C.S.

I can only speak for myself... I wrote my comments before I read most of the thread. I actually do like Balor, and Neville has grown on me (I didn't like him at first). Their match was okay to me, but it's not the type of style I tend to enjoy. The main event also underwhelmed me somewhat, and I love both of those guys. My favorite was the women's match.

I have no desire to see Shawn Michaels come back. That's not to say it wouldn't be cool as hell - I like HBK - but for once, it would be nice for a retired wrestler to, ya know, stay retired.

I didn't love the Neville/Balor match, but I will say that Neville has grown on me over the past few months. I didn't like him before at all.

You're right. It's weird, because Arn always seemed "older" than Tully to me, and older than his age in general. The upside of that is that Arn has "aged well" because he hasn't changed much - like Wilford Brimley, who was much younger than you'd think in "Cocoon" and doesn't look too far off from that even now (or as of a few years ago at least).

I'd give Russo the credit for seeing enough in them to push them. That would've been more his call than Ross's. They didn't get real contracts until the Attitude Era or thereabouts, from what I remember reading in the Hardys book.

Arn had more longevity. Yes, part of that was because Tully was his own worst enemy and didn't get rehired by WCW because of drugs after The Brainbusters finished up with the WWF...or at least that's the way I always heard it. Years later, Tully made a comeback in ECW, but didn't he bomb there against Shane Douglas? Arn would have easily won that audience over. Hell, if his less skilled (but still decent) doppleganger CW Anderson could get over, Arn definitely would've. Also, when WWE hired Tully for behind-the-scenes work, JBL apparently dressed him down for being such a prick earlier in their careers, and I think that was the end of Tully in the WWE. Arn, on the other hand, has been a respected agent for years. Still, even if we're only comparing them between the ropes, Arn lasted longer. Doesn't matter or why, just that he did. Those are the facts.

My thoughts: - To whoever asked if they were the only one who liked Bull Dempsey, I like him a lot too. I posted this elsewhere about Bull Dempsey and Baron Corbin: Baron Corbin does nothing for me. He's a "look" and that's it - and not even an intimidating one at that IMO. It also doesn't help that some jokester obviously lifted the name from indy wrestler Darin Corbin, which I doubt is just a coincidence. Very stupid and disrespectful "rib," if that's what it is. Bull Dempsey is so much better and more interesting, if you ask me. Unfortunately, his "look" kind of sucks. Seriously, with his long hair and women's bathing suit tights, he looks like a male version of Rosie O'Donnell. Come on, think about it... You all see it now too. But that's what NXT is for - so these kids can iron out the wrinkles. Corbin can and hopefully will improve, and Bull will hopefully tweak his lousy gear. Cool finish in tonight's match though - came out of nowhere - but I wish the record wasn't Bull: 0, Baron: 3. - The women's match was the best of the night. Yeah, I said it, and I mean it without any irony. Everyone worked their asses off. Even Becky Lynch impressed the hell out of me tonight, and she's never made an impression on me until now. I also dug the aftermath with both Charlotte and Sasha Banks crying and then grudgingly snapping back into character. The tears worked better for them than Kevin Owens after his match. - Hideo Itami and Tyler Breeze had a much better match 2-3 weeks ago, but this was still okay for what it was. IMO, Itami didn't get enough offense and really needs a heel turn. Tyler Breeze is the sleeper talent of NXT. He has it all - in-ring skills, looks, charisma, personality, flashy costumes, a fully developed character...everything. - Finn Balor's entrance seemed too long and overwrought to me this time. It was cool as hell the first time, but it felt like it took forever tonight. The match itself was fun enough, but I don't really love that spotty, indy, high flying for the sake of it style. - The NXT fans are too "smart" for their own good. Lots of irritating indy-type "this is awesome" chants, dueling name chants, etc. It's annoying and takes away from the show for me. But I guess that's inevitable with NXT presenting itself as an indy alternative. - The main event was good, but I have to admit I'm not usually a fan of such one-sided matches. Maybe I just had unreasonably high expectations? It's no exaggeration that I've been looking forward to this match more than anything we'll likely see at WrestleMania. Still, Owens and Zayn are awesome. They told a great story. I don't know whether I think the finish was cool as hell or frustrating to me as a fan. Then again, a knockout ending is something we maybe should've seen coming. Hey, the guy has been wearing a "KO" shirt for the past two months. The crowd reactions to the finish were flat-out amazing though. It felt like those people were watching the Undertaker lose his streak all over again. I can nitpick, yeah - and I did - but NXT is always guaranteed to be a boatload of fun no matter what. That's what's so great about it.

