elliott

I'm the worst person to help you with this because I haven't followed MMA in over a decade but this sort of fits that template. It is like if Stan Hansen vs Terry Funk 4/14/83 was an MMA fight and if Funk ended up winning. But watch this because it is fucking awesome

Excellent post, Loss.

So sorry to see this. Stay strong man. Definitely sending positive thoughts your way.

Was bored and went through the Nominees Index to build a Top 100 Outline as of today. I broke everything down regionally like so: Japan Locks (To make my List) Japan Maybe Lucha Locks Lucha Maybe US Locks US Maybe I broke it down further from there like so: #1 Candidates Top 10 Candidates Top 20 Candidates Top 30 Candidates Top 50 Candidates Top 75 Candidates Top 100 Candidates Special Favorites Who Probably Don't Deserve to Make it but Probably Will Leftover Maybes (I either need to see more/revisit footage of or guys who could grab a low spot based on the day.) I haven't made my list yet (I'll do it next) and I haven't done any more math than you've already seen This is all based on the "Eye Test." Does wrestler x strike me as a top 10, 20, 30 etc level guy. This is really just to get a ballpark idea of around where I'd rank guys right now. #1 Candidates Stan Hansen Jumbo Tsuruta Genichiro Tenryu Ric Flair Terry Funk Jerry Lawler El Satanico Negro Casas Nick Bockwinkel Top 10 Candidates Mitsuharu Misawa Toshiaki Kawada Jushin Liger Tatsumi Fujinami Yoshiaki Fujiwara Hijo del Santo Buddy Rose Top 20 Candidates Rey Mysterio Jr Shinya Hashimoto El Dandy Sangre Chicana Pirata Morgan Bill Dundee Ricky Morton Daniel Bryan Ricky Steamboat Top 30 Candidates Kenta Kobashi Riki Choshu Aja Kong Chigusa Nagayo The Destroyer Akira Hokuto Bull Nakano Jaguar Yokota Atlantis Blue Panther Jack Brisco Vader Kiyoshi Tamura Volk Han Top 50 Candidates Akira Taue Randy Savage Akira Maeda Villano III MS-1 Arn Anderson Barry Windham Billy Robinson Dick Murdoch Dustin Rhodes Eddie Guerrero Kerry von Erich John Cena Jerry Blackwell William Regal Giant Baba Jun Akiyama Ted Dibiase Top 75 Candidates Tsyoshi Kikuchi Alexander Otsuka Yuki Ishikawa Naoki Sano 2 Cold Scorpio Gran Hamada Yoshiaki Yatsu Manami Toyota Fuerza Guerrera Perro Aguayo Andre the Giant Bobby Heenan Bret Hart Dustin Rhodes Eddie Gilbert Wahoo McDaniel Curt Hennig Devil Masami Rick Martel Greg Valentine LA Park Michael Hayes Mick Foley Tully Blanchard Terry Gordy Ron Garvin Roddy Piper Butch Reed Chris Adams Masa Saito Tito Santana Top 100 Candidates Ringo Mendoza Dan Kroffat Hulk Hogan Sean Waltman Tajiri Daisuke Ikeda Shinjiro Ohtani Hiroshi Hase Dynamite Kansai Atsushi Onita Masa Fuchi Yoji Anjoh Special Favorites Consideration Mad Dog Vachon Tommy Rich Buzz Sawyer Matt Borne/Doink the Clown The Rock Dusty Rhodes Left Over Maybes/Want to Watch More/Could Make it Another Day Great Sasuke Kodo Fuyuki Dump Matsumoto Killer Khan Masato Tanaka Kengo Kimura Kantaro Hoshino Mayumi Ozaki Pat O'Connor Nobuhiko Takada Taka Michinoku Dick Togo Kazuo Yamazaki Keiji Mutoh Emilio Charles Jr La Fiera El Faraon Mocho Cota Psicosis Juventud Guerrera Cien Caras Brian Pillman Harley Race Bob Backlund Tommy Rogers Dutch Mantell Adrian Adonis Brock Lesnar Stan Lane Tracy Smothers Steve Austin Steve Keirn Rick Rude Dennis Condrey Jim Duggan Sgt Slaughter Owen Hart Dynamite Kid Verne Gagne Shawn Michaels Larry Z Lex Luger Ken Patera Magnum TA Dutch Mantell Eric Embry Koko B Ware Carlos Colon Phil Hickerson

The thing about Londos is that Gotch or Hack wouldn't have surprised me for a pre-tv era pick. I fee like Londos is a guy who would fly way under the radar for someone putting Samoa Joe on a list like this. Just weird.

