FMKK

Or having a choice really

It seems very bizarre to me that you're so desperate to defend Moolah just because she was a star when you were growing up watching wrestling.

Who are these people?

Yeah, literally the only other person I could think of for Goldberg is Bischoff.

Would it be wild and unlikely for Vince to do it?

Oh my god that Stephanie and HHH training video was incredible

Roman bumped like a champ for that beating but I dont know if I agree with Brock killing him two weeks running. The match at Mania will be a banger though

They've tied it into the angle in their reporting but I guess that's only natural

WWE.com reporting that Shane McMahon has been hospitalised with diverticulitis, though there's a chance it could be a work.

I feel like, troll or otherwise, a few interesting points about realism were raised so I dont see the issue in the conversation railing off in that direction

I'm probably stretching it by now, but if you saw a wrestling match, and then the exact same match again except this time with extremely loose moves, punches and dropkicks that miss by a mile and the other guy still bumps, visible cooperation for the moves etc, would both matche be equally good? If I saw a play and one of the actors pulled out his script to check the lines it would impact the quality of the performance but it would be because of poor execution rather than realism of the story or whatever

Ok, so whereas we can't really say anything as far as Bryan is concerned, because he never worked in NOAH as a main eventer, we can state the fact AJ Styles has actually mastered Kings Roadtm, and he is the one who should really be put on the same level as Misawa, Kobashi & Kawada. It's the EL-P O from outta nowhere!

None of the old-school style stuff was "realistic". I just watched that video of that French wrestler in the 60's explaining how things work, despite the whole "kayfabe" stuff, pro-wrestling has always been seen for what it was, a carny trick. It never prevented the emotional involvment because real emotions don't need "realism" as a vehicule to be produced on and by a crowd. And yeah, AJ Styles is a great, great fucking pro-wrestler. As far as realism goes in pro-wrestling, I feel like it's an aesthetic above all. To me its almost synonymous with something being 'gritty' in that it favours a down to earth presentation, emphasises physicality, good working punches etc. So I don't see the problem with using it in that context s long as no one is under any illusions about the actual realism of pro-wrestling lol. I agree with the bolded parts. Then again, All Japan in the 90's was super gritty, but although I would use the term, or "stiff", you can always poke holes all over it in term of what I think shodate refers to as "realism" (but maybe I'm wrong, after all, he mentionned Yasha Kurenai in his HOF. YASHA FUCKING KURENAI !!!), which I understand as something looking the most "real" as in how a "real professionnal wrestling" match would look. Hey, I'm an old-school shoot-style fan, Tamura, Han & Khousaka were my heroes at one point, so I'm all for that aesthetic. But to disparage workers because they don't work that particular way (or toward that kind of execution of holds and strikes) seems kinda odd to me. Hell, if we're talking about the stiff and gritty, more "realistic" style of All Japan, no one was as awkward and unrealistic as Akira Taue. Maybe shodate doesn't like Taue though... Oh, yeah, Daniel Bryan. Well he's great too. I don't think it makes much sense to disparage AJ Styles of all people on these grounds. Different strokes for different folks in terms of working styles I guess. People value different things in their pro-wrestling. I'm really not a fan of those super choreographed looking Ospreay vs Ricochet matches for example and people often cite those as being bad because of a lack of 'realism' but to me it's something more to do with preferring matches that look less rehearsed and harking back to workers that called it in the ring? Maybe I'm misreading that but that's certainly part of why I don't like them so much.

None of the old-school style stuff was "realistic". I just watched that video of that French wrestler in the 60's explaining how things work, despite the whole "kayfabe" stuff, pro-wrestling has always been seen for what it was, a carny trick. It never prevented the emotional involvment because real emotions don't need "realism" as a vehicule to be produced on and by a crowd. And yeah, AJ Styles is a great, great fucking pro-wrestler. As far as realism goes in pro-wrestling, I feel like it's an aesthetic above all. To me its almost synonymous with something being 'gritty' in that it favours a down to earth presentation, emphasises physicality, good working punches etc. Everyone knows it's pro-wrestling and it's not on the up and up but it's about producing matches/angles that seek to capture the look/feel of a real fight or struggle within the confines of professional wrestling as opposed to the more striking fantasy elements (OTT gimmicks and the like) or the acrobatic stunt shows (think of any Will Ospreay match). I think everyone is basically aware of that being what we mean when we use the term 'realism' to describe wrestling. So I don't see the problem with using it in that context s long as no one is under any illusions about the actual realism of pro-wrestling lol.