Who Are You to Doubt El Dandy?!?! Name of worker: Bret Hart Promotion (and year): WCW (1999) Why you think it's great: Because El Dandy is a jam-up guy! Seriously, this promo is dismissed as meaningless comedy. While it's true that it never led to anything, it shows that Bret Hart was really underrated on the mic - especially in terms of comedy. He does so many little things right here, like making fun of Booker's pronunciation of ask (kind of racist, but still). Overall, he's loose, having fun, and kind of making himself laugh. We rarely saw Bret this happy and relaxed in WCW. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rygKxk3Svg4

"The View Never Changes" Name of worker: Dusty Rhodes Promotion (and year): WCW (1994) Why you think it's great: Pure passion. It felt real. It was real. Amazing! Good Ol' J.R. Heel Turn Name of worker: Jim Ross Promotion (and year): WWF (1996) Why you think it's great: It went nowhere and led to a horrendous angle, but the promo itself is a masterpiece. Not only is it one of the first of its kind in the WWF, it also "outed" Vince as the owner and was a precursor to the Attitude Era.

Ziggler had far more credibility with the fans as a main eventer than Waltman. Swagger wasn't credible or over at all, but if we use him as a barometer, we can make a case for pretty much anyone. Repo Man looks promising compared to Swagger back then. It hasn't been until much more recently - Real Americans, Rusev feud, etc. - that Swagger has really become interesting.

Can it really be said about Waltman? I don't see him main eventing in any era, even the current one. That doesn't make him bad - he's still great - but not everyone can be a main eventer. If he came around today or even ten years ago, there's no way he'd be picked ahead of Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, or even Rey Mysterio and Eddy Guerrero. Yeah, he was in WCW with Mysterio and Guerrero, but they all had comparable midcard pushes back then.

I'd argue that Waltman was stale long before 2002 - for at least a good year or two. Also, his last six months to a year as a heel 123 Kid was pretty dull because he never won or factored into any storylines. I'm talking about when he grew the goatee and jobbed to everyone. While that lack of push certainly wasn't his fault, it is what it is. For better or worse, Arn was always pushed. (Granted, losing to Renegade is probably worse than anything Waltman was put through, but Arn was still a title contender or champion before and after that feud.) Still, in general, you are correct - Waltman had pretty long stretches of greatness. I just think Arn had a longer stretch, and unlike Waltman, an uninterrupted stretch. Maybe it comes down to the push? Arn always had it - Waltman didn't. Is that fair? Maybe not, but that's life.

What a weird thread. Would love to know what inspired it. It's almost impossible to compare the two. Waltman is definitely underrated, and in a way, Arn is overrated, just because he gets SO much love. I love Arn myself, but a new fan who has never seen either of them may wonder what the hoopla surrounding Arn is all about. But like PeteF3 said, this is closer than you'd think. Waltman was actually used as Vince's barometer to test how good another worker was. When Jericho had bad matches with Waltman, Vince said something like, "You can't even have good matches with Pac. You ain't shit!" I'm wildly paraphrasing and probably grossly misremembering the quote, but that was the basic gist of it. It's in one of Jericho's books (I think the second one) if you want to check for yourself. Waltman's best was pretty damn good, but his worst is a slog to get through. Maybe he was always decent in the ring, but his character was SO stale for a while. Fair or not, that affected my enjoyment of his matches. I think Arn wins this round because he has always been consistent - in the ring, as a character, everything.

For some reason, I watched that Crazy Love special. It was on the live feed, and I needed something to fall asleep to. Nothing groundbreaking here - just a look at past romance angles, and various WWE and NXT personalities saying which wrestlers they'd date if they could. Renee Young gave every fan hope by picking Mick Foley. Anyway, the reason this is post-worthy is because Chyna was all over this special.

Rikishi at least flirted with the main event picture on a few occasions, which I think puts him above your average midcarder. Plus, his career as a midcarder - even in previous gimmicks like The Headshrinkers and The Sultan - is filled with fairly high-profile matches for that spot.

The simple answer is colorful, flashy characters - Macho Man, Rey, etc. That's what kids like. 1984 Mid-South (or whatever) may be your love, but that may not necessarily resonate with kids. Anything dull, dingy, and regional probably won't work with really young kids - at least not at first.