I can't believe Jim Londos made this list. Surely they meant Jesse Ventura.

I love Eddy but he wouldn't even be a top 100 worker in the world in 1989. 1994 feels like the earliest for Eddy as a top 30 guy.

I was wondering if anyone was considering Hashimoto at #1? He feels like the guy I will rate highest that I don't view as a #1 candidate.

I can't remember him doing it in any other match other than the Davey Boy match which is good because it looks insanely dangerous and he hits it about as fluidly and aggressively as you could hit that spot. Loss, on the 1992 yearbook, the spot is 24min 30sec into the segment (including all the interviews/entrances). I wanted to rewatch it because in my mind, I had always thought of it as a borderline blown spot. LIke it was supposed to be a normal pescado and somehow DBS fucked it up but it happened to turn into this brutal looking spot. But when Bret goes for the move Davey is standing right up against the apron leaning over not in position at all for a normal perscado where he would be there to break Bret's fall. So it seems like it was what Bret was intending to do. But it does seem weird because I can't ever remember him doing it again. Anyway, incredibly great spot.

Honestly I love those moves so I'm fine with that.

How are you measuring "offense"? I ask because giving Misawa and Bret Hart the same score jumps off the page at me. Misawa had probably the deepest arsenal of sheer MOVZ of anyone ever. Bret Hart isn't exactly known as a guy with a deep moveset. Even compared to 90s US workers. Are you basing "offense" as a measure of how deep a guy's moveset was or based on how they used their offense within the match? I guess talk about how/why Bret Hart and Mitsuharu Misawa are on the same playing field in terms of "offense."

I'm also glad you've decided to participate because I do think the more the merrier for projects like this. I just think you may be overthinking it a little bit or in your attempt to make your rankings less arbitrary, you're going to be straddling the line of making them even more arbitrary or will find yourself lost in the minutia of all of this. Like this part: "One of the things that has bothered me when coming up with my own list is some of the arbitrariness with which I'm making decisions, is this guy here because he's the best or just because I happen to love him? Why is this guy at 44 and this guy at 45? Etc. Beyond the top 10 it all felt like a bit of a crapshoot, especially the lower down the list I got." Giving wrestler X a 5 in "intangibles" (which is difficult in and of itself, how do you numerically rank intangible qualities?) instead of a 4 seems just as arbitrary as ranking someone 53 instead of 54. Or "length of peak" being based solely on "how many years was this person a best in the world candidate?" Based on that definition, what would Arn Anderson's "length of peak" score be? Wouldn't Arn get a zero for "length of peak" because he wasn't realistically a candidate for "best in the world" at any point? What about "Ability to work different styles and roles?" Ricky Morton defined the role of sympathetic babyface tag worker. We've seen Booker T work as a heel tag worker, singles babyface on the rise, comedic babyface single, serious babyface single, serious heel single, etc etc. What would the numerical placement for Ricky Morton under the "Ability to work different styles" category? What about Booker T? It seems like Booker's case would be inflated just because he got to play different roles whereas someone like Ricky Morton, Steamboat, Mysterio Jr, etc would be hurt even though it would be insane to book Ricky Morton as anything other than a sympathetic underdog babyface. The concept of using math to rank performance art is really strange to me and I'm not sure I understand how it makes things less arbitrary. I suppose I'd be more interested in your 1-9 rankings for the categories than I would be your 10s. Edit I do appreciate the effort though and trying to look at the project this way. Its interesting.

I do think Hansen was the best rival for both Inoki and Baba. The absolute best matches for those two came against different opponents. But for long running rivalries/series, I think Hansen was the best opponent for consistently good-great matches. But the Inoki feud is probably my least favorite Hansen feud while the Baba feud is one of my favorites. Easily the best Inoki singles match I've seen was against Fujiwara from 2/86 and I would nominate Fujiwara based on the strength of that one match. I know jdw will point out that Backlund was a great Inoki opponent but I'll let him talk about those matches since I haven't watched them in 15 years. Hansen has to be Baba's best opponent. I absolutely love the Hansen/Baba matches from 82-84ish. The Destroyer draw is one of my 5 favorite matches ever though. I would argue Hansen was the best opponent for Inoki, Baba, Colon, Kobashi and Terry Funk.

