, Mick isn't fat-fat, but you get my point - he's not Batista either. Kamala is one of my all-time favorites, I thought the Natural Disasters were a fun as hell tag team (and Earthquake in particular was really good at the little things), was a huge fan of Yokozuna as a kid, and I think those are enough examples for now, lol. Joe's weight and body type have nothing to do with why I don't find him believable as a "badass" or enjoyable in the ring. I do agree that "Butter Tits" sounds like an anti-fat comment, but that was not my intention and I apologize for the misunderstanding. Truthfully, I was just being silly and it spiraled into this. Joe could look like Batista and I still wouldn't buy him in his current role - the same way I never bought Perry Saturn as a tough guy even though he was chiseled like granite. I used the example of Raven earlier - I never bought into his "tortured soul" character or whatever it was supposed to be. It always felt to me like a guy who was playing a part. Maybe Joe (or Saturn or whoever) is the toughest guy in the world in real life. That would make no difference to me. Even though Mike Graham supposedly beat up Sid in real life, I'd still cast Sid as the imposing monster, not Graham. The actor Donal Logue went to Harvard, but he gets cast as "blue collar" types. Why? Because that is what he can convincingly play, despite his Harvard pedigree. I guess what it comes down to for me is Joe's "personality." To me, he doesn't come across as a "badass" but more of that dickish fratboy, jock, football player type. He can handle himself some of the time - he's no pushover, but he isn't the king of the hill either and can easily get toppled if he crosses someone who actually is big and bad. As a face, same thing, except in a more positive underdog Rudy sort of way. (Rudy might be the wrong example, because Joe is certainly more skilled and imposing, but I can't think of a better sports movie analogy right now.) Now, if you do buy Joe as a "badass" (or Donal as Albert Einstein), great. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. I'm simply stating my own opinion on the matter.

They've been the MVPs of the past 3-4 shows. It's amazing that I actually thought they were bland NWA cosplay jobbers at first. But that's what I love about NXT - you get these raw pieces of clay, and then suddenly a switch is flipped and they become awesome. Now they're my favorite tag team in the world and maybe my favorite tag team in several years. I really hope they aren't ruined on Smackdown or Raw. American Alpha has gone nowhere since being drafted.

Assuming slog isn't an auto-correct error, the sad thing is, it actually looks like a pretty fun show - but four hours is too damn long for anything, and you know it will probably go even longer than that if recent PPVs are any indication. Are any of the matches in the OP scheduled for the pre-show, or will there be additional matches not in the OP? Just want to know if the pre-show is missable.

I will not stoop to your level and call you or other posters "fucking idiots." Anyway, I'm having a problem multi-quoting, so I'll spare everyone the ordeal of reading through everything that's already in this thread anyway. Yes, my original post about Joe was a "dismissive one-liner" - agreed - but I followed it up with my detailed thoughts about Joe (and Asuka). They're right here in this thread if you ever want to read them instead of willfully ignoring them. Again, I appreciate the posters who disagreed (or agreed, or both) with me civilly and actually mounted coherent defenses for Joe and/or Asuka.

Triple post. Please delete.

Triple post. Please delete.

Wasn't there another brief Big Daddy V comeback in ECW with that look and Striker, or am I hallucinating that?

I could be wrong or misremembering, but didn't the commentators make it clear that this wasn't over? I was definitely under the impression that we were getting at least one more match. It was late and I was tired though, so I might be mixing up their commentary with my own wishes and/or posts here speculating about a rematch. But yeah, I'm so ready for Nakamura to be called up. Would LOVE him as a surprise entrant in the Royal Rumble. And as much as I dislike Joe, I think Joe vs. Reigns is a natural feud - would be a lot of fun.

