C.S.

Who Are You to Doubt El Dandy?!?! Name of worker: Bret Hart Promotion (and year): WCW (1999) Why you think it's great: Because El Dandy is a jam-up guy! Seriously, this promo is dismissed as meaningless comedy. While it's true that it never led to anything, it shows that Bret Hart was really underrated on the mic - especially in terms of comedy. He does so many little things right here, like making fun of Booker's pronunciation of ask (kind of racist, but still). Overall, he's loose, having fun, and kind of making himself laugh. We rarely saw Bret this happy and relaxed in WCW. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rygKxk3Svg4

"The View Never Changes" Name of worker: Dusty Rhodes Promotion (and year): WCW (1994) Why you think it's great: Pure passion. It felt real. It was real. Amazing! Good Ol' J.R. Heel Turn Name of worker: Jim Ross Promotion (and year): WWF (1996) Why you think it's great: It went nowhere and led to a horrendous angle, but the promo itself is a masterpiece. Not only is it one of the first of its kind in the WWF, it also "outed" Vince as the owner and was a precursor to the Attitude Era.

Ziggler had far more credibility with the fans as a main eventer than Waltman. Swagger wasn't credible or over at all, but if we use him as a barometer, we can make a case for pretty much anyone. Repo Man looks promising compared to Swagger back then. It hasn't been until much more recently - Real Americans, Rusev feud, etc. - that Swagger has really become interesting.

Can it really be said about Waltman? I don't see him main eventing in any era, even the current one. That doesn't make him bad - he's still great - but not everyone can be a main eventer. If he came around today or even ten years ago, there's no way he'd be picked ahead of Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, or even Rey Mysterio and Eddy Guerrero. Yeah, he was in WCW with Mysterio and Guerrero, but they all had comparable midcard pushes back then.

I'd argue that Waltman was stale long before 2002 - for at least a good year or two. Also, his last six months to a year as a heel 123 Kid was pretty dull because he never won or factored into any storylines. I'm talking about when he grew the goatee and jobbed to everyone. While that lack of push certainly wasn't his fault, it is what it is. For better or worse, Arn was always pushed. (Granted, losing to Renegade is probably worse than anything Waltman was put through, but Arn was still a title contender or champion before and after that feud.) Still, in general, you are correct - Waltman had pretty long stretches of greatness. I just think Arn had a longer stretch, and unlike Waltman, an uninterrupted stretch. Maybe it comes down to the push? Arn always had it - Waltman didn't. Is that fair? Maybe not, but that's life.

What a weird thread. Would love to know what inspired it. It's almost impossible to compare the two. Waltman is definitely underrated, and in a way, Arn is overrated, just because he gets SO much love. I love Arn myself, but a new fan who has never seen either of them may wonder what the hoopla surrounding Arn is all about. But like PeteF3 said, this is closer than you'd think. Waltman was actually used as Vince's barometer to test how good another worker was. When Jericho had bad matches with Waltman, Vince said something like, "You can't even have good matches with Pac. You ain't shit!" I'm wildly paraphrasing and probably grossly misremembering the quote, but that was the basic gist of it. It's in one of Jericho's books (I think the second one) if you want to check for yourself. Waltman's best was pretty damn good, but his worst is a slog to get through. Maybe he was always decent in the ring, but his character was SO stale for a while. Fair or not, that affected my enjoyment of his matches. I think Arn wins this round because he has always been consistent - in the ring, as a character, everything.

For some reason, I watched that Crazy Love special. It was on the live feed, and I needed something to fall asleep to. Nothing groundbreaking here - just a look at past romance angles, and various WWE and NXT personalities saying which wrestlers they'd date if they could. Renee Young gave every fan hope by picking Mick Foley. Anyway, the reason this is post-worthy is because Chyna was all over this special.

Rikishi at least flirted with the main event picture on a few occasions, which I think puts him above your average midcarder. Plus, his career as a midcarder - even in previous gimmicks like The Headshrinkers and The Sultan - is filled with fairly high-profile matches for that spot.

The simple answer is colorful, flashy characters - Macho Man, Rey, etc. That's what kids like. 1984 Mid-South (or whatever) may be your love, but that may not necessarily resonate with kids. Anything dull, dingy, and regional probably won't work with really young kids - at least not at first.