Dunno where else to put this but I had a good laugh when I saw this quote in the Tenryu bio from the most recent WON. "Brody used to note that Tsuruta & Tenryu both improved greatly, which he attributed to he and Hansen, that they beat on them so hard that they had to become tough."

Is Billy Joe Travis not nominated? He's another guy I wanted to ask for recommendations for. I've only watched the few matches he had on the Texas set and he kind of struck me as a hillbilly exotico which would probably make him a top 100 contender alone if I could see more footage.

What is Davey's character? Is it just "guy who has MOTYCs?" I'm asking because I legit don't know. Is Davey working for a very strict and patient booker who's intent is to build a very clear hierarchy in his promotion? If so, what is Davey's role in that hierarchy? How does he use his work to fit in that limiting hierarchy? I'm also wondering if we shouldn't look at "great match theory" and we shouldn't praise guys working within themselves, understanding and "playing their role" then what sort of criteria should we be using for this poll? In the end, yes, its all going to come down to personal preference.

Ramble time. I have a lot to say. Some of this is going to be about how Hansen is presented and broad discussions of the All Japan House style and the expectations for Hansen based on the role he was in. I think it is all important stuff even if some of it will be a bit dry and a lot of it will be “yeah we know this already” for some people. But I think it is all important stuff to know when it comes to Hansen and why he wrestled the way he wrestled because we all agree Hansen was more giving in AWA, PR, and the 90s. I would say that more so than any other promotion, All Japan was deeply concerned with hierarchy and card placement. Higher ranked wrestlers almost always beat lower ranked wrestlers. Baba would draw things out for years and years with guys slowly growing up and developing over time. All Japan didn’t really run storylines in the way wrestling fans traditionally think of so they primarily used ringwork as a way to show who wrestlers are and where they are in their career. For example, if all you told me was there was a match between Hansen and Ted vs Bock and Curt in All Japan from December 1985 and it lasted 10 minutes, I could tell you a few things before even watching the match. It will be a countout/DQ or if there is a pin/submission, Hansen and Ted will win and Curt will eat the fall. Why do I know these things? Countout/DQ: It is early-mid 80s All Japan so its always safe to assume a countout or dq. Hansen/Ted Victory if by pin/submission: Hansen and Dibiase were the top ranked All Japan Gaijin of 1985. Bock and Curt weren’t really a regular tag team in All Japan and it being December, I know its tag league season. So Bock and Curt were brought in to fill out the tag league. They’re the sort of team that exists so teams like Hansen and Dibiase can win by pinfall and accrue points. Curt will eat the fall: All Japan would frequently pair youngsters up with veterans. The young guys will almost always get pinned so the veteran can lose but stay protected. I could have told you all of that before ever watching the match. I could even tell you how I expected them to work the match before watching it. I hate to use terms like “Sports build” and “realism” when it comes to any wrestling company but Baba really tried to book AJ as though it were a sport. Upsets are rare and it takes years and years for the athletes to reach their prime. Not every wrestler in a generation is going to be Michael Jordan or LeBron James. One guy will become the ace or MVP, one or two guys will challenge the Ace and push either help push the Ace to greater heights in defeat or even get the occasional (though rare) win. Most guys will be good professionals but not able to challenge the Ace. We all know hierarchy/card placement is important in All Japan and Baba was a very patient/planning long term booker. Shit he was probably (definitely?) the most patient booker ever. Well the way the patient booker goes about creating the hierarchy of his promotion based on “realism” is that higher ranked wrestlers beat lower ranked wrestlers over and over and over again for years and years even as the faces change. Kenta Kobashi lost something like 86 matches in a row to start his career. Kobashi was considered a future star as a rookie because he was already so good but Baba had him lose over and over and over again. Not only did this make sense in a real world practical standpoint (keep the young guy humble [not really a problem with young kobashi but fuck it dude I’m rolling]) but it makes sense from a kayfabe standpoint (rookies don’t just walk in and beat guys with years of experience in this promotion). The average (nothing special) All Japan match is really just going to be there to reinforce the hierarchy and the “characters” (maybe “characteristics” would be a better term for All Japan) with the work in the ring. For this match it would be Hansen is a beast, Dibiase is a lesser Hansen, Bock is an aging vet but still has some shit left in the tank, Curt is an exciting youngster who isn’t really ready to hang with the Hansen’s of the world. Hansen will have an easy time with Bock and Curt. Dibiase will have an easy time with Curt while working more evenly with Bock. Dibiase will do most of the bumping for his time, Curt will eat the fall. The “narrative” in this promotion between those two teams is going to be top gaijin team vs veteran & kid in the tag league for 10 minutes. Was it a great match? No. But it was what you would expect to happen with those 4 based on that narrative structure and based on how those guys worked/where they were in their careers in All Japan. Before we talk about why Hansen worked the way he did we should first clarify Hansen’s role in All Japan and his presentation within the company. Hansen was the top gaijin in 80s All Japan. He was the hardest pushed foreigner over the course of the decade from the moment he jumped from New Japan. In New Japan, Hansen had a long running feud against Inoki and even managed to beat the fucker. He was able to go toe to toe with Andre and even body slammed him. Think about that. Not in terms of how fucking awesome that match is and how much we all love it now. Think about it in terms of presentation and character. Here’s this guy and he’s literally charging at heel Andre the Giant. He’s arm dragging and body slamming freaking Andre. So Hansen is considered a serious bad ass motherfucker and is treated as such. You think the guy that charged at Andre the Giant is going to be the slightest bit impressed by Curt Hennig in 1985? Over the course of the 80s, Hansen was the biggest and hardest pushed gaijin in All Japan. Consider that Hansen: Was in the main event or semi-main event of every Sumo Hall or Budokan Hall show in the 80s. Won 4 Tag Leagues from 82-89 and tied for first in another. Finished 2nd or tied for 2nd every other year in the 80s. Going into the 90s: Hansen was in the main event or semi main event of EVERY Budokan card he appeared on from 1985 until July 1994. Seriously. Every one. He finished 2nd or tied for 2nd in every Tag League from 90-94. He won one last tag league in 1998 and finished 2nd in 99. He lost to Jumbo in the finals of the 91 Champions Carnival (AJ didn’t run the carnival from 1982 until 1991) and then beat Misawa to win the next two. He had 4 runs as Triple Crown Champion. 