Gonna take this from the other thread since it's about this one (no need to clutter up two threads with the same argument): You're "getting heat" (fuck outta here) cause you called him "butter tits" like a goddamn child. And yours and other responses to my lighthearted jab to Joe has been beyond childish. Grow up! I will not engage you, Sorrow, or Ready_Willing_Gable (despite his awesome username) any further on this topic. Grimmas, sek69, and cpst have disagreed or agreed with me (or both) about Joe and/or Asuka in a mature, rational manner. Thank you for that. Putting "Butter Tits" aside, I think I've crafted a pretty coherent argument as to why Joe and Asuka don't work for me. Others disagree, which is to be expected, but the ones who are actually posting the reasons they like Joe and/or Asuka have raised equally reasonable points. Bottom line: I dislike the top two champions in NXT right now. To be honest, this is probably the "worst" NXT has ever been since the WWE Network began and the least interested I've ever been in the brand. But there are still awesome things happening (Revival vs. #DIY was one of the best matches in TakeOver history, Bobby Roode has been great fun, etc.), so I just have to wait out the aspects I don't like. I wasn't a fan of Finn Balor's reign either, so other than Nakamura's brief run, the NXT "World" Title picture has been dry to me for a good year now. They've really bungled up the Women's Division too IMO. They literally had no one to replace The Four Horsewomen, Alexa Bliss, Nia Jax, Dana Brooke, etc. with. Part of that IMO is booking. Why can't they be doing more with, say, Billie Kay, Tessa Blanchard (although I don't think she's signed), etc.? I'm not sure what happened with Blue Pants, but someone like that would have been useful in a transition period. Would she have given Asuka a great match? No. But she was really over and would have been a fun first challenger in the plucky underdog role. I realize NXT is somewhat in rebuilding mode though, so I hope it's firing on all cylinders again in a year. With that said, I'm sympathetic to the challenges of running a developmental fed - anyone who is "too good" eventually gets called up - but maybe they called up too many people too quickly? Nia Jax, Dana Brooke, and a few others like that aren't exactly lighting the main roster on fire. I think they should have gotten another six months in NXT. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

It was a fun show, but it did get progressively worse IMO. - Roode vs. Dillinger was good fun once it got going. The outcome was never truly in doubt, but they did make me question my instincts a couple of times. Dillinger's dejected "I'm sorry" at the end was both heartbreaking and awesome. - Authors of Pain vs. TM61 wasn't a great match, but I don't think it was necessarily designed to be. Truth be told, I was more worried about Ellering up in that cage. That thing looked flimsy as hell. Was the chain spot blown near the end, or did the Author of Pain mean to throw out out of the ring? Either way, the right team won. TM61 has done nothing for me whatsoever. The Mighty Don't Kneel, but TM61 Does Bore. - The Revival vs. #DIY (dumb name, great team) was far and away the match of the night. These guys are awesome. Part of me thought #DIY would win to set up a feud with Authors of Pain, but the other part of me was expecting a turn from Ciampa, who was subtly abusive toward his partner during the match (did anyone else notice that?) - Asuka vs. Mickie James was strange. They made James, a once-off wrestler (as far as we know), look stronger than Bayley or Nia Jax. Still, the outcome was never in doubt. The finish felt kind of rushed, if anything. - I am getting heat in another thread for my utter disdain for Samoa Joe from Johnny Sorrow and the like. I'll accept that. I don't buy Joe as a "badass" - he's totally miscast in the role - and this was easily the worst match of the night and the worst main event in the history of NXT TakeOver. That's probably because it Joe controlled the tempo throughout and made it his kind of match: slow, boring and sloppy. They've turned Nakamura, who was something really special, into "just another guy." I really hope he's being called up. I'll be honest that another Joe reign fills me with complete dread. I was half-hoping that Tyson Kidd, who the fat, clumsy Joe injured, would come out and confront him. That would make a second Joe reign bearable for me. But Kidd's career is probably over (thanks, Joe), so I knew that was a pipe dream. Where does this leave Roode, who seemed poised to be the next challenger? I realize he's getting glorious fan reactions, but he's not exactly a babyface. I guess we'll get another Nakamura rematch first. I hope Nak regains it and sends Joe to Raw (as much as I don't like Joe, I'd love a Joe-Reigns feud because that's a natural).

I plan on it. I'm happy to discuss the merits of Joe with any of his fans - I always enjoy a good debate - but I have nothing to say to a post like this. This! Though I think I liked the second Bayley match more (maybe because I was delusional enough to think she was regaining the belt and becoming the first 2x NXT Women's Champion), but neither of them were barn-burners IMO.