Because I didn't list every single JR signing, I'm not giving him credit? LOL, no. Most of your names fall into the categories I listed anyway: athlete, ex-WCW/ECW, indy, or 2nd/3rd gen wrestler. Very few were "WWE finds." The Hardys & Lita: Hardys may have predated JR, but my memory could be off. Lita came from ECW. Edge & Christian: Both did time in small Canadian indies. Mark Henry: Athlete Val Venis, D Lo Brown, Test, Crash Holly, Steve Blackman and lots of other memorable attitude era staples: Val was in Mexico, D-Lo was in SMW, Test was a Bret Hart discovery, Crash was in the indies (APW, etc.) as Erin O'Grady, Blackman was a martial arts guy and I think had indy experience, etc. Trish Stratus: Hosted an internet audio show, but probably qualifies as a WWE "find." John Cena: Worked California indies. Randy Orton: 3rd gen. Batista: WWE find, I think. Did try out for the WCW Power Plant, but Dewayne "Yee Haw" Bruce had no idea what he had in Batista. Redneck idiot! Shelton Benjamin: College athlete Charlie Haas: Either a college athlete or a WWE find - I can't remember which. Carlito: 2nd gen, worked Puerto Rico Chris Masters: WWE find? Dolph Ziggler: WWE find? Damien Sandow: WWE find? That stacks up fairly evenly with Triple H IMO, keeping in mind that JR did the job for almost a decade vs. H with much less time. If a lot of the current NXT roster pans out on the main stage, Triple H would have done a lot in far less time. Of course, with fickle Vince and Dunn in control of their futures, that remains to be seen.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. Where were JR's fresh recruits? Most of his hires were from WCW, ECW, and smaller indies. Nothing wrong with that, of course. It was smart business. The only exceptions are The Rock (who got handed to the WWE on a silver platter because Rocky Johnson knew Pat Patterson), Kurt Angle, and Brock Lesnar. Yeah, those are three pretty big exceptions, but let's examine them... Rock: Third-generation superstar. There will always be more of those wrestlers' kids. H has already gotten Charlotte and will get others. Angle and Lesnar: Legitimate athletes. Wrestling was red hot back then. Much easier to attract those types of talents. H's legacy in this department, I'm guessing, will probably be snagging a UFC guy or two down the road after their careers in the cage wind down. Plus, it's kind of lopsided to compare JR and H just yet, when JR was around a lot longer in that position and we have the benefit of being able to examine his entire tenure as the head of Talent Relations in the rearview mirror. Edit: Also, acting like H is only cherry-picking "famous" guys from major indies and overseas (Kevin Owens, Finn Balor, Hideo Itami, etc.) is ignoring most of the NXT roster. Where the hell did Tyler Breeze come from? Bayley? Bull Dempsey? Sasha Banks? etc. Who ever heard of any of these people before NXT? I'm assuming most/all of them were in smaller indies, but they didn't have any major buzz until now. H deserves credit for finding and developing those darkhorses.

Well... Taker did shove J.R.'s face in Vince's ass to turn heel.

Not necessarily. A post from page 4 of the Bryan Microscope thread: So, yeah, kids definitely dig Bryan too.

From Wiki (I know, not the most reliable source, but I remember reading something along these lines elsewhere too): Nemeth later revealed in Colt Cabana's Art of Wrestling Podcast that he chose the name "Dolph" because that was his great grandfather's name and he said that his friend suggested the name "Ziggler".

Hilarious how everyone shit on me in another thread for daring to suggest that Chyna belongs in the HOF, and now that very topic is dominating half of this thread and got Austin's endorsement. Triple H, though, made a good point about what an 8-year-old would find if they googled her. He handled the question very well, I thought. The beginning of the podcast in general was the weakest, but once Austin started asking more loaded questions, it got good. This wasn't on par with the Vince interview, but it made for a nice companion piece to it - which I suspect was Austin's aim anyway. Based on this, do we dare think that Bryan has any chance in hell of facing Brock at WrestleMania?

Here's what's really bizarre... The match was not live. It was pre-taped. Any blood - what little there was - could've been edited out before Uncensored aired. What a bullshit firing by a bunch of incompetent yokels. Typical WCW for you.

Came in here to post exactly these two things. When did the WWE get the rights to the GWF? I would LOVE all of those episodes to end up on the Network eventually. I know the moon rock stuff would be shit on today (and probably was back then by Meltzer and sheet readers), but I loved the hell out of "Maniac" Mike Davis.

Yeah, Dustin being better off in WCW is only true from an in-ring perspective. In every other way, jumping to the WWF was the right and only move to make. Goldust gave him career longevity that he never would've had otherwise. Look at Cody Rhodes as a perfect example - career midcarder under his own name and bland persona, and ineffective as a Goldust clone. Cody's trajectory is basically what Dustin Rhodes in WCW would've been - plain old Dustin and then some crappy gimmick during the nWo era. Edit - Don't get me wrong: I loved the fuck out of "plain old Dustin," but that would not have had legs in the nWo era of WCW.