2 more than any other gaijin. Hansen held the belt for a total of 505 days. The next closest gaijin was Vader’s 2 reigns for 177 days. So the presentation of Hansen from the moment he started in All Japan until sometime around 1994ish was as a literal top of the card star. He’s a guy that beat Inoki, Baba, Jumbo, and Misawa. How many people in the history of Japan can say that? I’m genuinely curious about that because I suspect no one. Hansen wasn’t just a star, he was a star capable of beating the absolute top tier natives. More to consider. As I said Hansen was the biggest gaijin star/hardest pushed over the course of the 80s on average. I’ll definitely concede that at certain points others like Andre, Hogan, Terry Funk, etc were bigger stars or pushed harder. But Hansen worked many more tours than Hogan and Andre who were more special attraction types in Japan for the bulk of the 80s. Funk by the 80s was a beloved babyface so his role was completely different from Hansen’s. We typically think of Hansen as a “Monster Heel Gaijin.” At least I know I usually do but I’m not sure what to do with the word monster. It works for Andre because he’s enormous. It works for Abdullah because Abdullah is a literal monster. Even Hogan when he worked heel could be called a monster because he was essentially a 6foot tall muscle with an irregular heart beat. Stan Hansen is much more humanized to me. I mean, he's a big loud tough as shit redneck cowboy. I’ve met basically that exact guy in real life a dozen times. In Japan? Being a giant swearing, tobacco chewing, screaming, lariating Texan is probably a type of monster. Hansen certainly wrestles like a monster. So I feel it is fair to consider him one. He isn’t a monster because he’s Godzilla (Andre) or a Roid Freak (Hogan) or Abdullah, he’s a monster because he’s the biggest and toughest Texan American. So, thinking about all of this and how it fits together in terms of the GOAT Poll. Hansen is the top gaijin in Japan for the 80s and is a presented as a major star capable of beating the top native stars. Hansen wasn’t a part time attraction or world champ coming in for a title defense. He was a guy who worked in the country regularly and his status as a monster is based more on (and I know Matt is gonna hate this word) toughness than being a freakshow. For Hansen to maintain his status as a monster while regularly working in company that focused on hierarchy and be over and credible to the point that Hansen working against Baba/Jumbo/Tenryu/Misawa was credible for years and years…Hansen HAD to eat certain guys alive. We can hate it and say it led to what we would call bad matches. But for what All Japan was going for, Hansen had to beat the shit out of lower ranked opponents. And if you pick random matches from his prime against guys not named Baba, Tenryu, Jumbo, Choshu, Funk, you’re probably going to see Hansen kicking the living shit out of a guy. We know when Hansen worked in AWA and PR that he was willing to sell more and work a more giving style. We know based on his 90s work in Japan that he was actually a wonderful seller and just perfect as the aging gunslinger. Shit we know that when working underdog babyface for the first and only time ever against Andre he was amazing Ricky Morton. So I think its fair to say that Hansen understood exactly how he needed to work in 80s All Japan. Hansen is actually kind of an interesting candidate because of all of this really. He’s the ultimate big picture candidate. Hansen worked in All Japan from his prime through his twilight years for the slowest and most patient booker. Not a lot change in All Japan unless things forced them to change. One of the constants in the 80s was Stan Hansen is going to destroy a motherfucker. As the decade turned and Hansen went from an athlete in his prime to an athlete nearing the end, he adjusted accordingly. He managed to do this while at the same time adding things to stay relevant. Hansen wasn’t doing topes and powerbombs in 1983 but he sure as shit was on occasion in 1993. I would recommend watching everything from Hansen for sure but I would always point to the series of matches against Kobashi from 1990-1996. You see Hansen age from in his prime to twilight against a great worker moving up from virtual rookie to world champion. Each match is different and shows both the quick growth of Kobashi and slow/inevitable decline of Stan Hansen. I feel like you can see a great variety and nuance in an otherwise pretty limiting wrestling character/promotion from Hansen in that series of matches while also allowing that they are appealing because they tend to be great matches. But we all keep trying to move past “Great match Theory” and part of the way we do that is by looking at and analyzing performances. If Hansen was more giving to someone like Curt Hennig in 1985 All Japan it would be a bad performance based on what Stan meant to the promotion at that time, where he was in his career and what Curt meant and where he was at the time. But 6 months later in AWA in totally different circumstances, Hansen works against Hennig and is much more giving and willing to bump around and make Curt look like a million bucks. Whether we think one match was great and the other wasn’t is incidental. What is important is that Hansen treated Curt differently in All Japan in 12/85 than he did in AWA on 5/86. Because of his style as a wild brawler, Hansen is often labeled a one trick pony (albeit often described as the greatest one trick pony ever but still) I really think this sells Hansen’s brilliance short. He knew exactly how to work based on his opponent and promotional expectations. I described him as a big picture candidate earlier. I think if you pick a