Because I didn't list every single JR signing, I'm not giving him credit? LOL, no. Most of your names fall into the categories I listed anyway: athlete, ex-WCW/ECW, indy, or 2nd/3rd gen wrestler. Very few were "WWE finds." The Hardys & Lita: Hardys may have predated JR, but my memory could be off. Lita came from ECW. Edge & Christian: Both did time in small Canadian indies. Mark Henry: Athlete Val Venis, D Lo Brown, Test, Crash Holly, Steve Blackman and lots of other memorable attitude era staples: Val was in Mexico, D-Lo was in SMW, Test was a Bret Hart discovery, Crash was in the indies (APW, etc.) as Erin O'Grady, Blackman was a martial arts guy and I think had indy experience, etc. Trish Stratus: Hosted an internet audio show, but probably qualifies as a WWE "find." John Cena: Worked California indies. Randy Orton: 3rd gen. Batista: WWE find, I think. Did try out for the WCW Power Plant, but Dewayne "Yee Haw" Bruce had no idea what he had in Batista. Redneck idiot! Shelton Benjamin: College athlete Charlie Haas: Either a college athlete or a WWE find - I can't remember which. Carlito: 2nd gen, worked Puerto Rico Chris Masters: WWE find? Dolph Ziggler: WWE find? Damien Sandow: WWE find? That stacks up fairly evenly with Triple H IMO, keeping in mind that JR did the job for almost a decade vs. H with much less time. If a lot of the current NXT roster pans out on the main stage, Triple H would have done a lot in far less time. Of course, with fickle Vince and Dunn in control of their futures, that remains to be seen.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. Where were JR's fresh recruits? Most of his hires were from WCW, ECW, and smaller indies. Nothing wrong with that, of course. It was smart business. The only exceptions are The Rock (who got handed to the WWE on a silver platter because Rocky Johnson knew Pat Patterson), Kurt Angle, and Brock Lesnar. Yeah, those are three pretty big exceptions, but let's examine them... Rock: Third-generation superstar. There will always be more of those wrestlers' kids. H has already gotten Charlotte and will get others. Angle and Lesnar: Legitimate athletes. Wrestling was red hot back then. Much easier to attract those types of talents. H's legacy in this department, I'm guessing, will probably be snagging a UFC guy or two down the road after their careers in the cage wind down. Plus, it's kind of lopsided to compare JR and H just yet, when JR was around a lot longer in that position and we have the benefit of being able to examine his entire tenure as the head of Talent Relations in the rearview mirror. Edit: Also, acting like H is only cherry-picking "famous" guys from major indies and overseas (Kevin Owens, Finn Balor, Hideo Itami, etc.) is ignoring most of the NXT roster. Where the hell did Tyler Breeze come from? Bayley? Bull Dempsey? Sasha Banks? etc. Who ever heard of any of these people before NXT? I'm assuming most/all of them were in smaller indies, but they didn't have any major buzz until now. H deserves credit for finding and developing those darkhorses.

Well... Taker did shove J.R.'s face in Vince's ass to turn heel.

Not necessarily. A post from page 4 of the Bryan Microscope thread: So, yeah, kids definitely dig Bryan too.

From Wiki (I know, not the most reliable source, but I remember reading something along these lines elsewhere too): Nemeth later revealed in Colt Cabana's Art of Wrestling Podcast that he chose the name "Dolph" because that was his great grandfather's name and he said that his friend suggested the name "Ziggler".

Hilarious how everyone shit on me in another thread for daring to suggest that Chyna belongs in the HOF, and now that very topic is dominating half of this thread and got Austin's endorsement. Triple H, though, made a good point about what an 8-year-old would find if they googled her. He handled the question very well, I thought. The beginning of the podcast in general was the weakest, but once Austin started asking more loaded questions, it got good. This wasn't on par with the Vince interview, but it made for a nice companion piece to it - which I suspect was Austin's aim anyway. Based on this, do we dare think that Bryan has any chance in hell of facing Brock at WrestleMania?

Here's what's really bizarre... The match was not live. It was pre-taped. Any blood - what little there was - could've been edited out before Uncensored aired. What a bullshit firing by a bunch of incompetent yokels. Typical WCW for you.

Came in here to post exactly these two things. When did the WWE get the rights to the GWF? I would LOVE all of those episodes to end up on the Network eventually. I know the moon rock stuff would be shit on today (and probably was back then by Meltzer and sheet readers), but I loved the hell out of "Maniac" Mike Davis.

Yeah, Dustin being better off in WCW is only true from an in-ring perspective. In every other way, jumping to the WWF was the right and only move to make. Goldust gave him career longevity that he never would've had otherwise. Look at Cody Rhodes as a perfect example - career midcarder under his own name and bland persona, and ineffective as a Goldust clone. Cody's trajectory is basically what Dustin Rhodes in WCW would've been - plain old Dustin and then some crappy gimmick during the nWo era. Edit - Don't get me wrong: I loved the fuck out of "plain old Dustin," but that would not have had legs in the nWo era of WCW.