goodhelmet

They can be interdependent or exclusive.

I would add that there are three reasons to have message boards... 1. to argue opinions 2. to gather information 3. to have fun. The three are not exclusive.

Larry Zbyszko vs. Masa Saito (NJPW/AJPW 2/10/90) Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshiaki Yatsu vs. Kengo Kimura & Osamu Kido (NJPW/AJPW 2/10/90) Genichiro Tenryu & Tiger Mask vs. Riki Choshu & George Takano (NJPW/AJPW 2/10/90) Vader vs. Stan Hansen (NJPW/AJPW 2/10/90) Wrestlemania Update / Brother Love: Rick Martel (Superstars 2/10/90) Robert Fuller & Brian Lee Promo / Jerry Lawler in the studio / Bill Dundee wrestling school commercial/Jerry Lawler reaction (USWA 2/10/90) Midnight Express vs. Rock & Roll Express (WWW 2/10/90) / Four Horsemen Interview (WCWSN 2/10/90) USWA 1990 Calendar commercial / Chris Adams video commercial / Wrestle Trivia commercial (USWA TX 2/10/90) Jerry Lawler Promo / Jeff Jarrett & Bill Dundee Interview / Kerry Von Erich Promo (USWA TX 2/10/90) These are the matches/angles featured from that day that are on the yearbook.

JP, ultimately it comes down to how people back up their opinion. Loss brought this up on the Wrestling Culture show when we discussed Lawler-Flair-Funk. He felt it was harder to make an argument for Flair as GOAT because the wrestling gods have determined he was already the best ever and any dissent should be looked at with scorn. It isn't that opinions aren't valued, it's ultimately what you value out of wrestling. If Kurt Angle's go-go-go style is what you value, what is the point in engaging in an argument?

Wait what? Cena requested that Orton should be fired?

Yeah, that time has passed. However, you can still develop some good Col. DeBeers Apartheid material.

We are probably going to do another one on Tuesday so try and join us then.

WE may agree with you when we get to that disc but Regal-Zumhofe was pretty painful.

Kris mentions it on the show and it isn't the first project we have done that with. We represent memorable match-ups because people should get the chance to judge them. It is the reason we put so many Tiger Mask-Dynamite Kid matches on the NJ set. If Zumhofe-Regal was a famous feud, it should be represented.

Man, watching that Regal vs. Zumhofe makes me thankful I am doing these shows. That was painful.

Alright, show starts in about 75 minutes. We have 8 matches on deck... Ric Flair vs. Magnum TA (9/28/85) Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Rick Martel (9/29/85) Jimmy Garvin & Steve Regal vs. Scott Hall & Curt Hennig (11/14/85) Rick Martel vs. Boris Zuhkov (Cage Match) (11/14/85) Steve Regal vs. Buck Zumhofe (11/28/85) Nick Bockwinkel vs. Ric Flair (1/17/86) Stan Hansen vs. Curt Hennig (2/1/86) Stan Hansen vs. Sgt. Slaughter (2/2/86) http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkC...6382&cmd=tc Right now, we have myself, Johnny Sorrow and Kris Z confirmed and goc may grace us with his presence as well. Feel free to jump in if you have nothing better to do on a Friday night!

Really shocked that this was this close. I thought Sid would run away with it because of people's fond memories of his early runs. Even though I chose Goldberg, I thought the criticism of Goldberg not being a wrestling fan and in it for the money would hurt him. Glad I was wrong.

More than likely!

Had some personal issues and things to take care of but after a week off, I am committed to get through this AWA set. Feel free to join us tonight about 9 cst / 8 cst.

I was reading the current Observer and Meltzer discusses the current plans for Mania and I thought now was as good of a time as any to break off Wrestlemania discussion from the Current WWE thread. So much speculation. So many wrestlers with no clear plan. So many bad storylines. Anyway, according to Meltzer, this is what we have on the ticket to far... The Rock vs. John Cena HHH vs. Brock Lesnar Jack Swagger vs. Alberto Del Rio CM Punk vs. Undertaker So, still waiting for plans for Mark Henry, Sheamus, Jericho, Ryback, the Shield, etc. Lets keep the fantasy booking and Wrestlemania complaining in this thread.

The MX feud may have raised him from jobbing to Brad Armstrong but when Ron "healed", Ron was still regularly teaming with Windham, not Jimmy. Then when they started the Precious-Flair angle, Dusty cut Jimmy's balls off on national TV in that angle.

If I had to watch 1000 Rotunda matches, I wouldn't be a wrestling fan.

