ohtani's jacket

70s and 80s Joshi, obviously, though it's fairly monotonous. M-Pro? You've probably seen all that.

One of the more underrated big men has to be Bomber Pat Roach. He was a huge man but could work the mat in the Euro style. You don't see too many big men with that sort of agility and co-ordination.

Clive Myers vs. Keith Haward (7/15/81) Beautiful bout between these two. Everything you could possibly want from two skilled athletes. The great thing about the match-up is that on the surface it seemed as though Haward had the strength advantage while Myers was the quicker of the two, but Myers was every bit as strong being an arm wrestling champion, and Haward had all the speed of a world class athlete. Lots of slick work in this one and some tremendous highspots (especially from Myers), but also some terrific strength holds and counters. Just a fantastic contest with both guys forced to rethink their strategy between rounds. One of the best Euro matches of the 80s.

Jerry Estrada, Pirata Morgan y Hombre Bala vs. Atlantis, Alfonso Dantes y Rayo De Jalisco Jr. (Feb 1987) I believe the date on this match is 2/13/87. This marks the first appearance on the set of Los Bucaneros, the trio that was formed in the wake of Morgan's falling out with Satanico. Joining Morgan were Jerry Estrada, the young rudo whom Herodes brought in from Monclova and who was able to foot in Mexico City, and Morgan's older brother Hombre Bala. Bala was nine years older than his brother and had been wrestling for nearly a decade when Morgan made his debut. He was never a big star like his brother, but enjoyed a 40 year career where he managed to successfully wrestle under several different aliases. He began his career as 'Chamaco Ortiz' and drew comparisons to Raul Mata as a chubby worker who was extremely fast and spectacular, as well as effective. As a young man he was involved in a number of apuestas matches, mostly notably against the popular midcard worker Dr. O'Borman Sr and was a noted bleeder. Hombre Bala was his second pirate gimmick having previously worked as Rey Pirata. He adopted the Bala gimmick some time in the early 80s and worked under a mask for a good five or six years. He lost the mask to Atlantis on the 12/5/86 Arena Mexico show, which was one of Atlantis' big apuestas triumphs along with Talisman's mask at the 1984 Anniversary Show. After his unmasking, it was acknowledged that he was the older brother of Pirata Morgan and the two joined forces in his struggles against the Infernales. Estrada would eventually leave the Bucaneros and be replaced by another Morgan brother, Verdugo, but the original incarnation enjoyed a barnstorming 1987. On 8/30/87, they took the Mexican National Trios Championship from the team of Kiss, Ringo Mendoza and Rayo de Jalisco Jr. and ruled the roost for the final part of the 1987 season. Bala also had an extremely bloody hair match with El Dandy in August of '87, which I'm sure we all wish we could see. After Morgan's run with the Bucaneros was over, and he re-united with the Infernales, Bala shifted gimmicks to Cromagnon in the fun undercard trio 'Los Cavernicolas' (w/ Popitekus and Verdugo) and then enjoyed a successful late career run under the AAA gimmick of Monsther, forming a comedy duo with a mini version of Chucky from the Child's Play movies. Bala injured his knee training young wrestlers and was forced to retire in 2010. He had a benefit show in September that year in an effort to pay for his surgery. His son currently wrestles in the CMLL midcard as Hombre Bala Jr. Alfonso Dantes, Atlantis and Rayo were regular trios partners either with each other or in combination with other technicos. It was Dantes and Rayo who were Atlantis' partners in the trios matches that built to the Atlantis vs. Bala mask match, and Atlantis had also partnered Dantes and Rayo in their feud against Cien Caras and Mascara Ano 2000. Dantes was the reigning Mexican National Heavyweight Champion at this time having defeated Caras for the title on 8/20/86 and had successfully defended the crown against Herodes a few days prior. He would lose the title to Super Halcon in September, aka Danny Ortiz, aka El Halcon/Halcon Ortiz. That wasn't the end of Dantes though, as he took the title again in '88 from Gran Markus Jr. despite the fact he was inching towards retirement. Atlantis had a quiet '87 as his push cooled off, and Rayo dropped the NWA World Light Heavyweight Title to MS-1 a month after this trios and also had a quiet year, losing all of his titles and dropping down the card slightly in favour of other workers. Both workers would enjoy renewed pushes as the television era approached.