random match like the tag with Bock and Curt and analyze it based on our expectations for good work without considering the context of promotional needs/positioning it is easy to label a perfectly acceptable performance a bad one. This is the problem with analysis without contextual considerations. If you take a step back and consider promotional style, positioning, etc Hansen’s run is really quite remarkable in terms of understanding what was expected of him and wrestling accordingly. Because Hansen was in his prime in 80s All Japan and was positioned so strongly you’ll see a litany of matches where he eats a lower ranked opponent alive. It wasn’t because he was a selfish or bad worker. It is because that is how a wrestler in Japan in Hansen’s position needed to wrestle. That he wrestled differently during the same period elsewhere illustrates my point. In a way I look at Stan Hansen as the ultimate “Mark Henry” style of great worker. In terms of understanding his character in relationship to his push, the promotion, and his personal style of wrestling, Hansen is the perfect example of being a great wrestler by understanding his role and never wrestling outside of himself. A while back Matt and I were chatting about Hansen via pm and I made a point that I’ve thought about ever since. Hansen is the greatest wrestler ever who’s ability to have a great match is most dependent on who he is wrestling. Hansen has an impressive list of great matches against opponents including Inoki, Andre, Hogan, Vader, Baba, Tenryu,, Colon, Martel, Hennig, Kawada, Kobashi, Taue, Terry Funk, Backlund etc etc. It is a pretty versatile list of workers but if you look closely and think about it Hansen’s best matches came against two types of wrestlers: 1. Aces/Major Stars (Baba, Inoki, Colon, Hogan, Backlund) 2. Great Workers (Kawada/Kobashi/Funk/Taue) Dawhoe has a great little post here describing Hansen’s stated working philosophy. http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/19196-stan-hansen/?p=5690217 For those that don’t want to click the link “Hansen has said that the way he wrestled was he would go at guys and see how they reacted, then wrestle accordingly. I always appreciate that about Hansen, he doesn't necessarily have one or two structures he likes, he wrestles everybody different because everyone reacts different when he goes at them.” When Hansen was wrestling an Ace like Inoki, Baba, or Colon or a major star like Hogan or Andre, he knew he had to be giving and work a more even match. He wasn’t stupid. Sure you can say “he knew who was paying the checks.” Ok. But when you’re brought in to work a feud with Carlos Colon or you’re wrestling Antonio Inoki, you know you aren’t going to win the feud before you sign the contract. Same thing if you’re wrestling Hogan and Andre. You aren’t going to steamroll Hulk Hogan or Andre the Giant. But beyond an Ace or Major Star, Hansen’s “go at guys and see how they react” style isn’t really predisposed to have “great matches” against anything but great workers. Part of being a great wrestler is being confident in your abilities and be able to think on your feet. If you’re a skinny new comer in your 2nd year and freaking Stan Hansen is coming at you, you’re probably going to freeze and get eaten alive. But if its 1986 All Japan and you’re in your 2nd year, you should expect to get destroyed by Stan Hansen. That’s how the promotion works. But if you’re 1983 Terry Funk and you’re maybe the best working veteran underdog babyface ever or you’re 1993 Kenta Kobashi and you’re maybe the best working up and coming babyface ever and you’re strong and confident in your abilities, Stan Hansen’s “go at you and see how you react style” is perfect for making magic. The AWA match against baby Vader really throws a wrench into my theory. But like the Andre match in a different way, the Leon White match shows Hansen’s ability to be utterly brilliant working a different sort of match than the typical Stan Hansen match. And really I think the “only has great matches against aces and great workers” because of his style criticism really only applies to Japan. I think the All Japan 80s promotional philosophy in terms of hierarchy combined with Hansen’s push/working style definitely led to a lot of matches like Stan/Ted vs Bock/Hennig. But focusing just on the things that happen in a match like that is missing the broader picture for what Hansen was trying to accomplish. It makes me think of the old story about JJ Dillon wrestling a match for the first time in years and wanting to really impress the boys. Instead of going out and getting his butt kicked and stooging, JJ went out and dominated showcasing a wide array of offensive moves to impress the boys. When he went to the back after the match expecting to be praised for his abilities he was scolded because he “isn’t supposed to wrestle like that.” Hansen would NEVER have fallen into a trap like that. He had a deep understanding of what he needed to accomplish and wrestled accordingly based on his opponent. We might say “this match would have been better if he wrestled it differently and gave more offense to 1988 Kodo Fuyuki (as a random ass example).” But the real question is SHOULD he have given more offense to 1988 Kodo Fuyuki. I would say that Hansen probably benefits for me from “expectation bias.” I love hearing about guys growing up in the 80s and reading about Brody in PWI, seeing the entrance for the first time and then the match falling flat because it turns out that Brody is actually a complete fraud. Hansen had the same sort of presentation as an out of control ass kicker type but then he followed it up by delivering in the ring. I, obviously, really like Hansen and his style really works for me. I think his “I just go at guys and see how they react” is a really unique and interesting approach to wrestling. It forces you to think on your feet and forces you to truly work for and earn the offense you get in on this overbearing cowboy. Again I hate to use the word “realistic” so I’ll say it makes Hansen matches feel more organic and natural. I’m not trying to say people have to love Hansen and his style or rank him #1 or consider him for #1. I guess I wanted to address the criticism against him for “eating guys alive” and discuss why I can look beyond that in certain matches in 80s All Japan. And then I went crazy. But I do think there was logic behind it that actually enhances his case if you want to move past “Great match Theory” and start thinking about performance based on his role, opponent and promotional expectation. This was too long. I apologize.