I wanted to look at house show matches that were watched for the ECW project. Here are some thoughts from Dylan on Raven in some singles house show matches. I also included the one Raven handheld tag that actually made the set. The big theme here is that Raven worked against better workers and matches were ruined by dogshit finishes. Hack Myers v. Raven (3/17/95) DYLAN: I liked Hack controlling the match early by focusing on Raven's hurt leg. Raven eventually fires back kicking Hack to the floor and then hits a big dive a few minutes later. Later Hack locks on a sleeper and has Raven reeling so Raven drops both of them through the ropes to the floor. Some good back and fourth before Hack hits his finish but Stevie interferes and Raven loads up the boat, kicks Hack in the nuts and gets the pin after a DDT. This was a good match but not great. Tommy Dreamer v. Raven (4/14/95) DYLAN: Really tedious as there was a bunch of pre-match shit, then weak crowd brawling, then a stretch run that was almost sleep inducing. Not good on any level. Hack Myers/Mikey Whipwreck v. Raven/Steve Richards (4/29/95) DYLAN: This was needlessly long, featured a ton of armwork that ultimately went nowhere and had a couple of badly telegraphed spots but I'm going to nominate it anyways. For starters this was a really fun match as you have Hack and Mikey working as equals v. Raven when they are in there with him. Hack actually kicks out of a superkick from Stevie and the DDT from Raven during his FIP which was shocking. This was also another match were Whipwreck looked great as he was really tremendous as a house of fire every time he was called upon. He hits a great plancha in this and some really nice dropkicks for example. I also loved the interplay with Raven and Richards as Richards kept insisting on second chances after failed exchanges and the spots where they collided were amusing and well timed. Best yet Mikey went over clean after several teased pinfalls from the heels over the course of several minutes after hitting a misdirection crossbody on Richards off of a blind tag. I've been looking for a way to get a Hack match on the set and this is easily the best candidate so far. Tommy Dreamer v. Raven (10/27/95) DYLAN: This was actually a really enjoyable all over god's creation brawl. They were just recklessly knocking over shit, hitting each other with everything under the sun, brawling deep into the crowd, et. Well on it's way to being in the nomination camp when a massive Dudleyz/Foley run-in ends the match. Then there si a never ending brawl with damn near the entire locker room fighting all over the fucking building. Too Cold Scorpio v. Raven (5/31/96) DYLAN: This is JIP and set up pre-match with an angle explaining Scorp getting stretched out via an attack by Taz earlier in the show. Interesting match in that it had a lot of the staples of an annoying ass Raven match, but the longer it went on the more fun it got. Scorp's comebacks were really great and I loved that he blew out his injured knee on a moonsault leading to the loaded boat finish. This was fun for what it was. Raven v. Tommy Dreamer (6/14/96) DYLAN: Some of the crowd brawling in this was okay, but it really goes off the rails when they go back to the ring and get into the ref bumps, stevie working as ref, Axl working as ref, et. Pretty stupid. Raven v. Mikey Whipwreck (11/2/96) DYLAN: Mikey Fargo struts with Stevie and friends before bulldogging them. The opening of this one is good as Raven tries to take over with a headlock and Mikey breaks up with some big ranas and then dives on all the flock before Raven cuts him off and sends him into the steel. Of course this devolves into overbooked Raven bullshit with the flock all running in and Mikey having to fight them off. Also Raven's offense is fucking dogshit in this match. Raven v. Sandman (11/22/96) DYLAN: Wild, back and fourth match, which made good use of Raven's stooges. Tons of prop spots, all of which looked good, a longish over the top stretch run, a Meanie sault, et. Not a great match but fun. Raven v. Sandman (11/30/96) DYLAN: Wild brawl. I really enjoyed the spot on the floor where Sandman reversed a suplex attempt on a table only to get reversed himself and sent onto the table which just tipped over. The ref takes a pretty crazy shot from a bar stool shortly thereafter and then the run-in train starts. For overbooked Raven finishes I thought this worked pretty well because Sandman's selling was so good that it made the nearfalls really effective. Sandman v. Raven (12/21/96) DYLAN: Sandman goes to the back to get the title after the introductions and gets ambushed by a chair wielding Raven as he emerges from the curtain. Raven with a bunch of cane shots and Sandman is really looking like he is in extreme pain. Sandman reverses Raven into the steel then, suplexes him on the railing and hits his vaulting plancha/cane shot. Sandman chops Raven in the face and then hits him with some good punches. Raven retreats into the crowd and then pull Sandman over the barricade with him. Sandman carries Raven around the Arena bumping him into every object he can find. Sandman takes a wild flip bump onto and ultimately over a pile of chairs. The crowd starts chanting "hockey rink" and Sandman takes a wild leaping bump into the cage that surrounds the rink. Raven piledrives Sandman through a table. They brawl back to the ring and Raven sets up a chair but Sandman whips him into it. Sandman hits a DDT but Lori runs into the ring so Sandman rips her dress off and spanks her. Raven blindsides him with a cane shot and a DDT and goes for the pin but the BWO's music hits. They distract Raven and Sandman ends up spitting beer in his eyes. Raven hits members of the BWO and Richards ends up "accidentally superkicking Sandman for the finish after arguing with Raven. This is probably the best Raven/Sandman singles match I can remember seeing even with the overbooked finish. Raven v. Spike Dudley (4/26/97) DYLAN: Spike outwrestling stuff was nice early and he took some nice bumps for Raven's sorry shit but god is Raven an uninteresting motherfucker. Probably as good as it could have been considering who was involved but fuck Raven.

I know Phil loved this match enou8gh to want to put it on a future edition of a Schneider comp.

I was talking about the Saturn-Raven WWF PPV match. Dead silence. I had already given credit to their Fall Brawl match if you re-read my post.

I am working on comps for both of these guys and I think it is a fair question. Both guys were over HUGE at their peak of their popularity and were never considered great. Hell, the best match either guy may have had might be against each other. Sid was able to stay employed for over a decade but I don't think he was ever the game changer that Goldberg was. I also prefer Goldberg squashes over Sid squashes but I know my good buddy Naylor would disagree. As bad as they were on the mic, I could listen to Sid all day long. I prefer Goldberg remaining silent.