I go in cycles like Bill and my wrestling cycle is closing hard. I'm on a bout a match a week right now.

CMLL TV from 1990 and 1997, JWP from 1996 and World of Sport from '74-85 are my favourites.

Some of the early Attitude era comedy was good. I remember enjoying the Vince/Mankind stuff like when Mankind went to visit him in the hospital.

To me a great wrestler is a wrestler who has consistently good performances. As simple as that. Determining whether the performance was any good is where it gets more difficult.

Satanico vs. Pierroth Jr, CMLL World Light Heavyweight Championship, '92/93 This was from sometime during Pierroth's year long reign as CMLL World Light Heavyweight champion, which began in March of '92 and ended in April of '93. Pierroth's Los Intocables group feuded extensively with the Infernales during this period. Pierroth had several title defences against Pirata Morgan, a match against MS-1 in Puebla, and this match which appears to have been broadcast on some sort of local Tijuana television station. The match is a far cry from some of the classics from this era, but it's an interesting look at a title match outside of the usual TV arenas. The grainy washed out footage and single camera shoot make it look like it could have taken place in the 80s, and there's a definite house show feel to it. Satanico is unashamedly my favourite lucha worker. As regular readers will know, I put a lot of stock in the intros. Most of my favourite workers are 'details guys;' workers who put effort into things like ring introductions. What set Satanico apart was a commitment to characterisation. The ref is going through the pre-match formalities, and Satanico walks around like he owns the place. He issues all sorts of warnings to the champion and goes through his pre-match stretch routines as though he's primed to take the title. There's a natural cockiness to Satanico that comes from supreme confidence in his abilities, but with that confidence comes vanity. When the ring announcer calls his name, you can see him bask in his greatness before the bell has even sounded. The match is slower than you might expect. It's worked as a heavyweight mat contest. There's a traditional lock-up to start and most of the opening fall involves Satanico putting Pierroth in simple holds. As entertaining as Pierroth could be, he wasn't much of a mat worker and so the bout lacks the brilliant counters you'd see in a high-end match. It's psychologically sound, but Pierroth's counters are a touch sloppy. Satanico continues to the be the aggressor in the second fall. Perhaps too much so, but a worker like Satanico can't help working like the champion even when he's not the champion. Pierroth finally uses his strength to good effect. He also starts getting under Satanico's skin by using open handed strikes to batter Lopez' nose, but they don't really go anywhere with it as it's not a match that's heavily built on narrative. The third caida lacks the urgency you'd expect from a title match and is a slow burner. It's not bad per se, but it doesn't take you to the kind of places that a championship deciding fall ought to. And it ends in the dreaded double pin, which keys you in to the amount of energy they were willing to expend on this one. Still, it's not a bad match and like I said it gives you a taste of what title matches where like on the different circuits around Mexico. Just lower your expectations to "house show expectations" and you'l be fine.

People who love this match really need to check out the trios from the week prior.