Here's the match. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xhu0i_hansen-dibiase-vs-bock-hennig-12-7_news I just watched it and I actually really enjoyed Hansen's performance in it. It was about what you would expect. Some important things to consider. This match took place during the 1985 tag league. Hansen and Dibiase would go on to win the tag league while Hennig/Bock finished tied for last. The punches in the corner that Hansen no-sold and then eye raked Bock wasn't part of a "Hennig and Bock taking it too Hansen" sequence. It was literally the first offense Hansen took in the entire match like 30 seconds in. Hansen sold the initial impact of the blows and shrugged them off and eye raked Bock to take over. Don't see the problem at all. Hansen should not have been selling those punches as meaningful at all. It would have been dumb for him to do so. The egregious no selling spot that dropped him 3 spots on Matt's ballot was equally non-offensive to me. Hansen raked the eyes following the punches in the corner, put nick in a pretty rough headlock as they fought for position (I look at this as Hansen saying "do something boy, I'm right here), Hansen then bodyslammed Nick, and went for the elbow drop. Nick put his legs up to block it and it was pretty brutal looking. Hansen kind of rolled off and Bock hesitated so Hansen covered/smothered him and then tagged out to Dibiase because they're right in the corner. Honestly, I'm not seeing the problem. This entire sequence from the no selling the punches in the corner to the legs up on the elbow drop spot that knocked him down your ballot is all literally in the first minute of the match where the only offense Hansen has taken are the punches and the legs up on the elbow drop. Hansen was the #1 Gaijin the company. A monster who was presented as credible enough to beat Giant Baba and Jumbo (the top natives) and only get beaten by those guys. It would be non-sensical for Hansen to be selling big off minimal offense 60 seconds into a match against the part timers who are going to finish last in the tournament Hansen is about to win. You've seen Hansen work with both guys in the AWA in singles matches within 6 months of this match. Does Hansen work with them differently because they are in a different setting? If so shouldn't this be a credit for Hansen understanding how he should work based on where he is? Hansen vs Curt Hennig in All Japan in 12/85 does not equal Hansen vs Hennig in AWA from 5/86 because of what the specific promotions needed from those wrestlers.