I wonder if this line of thought was something that Steve himself was conscious of and it motivated him to have his run as a super worker in 2001? He seems quite conscious of his own legacy and very thoughtful about his work.

Roman for me was still pretty green here. His mannerisms and facials just weren't there yet. For me he took the leap when he started his program with AJ at Payback 2016. He became the total package then and hasn't looked back. I think his best match is the Lesnar one from 2015 though. I'd say that's maybe when it came together for him in my opinion. I rewatched the Bryan Fastlane match recently and while he was good there, he was more of a blank slate than he was even a month later.

Apter's not a journalist and never really purported to be one, except in kayfabe terms. (Maybe he did in his earliest days covering boxing? Not sure about that.) So you can't judge them by the same standards. why was he up on the WON HOF then and people hold PWI 500 highly fan wise Who exactly holds the PWI 500 highly in 2018? I also dont think theres such a thing as unbiased journalism. Which is fine as long as people try to understand all sides of what theyre covering and are up front about their own positions.

If that is true then once he signs a new contract for several years WWE could just turn round and say no you cant wrestle we ve changed our mind and Bryan would be stuck. Why would they do that though? It's not in their interests. And I think he'd have a strong legal case under those circumstances. I'm with Loss on this one. I don't think there's a grand conspiracy. I believe they genuinely did not want a beloved guy to be debilitated on their watch. Though I do think business concerns might have added a little urgency to the timing of his reinstatement. I dont even know what the conspiracy is supposed to be. That WWE would rather have Bryan Danielson under contract than wrestling elsewhere because hes a popular star? Alright then. This is by no means the source of all the conspiracy, especially not jmare in this thread, but there's a widespread belief in some circles that WWE wants to keep him out of the ring so he can't upstage Roman Reigns, but locked up so he can't go anywhere else either. They seem perfectly happy for Reigns to get mixed reactions and they play to it often enough in the booking. They also have a split roster now and have been pushing AJ Styles as the top babyface of one of them for coming up to a year. So I find that charge quite hard to believe. Im with your assessment here.

If that is true then once he signs a new contract for several years WWE could just turn round and say no you cant wrestle we ve changed our mind and Bryan would be stuck. Why would they do that though? It's not in their interests. And I think he'd have a strong legal case under those circumstances. I'm with Loss on this one. I don't think there's a grand conspiracy. I believe they genuinely did not want a beloved guy to be debilitated on their watch. Though I do think business concerns might have added a little urgency to the timing of his reinstatement. I dont even know what the conspiracy is supposed to be. That WWE would rather have Bryan Danielson under contract than wrestling elsewhere because hes a popular star? Alright then.

With Vince it's the fact that Bryan would easily go back on the Indies for less money rather than being one of the top paid guys on the roster with a top spot. I'm sure he has a hand full or two of guys he wants to have programs with in WWE but there's probably more outside of WWE Eh. WWE is so loaded right now, though. He’s going to have plenty of people to have great matches with. It’s not like he’s staying with WWF to work Mabel and Diesel. The match I most want to see out of any is Bryan vs Reigns tbh

That angle has gone from good to horrible and back so many times that it's been difficult to even care but the last two weeks of angles have really taken it to the next level. Like all the stuff with AJ was awful, wheel-spinning filler. I think things would have been much better if the thing hadn't been dragging on for so many months while they waited for Mania/Bryan to be cleared. The waiting game with Bryan's health also meant there was no set end goal too, which didn't help the meandering. Just letting them be vicious heels instead of goofballs turns out to have been the better approach. Who'da thunk?

I saw it pointed out on Twitter, and it is quite funny, that the most significant names in the business (Bret, Flair, Austin etc) are all perfectly happy to work with Dave and acknowledge his position in the industry while the insecure lesser lights like JBL and Prichard are so vehement in taking shots at him.

I know Lesnar is a beast and a legimate bad ass no one would want to mess with but I think if done right someone who looks like a shoot fighter to kick his ass could be pulled off as believable. That's not Bryan Danielson.

On the other hand, the first six months on Bryan's comeback would be wasted on a feud with fucking Shane McMahon. Who would immediately potato the shit out of him in every physical segment. He does look like a huge douche though

Super hot segment once it got physical. Seeing Bryan go again is magical and Owens and Zayn have got proper heat for the first time in a while. I'm surprised Bryan took that much!