Nothing personal against you, doc, but I honestly despise bullshit sentiments like this whenever I see them on message boards. The whole, "oh, I'm above all of this, and why are you getting worked up when there are more important things to worry about?" attitude just smacks of false piety to me. Of course, world affairs, personal problems, etc. are "more important" - but we're on a wrestling forum, so it's perfectly fine to get angry about wrestling here.

Anyone watch the WWE 24 behind-the-scenes special about WM XXX? While it did take us backstage during the event, it didn't really reveal nearly as much as I thought it would. I guess I expected too much. It felt like mostly fluff. The Connor Michalek stuff still gets to me. So sad.

Worst Rumble match ever? Don't know if that's irrational anger or the truth. Bryan being eliminated that early was complete and utter bullshit, and Bray being thrown out like nothing after being in there for so long was pointless - not to mention all of the other dull eliminations that had no impact. Whoever laid out this Rumble must've been asleep. Reigns winning got completely shit on by the live crowd, and even Rock couldn't save the day. I've never seen someone so overprotected (Rock endorsement, Rusev elimination, Authority coming in for a heel reaction, etc.) and it meaning less than it did tonight. I feel genuinely bad for poor Roman, because if the WWE hadn't forced it and let him come into his own for another year, he would've been fine. Now it's just Lex Express 2.0. Bubba was a fun surprise, but did R-Truth becoming D-Von strike anyone else as racist? "Oh, he's black too, so no one will be able to tell the difference." It was lame as hell and immediately cooled Bubba off as just another midcard act IMO. If he's only coming in for this one match, using silly nostalgia is fine. But if he's back for good, this was a shitty way to go about it. The World Title match was a lot of fun - definitely an early MOTY contender. But I do think Brock over-relies on the German Suplex, which baffles me, because he's not Reigns - he knows more than five moves.

From Inquisitr.com (a site I've never heard of, so take it with a grain of salt): ...a humiliating mic gaffe that occurred at the latest SmackDown taping may be the straw that finally broke the camel’s back, thus burying the WrestleMania anointed one once and for all. Just what did Reigns say that would make the entire company face-palm and draw up a new main event? Well, according to reports from individuals who were at the taping, he said Andre the Giant “never referred to himself as a giant” while cutting a promo directed at the Big Show. The comment drew immediate guffaws, retweets, and reddit comments... http://www.inquisitr.com/1779607/wwe-roman-reigns-humiliating-smackdown-moment-may-be-end-of-wrestlemania-hopes/ This is the first I've heard of this "gaffe" being mentioned or treated as a big deal in any way. Changing the WM main event because of it - if Roman is still indeed in the plans for that - seems unlikely to me, but WWE has been pettier in the past. What do you all think?

I would love to see them at #1 and #2 and then be the final two at the end. The crowd would be something else. I'd love Bryan to be #1 and Reigns to be #30 (or at least a pretty high number). The reactions online would be priceless.

Not Russo alone, because he was in and out. It was a revolving door of bad bookers, worse ideas, and inept management. Who can forget that horrible Nitro under Kevin Sullivan's watch, which saw Hogan have a staredown with Wall, who was on top of a building from a distance no one but a superhero could see. That wasn't Russo. I'd argue that the Sullivan regime, post-Russo, was far worse than anything Russo ever did. Remember The Dog? I realize Sullivan had success previously, but that didn't translate the second (third?) time around. But I'm not blaming Sullivan either. WCW was dead in the water by then.

I thought the "Death of WCW" book was a fun, if informal, read. Those expecting it to be the Bible of WCW's demise, however, are bound to be disappointed. I never had such lofty expectations for the book, so I liked it for what it was. I do think the blame Vince Russo gets for WCW's death is ridiculous, though. The ship had already been sinking long before he got there. Also, he had to deal with a myriad of political bullshit, which wasn't the case as much in the WWE where he had more "protected" status. Anyone would do worse in those conditions. Plus, he left and came back, etc., so it stands to reason that a lot of his time was devoted to putting out political fires and dealing with the mess that was WCW's internal structure instead of just being able to concentrate on his job. I'm not being a blind Russo defender and apologist - a lot of his ideas were indeed bad - but his stints in the WWF and WCW are apples and oranges. In the WWF, he was given the support he needed and a fighting chance to succeed. That wasn't the case in WCW, which was already a toxic environment, with several people out to undermine him at every turn. It's like an average student: Give him help, support, and encouragement - he's bound to do better. But criticize him, write him off, and penalize him - he's only going to sink further down. "Russo killed WCW" is a lazy, simplistic, brain-dead argument that deliberately ignores the details and nuances of the situation. If that's why everyone is criticizing the book, then I agree.