El McKell

I think your reaction is a bit much their Grimmas. They're just trying to point out that detracting from Shawn for Adam Cole isn't a good argument (although I think calling it 'gatekeeping' is also silly) If we really wanted to make your analogy sort of work we'd have to be talking about how Goldberg's salary affects Buddy-Lee Parker's (or whoever the fuck you think was an influence on Goldberg) case. But I don't think saying holding something against someone is stupid is the same as saying that thing is a point in their favour. There's no real way to show that you're wrong for not thinking Shawn is an all-time great. I'm presuming you must have seen what he did in that Kurt Angle wrestlemania match or the hour long match with John Cena or dozens of other matches in his post comeback run where I love everything he does and you just don't enjoy that kind of thing.

I did not like this nearly as much as you guys. Tony Oilver does show good heel offense here and I liked the back and forth exchange with weird roll ups. But this was very long for what it was and outlasted it's welcome with me. And I really didn't like the spots where the ref armbarred Oliver or puched him in the face, it took away from Royal's comebacks to have things like that kick them off.

I just went through this thread and there's a lot of wrestlers mentioned here still not nominated. I don't think I'd vote for any of them, some of them are good, some of them are bad and a lot of them i've never heard of (and one is someone I know as a world of sport referee who the commentator likes to mention used to be a wrestler). I want to give this thread a bump incase someone wants a list of wrestlers not nominated that someone at some point thought would be worth considering. The list of wrestlers mentioned in this thread who still have not been nominated is: ⦁ D-Lo Brown ⦁ Val Venis ⦁ Jack Evans ⦁ Mammoth Sasaki ⦁ Yuko Miyamoto ⦁ Mitch Ryder ⦁ Tazz ⦁ Archie Gouldie/The Mongolian Stomper ⦁ Ryuki Ueyama ⦁ Wataru Sakata ⦁ Hiroyuki Ito ⦁ Osamu Kido ⦁ Hiro Saito ⦁ Manabu Suruga ⦁ Universo Dos Mil ⦁ Angel Mortal ⦁ Bearcat Wright ⦁ Mimi Hagiwara ⦁ Lucy Kayama ⦁ Noriyo Tateno ⦁ Sumie Sakai ⦁ Alan Kilby ⦁ Sid Cooper ⦁ Robby Baron ⦁ TJP/TJ Perkins ⦁ Kengo Mashimo ⦁ Preston Quinn ⦁ Tony Salazar ⦁ Ultraman ⦁ Skayde/Jorge Rivera ⦁ Kris Travis ⦁ Mark Andrews ⦁ Dave Mastiff ⦁ Randy Colley/Moondog Rex ⦁ Steve Bradley ⦁ BxB Hulk ⦁ Human Tornado ⦁ Americo Rossa ⦁ Villano V ⦁ Gran Cochisse ⦁ Primo Colon ⦁ Ryuji Yamakawa ⦁ LuFisto ⦁ The Miz ⦁ Shelton Benjamin ⦁ Sarah Stock/Dark Angel ⦁ Davey Boy Smith Jr/Harry Smith ⦁ Madusa Micelli ⦁ Lance Storm ⦁ Johnny Smith ⦁ Drew Delight ⦁ The Spoiler ⦁ Gran Naniwa ⦁ Brian Christopher/Grandmasta Sexay ⦁ KAORU ⦁ Little Tokyo ⦁ Baby Face/Babe Face ⦁ Dave Bond ⦁ Ephesto ⦁ Yusuke Fuke ⦁ Tommy Gilbert ⦁ Jimmy Hart ⦁ Sonny King ⦁ Oficale 911 ⦁ Shunji Kosugi ⦁ Johnny Kwango ⦁ Mike Marino ⦁ Rick McGraw ⦁ Dokonjonosuke Mishima ⦁ Mitsuo Momota ⦁ Buck Robley ⦁ “Suicida” Mike Segura ⦁ Huracán Sevilla ⦁ El Signo ⦁ El Solitario ⦁ Super Strong Machine ⦁ George Takano ⦁ Clay Thomson ⦁ Victor Zangief ⦁ Zatura ⦁ SUWA ⦁ Blitzkrieg ⦁ Killer Karl Kox ⦁ Don Leo Johnathan ⦁ Dino Bravo ⦁ Tojo Yamamoto

Umaga Excellent at playing a monster, terrifying prescence, knows exactly how much to give an opponent, breaking out occasional explosive quickness just enough to make it special when he does it. Legit isn't even that big but comes across like he's huge with how he carries himself. A good comparison for him is Mark Henry as someone who is from the same place and time and also really 'gets it' whenit comes to being a monster big man. But unlike Henry, Umaga stepped it up and had great matches when it was asked of him with CM Punk, Jeff Hardy and in an all time classic with John Cena. w/D-Lo Brown vs Keiji Mutoh & Bob Sapp (AJPW - 22nd February 2004) vs Brian Kendrick (21st Janurary 2008) vs John Cena (28th January 2007)