Atlantis/Ringo Mendoza/El Dandy vs. Mano Negra/Javier Llanes/Black Magic, CMLL 2/15/94 My buddy Raging Noodles once had a prank played on him that there was a trios match leading into the El Dandy/Javier Llanes singles match where Llanes worked over Dandy's fingers or something to that effect. It was a neat prank, but Noodles my boy, here's that trios you always wanted to see. As with most gems, we get a great set of intros. I never realised what an ugly blighter Llanes was. He had this pockmarked face that made his shit-eating grin all the more aggravating, and sauntered around the ring in the cheapest of robes. He got in Dandy's face early before backing away and letting his man Negra step in. Negro got lippy, so Dandy fish hooked him and the two had a small standoff. Negra looked awesome in this match. His mane was untameable and he had a killer Mexican mustache. And then there was Ringo. Completely out of place, but still rocking his Ritchie Valens hair. Llanes attacked Dandy while the green eyed one's graphic was still on the screen, and the rudos gave him a working over. Smiley was especially keen to get involved, and this was probably the best rudo performance I've seen from him. Llanes was eager to work the arm and the dropkick became an early theme. Atlantis wanted Negra, and I swear Negra looked like a Mexican Fit Finlay. Negra hit a sweet looking flying clothesline, which was awesome for two reasons: a. you don't see that sort of move in lucha too often, and b. he adjusted his glove before entering the ring. Atlantis then hit his signature back breaker, which Negra sold beautifully. Dandy wanted another shot at Llanes, but every time he'd get the upper hand the rudos would dish out a cheap shot. Llanes' movement wasn't the greatest, but he took Dandy apart methodically and between falls he bust him open. It wasn't so common to see blood at Arena Coliseo during this era, which made the juice seem special. The second caida was like an apuesta match. Llanes rubbed Dandy's cut against the bottom rope and flicked the blood off his fingers. Then he moved Dandy into the corner where he gave him a going-over; the aggression increasing with every blow. Smiley got in the act next and was an absolute dick to Ringo. He mocked Ringo's heritage with a little Indian dance then the rudos beat the shit out of Mendoza and Atlantis. By this point, I was loving this rudos trio. Llanes had Dandy in the corner again and was working over his cut; really channeling Cien Caras and every other bastard. Of course, this all lead to an awesome comeback from Dandy where Llanes feigned a low blow, but Dandy didn't give a shit and just kept attacking him. Even the rudos' cheap shots couldn't deter Dandy this time and Smiley got some pay back. Atlantis showed us flashes of his underrated brawling skills with a headbutt to Negra and great use of the double axehandle (hey, if it works, it works.) He also hit a sweet senton to help the technicos take the second caida. He was only in a supporting role here, but in fine form. During the finish he dropped the most ridiculously smooth knee on Negra. Great worker. The third fall began with Dandy hunched over struggling with his cut. Llanes pounced and the ring soon cleared for a mano a mano contest where Llanes kept peppering Dandy with body shots. Dandy went down hard and they really put over Llanes' punching strength. Llanes noticed somewhere along the way a weakness in Dandy's chest area and he went after the same spot pummeling it. Dandy fought back with chops and headbutts, but he missed a flying headbutt from the turnbuckle and Llanes must have thought he had him. One cool thing they did was keep going for the submission finish. Despite their brawling, it was a title match that would be decided the following week and nothing sends a message quite like making your man submit the week before a big title fight. There was a great moment when Dandy was trying to put the figure four on Llanes and Negra interfered. Dandy let go of the leg, stepped through the ropes and punched Negra out cold on the apron. Man, was Negra great in this. Dandy and Llanes teased a couple of nearfalls then Llanes managed to catch Dandy out when he was going for the magistral cradle, catching the leg and leaning back on him. That was just enough leverage for the pin, and a great win for the rudos. And didn't Smiley love it? He had quite the victory shuffle. This was a real gem. The kind of lucha that was the inspiration for this blog in the first place. If there's any more Dandy vs. Llanes trios on tape we need to seek them out. He was the least athletically gifted of Dandy's major opponents, but he more than made up for it with his smarts and their work together is quality. I strongly suggest people watch this a-sap.

Was he a worse talker than Sting? I'd have to say yes.

Are we forgetting that Dustin couldn't talk?

I've finally met another human being who loves this match. Thank you.

Tim was asking about matches comparable to Tully vs. Magnum or Flair vs. Steamboat. A TV match with Dustin and an underrated pay-per-view match against Regal aren't in the same ballpark. The question wasn't did Arn have a great singles match, but did he have that "one really great singles match?" which I presume is a match that's good enough to be "canonised" for want of a better word.

Yeah, but even these aren't "great" in the traditional sense. I think he's similar to Regal in that he wasn't a big match worker.