I wasn't sure where to ask this, but the questions popped up in my head watching this match so I figured I'd ask it here. Did the New Japan commentators talk about Choshu and Tenryu wrestling in All Japan in the 80s during this feud? Was Tenryu's All Japan history played up during the course of the feud or was he just presented as invading WAR Ace? I know all of the fans knew about the history but I'm wondering if it was freely talked about on commentary. Same thing when Vader went to All Japan in the late 90s. Did they talk about his history in New Japan and UWFi or was it a "Oh shit its Vader. We know who that is. What's he doing here?" kinda thing? We all talk about All Japan as an isolationist promotion in terms of not working with other promotions. Were they like 80s WWF where they refused to acknowledge wrestling outside of All Japan?

Matt, where do you stand on his 80s singles matches in Japan? Stuff against Baba, Terry, Tenryu etc?

This is the Roddy Piper music video Kris and Bix talked about and it is the funniest goddamn thing I've ever seen.

Aside from Hashimoto/Nagata vs Misawa/Akiyama 01, Hashimoto vs Kawada 04, and the 4 way with Corino/Dylan Knight/Gary Steele, what are the best Hashimoto matches post 2000? I was also wondering if OJ ever ended up watching the draw with Chono from the 91 G1?

I absolutely love the RnR Express and they are a team I'm considering at #1 for the tag team list. Ricky Morton was obviously the star of the team and was so great that it was often easy to look past Robert. But he was a good worker. He was great working on the apron and engaging with the crowd/match from there. But being a great apron tag worker doesn't mean he warrants a spot in the top 100. Honestly I was glad to see it was nominated. Needing a break from the world news today, I'm watching the title change against the Russians and it is has got to be the performance of Robert's career. It is interesting that the RnR's chose to work their big JCP debut with Robert in the face in peril role for the bulk of the match. It's a great match and a great performance.