Just someone I was surprised hadn't been nominated: Sara Del Rey I'm probably not the person to make the case for Sara Del Rey but surely some people will want to vote for her. Probably would have been the consensus pick for best women's wrestler in North America during the late 00s or early 10s. One of the MVPs of Shimmer for a number of years, good in Chikara when Chikara was good. Good as both a heel and a babyface and understood how to change how she carried herself for whatever role she was in. People who've seen more of her than me can explain why she's good in th thread Here' some good easily available matches: vs Mercedes Martinez (November 6th 2005) vs Lacey (June 2nd 2007) w/Claudio Castagnoli vs Mike Quackenbush & Manami Toyota (September 19th 2010)

Austin Aries was not the wrestler of the year, but that run was so cool. If you're considering Aries I wholehardly recommend his matches against Bully Ray, Samoa Joe & Bobby Roode from 3 straight pay per views during the summer. Honestly Impact was the best wrestling going for like 8 weeks during early summer 2012.

The extra revenue streams are NJPW world, much more merchandise (all those stupid rainmaker towels & Naito stuffed bears you'd see loads of fans with), higher ticket prices for shows and licencing their intellectual property for dumb mobile games. But yeah, Okada would have got in even without NJPW doing good business because as El-P says Okada is viewed by many people as among the best in-ring performers of all time.

NJPW had record revenue in 2019. Barely topping the 90s peak, and being at pretty much that same level in 2017 & 2018 too.

When it comes to ‘83 I think all we have footage of is the famous hair match with Sangre Chicana & a trios where he’s teaming with Espanto & Satanico against Chicana, La Fiera & Mocho Cota.

And if you're looking for something specific from Portland that isn't in mmcoor's link above try here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm1Agigv7k8z5EzSemcNSVA

He does more in that match than he gave himself credit for, but I guess its a better story to say he was on his back for most of the match

The age bar is definitely two low, 7 of the people removed from the ballot this year for getting too few votes are people still actively adding to their cases, it's silly.

I think it's very obvious that Harwood/Dawson is the better of the two. I legitimately can't think of a long-term tag team with a bigger gap between the better and worse performer, even with the High Fliers it's not as clear that Brunzell is better than Greg Gagne.

If you think she was good in that 1st TNA run from 2010 to 2013 fair enough, but to me she was no different at that time to the other ex-WWE performers (Mr Anderson/Kennedy, RVD etc) in there doing nothing worth watching

I think it's worth pointing out that before Jetlag posted we had no discussion of Mickie James, and now we have at least some among the arguing about what should and shouldn't be posted. Anyway Mickie James isn't good enough for my top 100. Huge portions of her career where she did nothing of note, highs that are good but not all-time classics, competent but not outstanding when it comes to execution, only very rarely does she do as Grimmas says and "really play up drama to make very emotional matches"

There's two of those matches, do you know which one they were talking about?

So in a way, Blink-182 drew the most people to non-WWF wrestling shows in the US during 2001

I wanna talk about this part of the post, cos I'm not on the same page here. Triple H to me is clearly a top 100 guy, Orton is an edge case. And I don't think Bryan ever had anything resembling a real great match with The Miz or Bray Wyatt.

Maybe someone else knows better but I think you'd have to contact Will/Goodhelmet, you can DM him on here (although I dunno if he's still active here), or on reddit i assume this is him . If you can't get your hands on the actual sets you can see what was on them under the "DVDVR Best of the 1980s Voting Results" section on this site, the overwhelming majority of the matches are available on youtube, dailymotion or theditch.

God I love the Kyle O'Reilly match during that run.

Orton was the best wrestler in WWE by a mile, by far his best year. But I think Hiroshi Tanahashi had a better year & maybe Davey Richards did too

It’s so clearly Shawn Michaels to me. 3 matches on PPV that in my mind are true classics, vs Diesel, Mankind & the iron man with Bret. He also had Sid’s best ever match at Survivor Series

95% chance Serena Deeb will not make my list but I wanna post this match that I really like, where Deeb carries a kid who'd been wrestling for less than 2 years and makes her look like she's great

Thanks for that I should've thought of that

This might be an annoying thing to ask, but with placetobenation.com dead is there any chance we can get Loss' list posted somewhere, maybe just in this thread? I just want to use it as a bit of a guide when deciding what to watch.