Virus, Cachorro & Hechicero vs. Negro Casas, Cavernario & Dragon Lee, CMLL 5/23/14 Everybody's talking about this as a Match of the Year Candidate, but for a trios with four good workers in it, I thought it was pretty disappointing. The only parts that were exciting or genuinely engaging were during the finishing stretches, and the work in between was clumsy and unfocused. The opening fall was a perfect example. Dragon Lee is a young guy and can't mat wrestle. If you have him work an opening mat exchange with Virus, he'll be scrambling. Virus has got to carry him for the mat work to be effective let alone good, but that requires slowing the bout down and working a different tone. Here, they wanted to work a fast paced bout, so they did a classic "mirroring" exchange where they wrestle each other to a stand still. Which would've been okay if Dragon Lee had been in any way convincing, but he doesn't have the quickness that those spots require. You could almost feel him thinking them through as though they're a series of steps. The exchange didn't look terrible as Virus is still the best wrestler in the company and everything he does looks great, but the stand still didn't ring true and was a waste of a match-up. You accept that and move on, but Casas vs. Cachorro was more of the same. Cachorro is another young guy, so we'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but Casas should be looking to be get more out of an exchange than this. As we all know, match-ups make trios, and it's the story threads that make those match-ups compelling. You could argue that this was just a workrate trios, but if that's the case, the work wasn't very inspiring. Cavernario and Hechicero tried to inject a bit of stiffness and physicality, but their exchange-cum-brawl was muddled and confused. That was a trend that continued throughout the bout, as Hechicero was well off his game. The fall picked up as Virus did his senton to the outside and the finishing stretch kicked into high gear, but as the dust settled on the opening fall, I couldn't help but wonder why they stray so far from the tried and true. If you want to do a high tempo opening fall, the pattern has always been to square off once with individual pairs, switch partners and dance one more time, then run the ropes for the turning point and first fall climax. It's a simple formula but works so well. Ideally, you'd build the first fall crescendo to the heights the En Busca de un Idolo has been reaching, but Cavernario and Hechicero didn't pull out the stops and the fall was a table setter at best. It would be disingenuous of me to pretend that I like their match-up as much as everyone else (in fact, I thought the Cavernario/Virus match-up was vastly superior throughout, but then I think Virus is vastly superior to anyone else in the match), but in a match like this you want the action to culminate with a key match-up, and I thought Cavernario/Hechicero from the En Busca de un Idolo would've been swinging. The second fall at least had a decent sense of urgency to it. The work wasn't outstanding, but they powered through it. Cavernario looked all at sea during his big comeback in the three-on-one sequence, and I have my doubts about whether he's a polished worker, but his plancha is gorgeous, and along with Dragon Lee's insane dive, they hit the high notes the crowd was looking for. But Virus and Casas... if you're going to do a mano-a-mano standoff to end a fall, you might want to do something a bit more exciting than that. For seasoned vets that was weak. Everybody knows I think Negro Casas is overrated these days (except for when he wrestles Rush), but c'mon, work a few more beats before you celebrate and do the parrot shit. Casas and Hechicero then worked a muddled exchange to open the closing fall. It actually started off pretty well with Hechicero working rough with Casas, and Casas seemingly giving him a receipt with some great looking knees, but Casas started looking tired and his strikes loosened up. For some reason, their exchange went beyond a reasonable length for this sort of opening exchange and Hechicero went for a nearfall too early in the fall. Dragon Lee and Cachorro's work was earnest without being particularly good, but I remember what the Traumas were like when they first started making tape, so I'm not going to rag on the young guys. The hip toss spot was impressive and Cachorro's tope was spectacular, but again it came too early in the fall to have an impact. Virus vs. Cavernario was great and the one match-up coming out of this that I'd want to see again. Virus is so great at working strike exchanges (both throwing and selling), and his positioning for Cavernario's moves was exemplary. It was notable how much better Cavernario's nearfall came across despite their exchange being much shorter than Casas/Hechicero. The rest of the fall was about dropping bombs and was a mix of the good, the bad and the ugly. The Virus/Cavernario exchange where Virus was trying to get a submission on Cavernario was awesome, and Virus' muscle flex pose when he finally got it hooked was a genuine mark out moment for me, but Hechicero/Lee was an absolute mess and after three falls (good or bad) to finish on a piece of cheating wasn't cool. Satanico could have made it work. Sangre Chicana too. Perro Aguayo. Cien Caras. But Hechicero's not in that ball park as rudo. It's worth point out that everybody who's seen this bout has liked it. The feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. I wanted to like it since it's not every day you have four good workers in a trios. I gave it a second chance, and even a third as I was writing this up, but despite some good points it just didn't move me like good trios wrestling should. Virus is absolutely awesome, though.

Okay, but in that case Dave's memories of the Flyers doesn't gel with your appraisal of them. It's not really an argument about standards, is it?