Insult me all you want, but Joe's woefully miscast in his "badass" role. I don't buy it for a second. The story itself would be good with someone who fits the part. He doesn't, and hasn't for a decade. (Same issue I had with Raven - never believed that character for a second.) I agree that Joe works hard and does the best he can with his now more limited toolset - he's not Booty Man/Zodiac/Disciple or anything like that - but the fact is, he's past his prime, period. He's no slug - he holds up his end - but I don't find his presence compelling, and I haven't enjoyed him hogging the NXT limelight for as long as he has. I'm more than ready to see Nakamura take on fresh opponents. As for Asuka, nothing wrong with a dominant champ, but when the rest of the division is in severe shambles and a far cry from its "glory days" - only a year ago - forgive me for not caring. It's not all her fault - she has nothing to work with - but she hasn't connected with me as a character either. Her in-ring is good, but that's only part of the overall package - at least for me.

Compared to past shows, there really isn't. Everyone wants to see Mickie, but no one believes she has a hope in hell of winning. No matter how talented Asuka is in the ring, her entire reign has been a colossal bore and her "dominant" presence has been a massive buzzkill over the once important and now floundering NXT Women's Division. Nak vs. Butter Tits for the 20th time also isn't compelling. Revival vs. #DIY (what a stupid fucking name) should be awesome, but the Dusty Classic final sounds like shit and Roode vs. Dillinger isn't interesting because they haven't bothered to build Dillinger up (should be fun bell to bell though).

Mickie James defends Joey Styles: https://www.facebook.com/mickieljames/posts/1640214492670850

I almost expected these sentences to follow the same pattern he had established in the lines leading up to them: While apologizing to the wrestlers, I saw that Timothy Thatcher obviously had a very serious concussion. It didn't matter if Timothy Thatcher had a serious concussion, therefore I apologized to the wrestlers again. Timothy Thatcher's main event opponent, Drew Gulak also recognized that it was a very serious concussion and said that Timothy needed to go to the hospital. It didn't matter that Drew Gulak also recognized that it was a very serious concussion and said that Timothy needed to go to the hospital.

His "joke" was deplorable but I don't agree with Beyond Wrestling and apparently now CHIKARA also canning him for something that didn't even happen in their respective companies.

I watched the Savage-Austin match. It was only about three minutes bell to bell. Man, what a crime, because what we did get was great. Yet another example of WCW being WCW.

Are we sure about that, or did Gotch just get punished because he lost the fight? I could see WWE being that petty.

Backstage fight between Jericho and Sin Cara...WTH?

I wasn't feeling the PPV at all at first. It was me, not the show. Stil, I turned it off and did something else for a while. I went back to it before bed and cherry-picked what I actually wanted to see. Rusev/Reigns: Watched this live and didn't think much of it. Cruiserweight match: It sucked. Kendrick winning was a surprise, but he was arguably the MVP of the CWC, so I'm all for it. Owens/Rollins: Goofy as shit but exactly what I expected and fun for what it was. The women: Great match and worthy of the main event spot, even if the finish was deflating and a head-scratcher. I didn't care about anything else on the show. Maybe I missed "great rasslin'," but if I don't give a fuck about the characters, storylines, and matches, why bother? It doesn't sound like I missed anything important anyway. Do I love Bayley, Cesaro, and Enzo/Cass? Sure. But I can do without seeing them in meaningless matches, feuds, and situations that amount to nothing and don't mean anything 24 hours later. I think I'm going to be watching all future live events this way (except for NXT, which is short enough and good enough to watch live all the way through). I can't believe how much more enjoyable it was this way. Slogging through a bloated 3-4 hour PPV is an exercise in torturous masochism.

That's the point. If the "point" is to take away everything that made the CWC, Cruiserweights, and CW division stand out, compelling, and capable of drawing money, then mission accomplished.

The Perkins-Kendrick "please let me win because I bought you a Big Mac when you were homeless" storyline is atrocious and a slap in the face to everything the CWC represented. This six-man Cruiserweight jobber match feels like the Worst of Nitro. Other than Cedric Alexander and maybe the future potential of Daivari's brother, none of these guys mean anything or will ever draw a dime.

What if time travel already exists and that's how WWE was able to get the Last Battle of Atlanta footage? I'd go back in time to see Abraham Lincoln wrestle and live through a fascinating historical period on top of that. Why not, right?

One of the greatest commentary teams of all time, and I'm not even joking.

$20 a month is a total fucking joke. In comparison, an upcoming streaming service - FilmStruck, which will show "prestige" films and cater to hardcore movie buffs - will be priced at $6.99/$10.99, depending on which tier you get. Never mind that: Netflix is $10. Hell, WWE Network is $10. Yet, some podunk no-name indy rasslin' service thinks they're getting $20? Wow.