Does this apply to when you're praising matches or when you're criticising them? I mean, if I praised Flair/Kerry would he tell me my praise means nothing because I wasn't there? If I praised it without understanding the context would he tell me I don't know what I'm talking about? Or is it only when people criticise a match for being dated or not holding up that he plays the context card? Is it okay for us to praise French catch, or should we not do so because no-one's ever done so in the past? Or can we praise French catch so long as he don't use hyperbole like "French catch was the best wrestling in the world in the 60s"?

Dave is assuming that the average person is going to find the Flair/Kerry cage match dated. The reason being that the majority of people find older things dated. I don't think he expects that people are going to use certain standards to judge the match fairly. The whole thing comes across as a defense of older wrestling.

I think the discord here is caused by the fact that when most of us watch older wrestling we don't immediately think: "boy, things sure have changed." We're more inclined to think: "wow, they did that back then?" or "shit, that's cool, I've never seem that before." Most of us look at older footage from a view point of the "basics." Any anachronisms there may be are either seen as quirky, different or awesome.

Mysterio got over in '96 because he was doing moves most people had never seen before. He wasn't having matches with great storytelling or psychology. Those would come later in the WWE. In '96, he didn't even have very good lucha psychology. He seemed influenced by Japanese juniors wrestling. But the only guy who came close what he could do athletically was probably Oro a few years earlier. Mysterio set new standards for high flying and did so with his speed, athleticism and execution. I can think of anything else major he did in those matches. He may have played an underdog role, I suppose, but Psicosis left his rudo act South of the border and his schtick was pretty much the springboard for Rey as a technico. What else did Mysterio bring that year other than sheer athleticism?

Athleticism is part of pro-wrestling. Why do people think El Dandy's 1990 is so great? Because of the things he was able to do athletically. Young Santo got over because of his athleticism. Casas and Fuerza got noticed because of an amazingly athletic match they had on an Anniversary card. Smaller wrestlers like the Brazos and Misioneros not only got over because of their athleticism, they changed the course of lucha history in the process. There are countless examples of athleticism playing a huge part in wrestling. If you're a fan of athletic wrestlers or you appreciate the athleticism of today's workers, it's not a stretch to imagination than the wrestling of yesterday is going to appear less athletic.There's a reason why some people would rather watch flashy young workers over past greats and I don't think it's necessarily bad taste. I also think many of us appreciate athleticism to a point then jump off the wagon when the wrestling no longer suits our tastes. To give another lucha example, I found young Shocker tolerable because the overall product was great, likewise Niebla, Black Warrior, etc. I could appreciate the role they played as young guys in trios matches. I didn't love them like Ciclon Ramirez and his tope back when lucha was really good, but flash forward to the present day and I can't tolerate a lot of the great athletes like Sombra, even though he's probably had a higher number of good singles matches than the rest of the names I've mentioned. A lot of what we praise depends on how caught up in the moment we are.

I don't have a problem with Dave's point of view, but I think it's pretty clear that he doesn't see any value in re-evaluating old footage. I don't think Dave cares about lost workers or undiscovered matches. I don't think he cares about territories he paid no attention to at the time. He cares about what the consensus was at the time. I imagine he sees it as part of the fabric of wrestling history, and I think there's merit in that. Unfortunately, it means he dismisses a lot of stuff he's unfamiliar with, but to his credit he'll defer to a Jose or a Steve Sims if it's not an area he's experienced with. I don't think he's suggesting that people shouldn't watch older footage, but he'd never accept that a guy who all of his peers thought was a great worker wasn't that great and that there were plenty of guys who were better than him. Maybe he's right, who knows? One thing's for sure, he's on a completely different wavelength from many of us here. Not that we're all that extreme. I joined a film board recently that stunned me in terms of how far people would go to find the smallest, most insignificant film from a director and claim it was an unheralded masterpiece better than the director's best work. Informative, but crazy.

Film is above all a visual medium. When I was a screenwriting major, it was instilled in us that we had to write visually no matter what type of story we were telling. I watch all sorts of films, but I dislike the "filmed stage play" aesthetic immensely. I don't think we can totally dismiss athleticism. If you were to compare the Shield, for example, with 80s WWF tag wrestling then I think a big difference in the standard of quality would be athleticism, and I suppose moves too. A lot of workers who we think are great at psychology or storytelling were originally lauded for their athleticism. Bihari always likes to say that older lucha fans likely felt the same way about early 80s Casas, Fuerza and Santo that we felt about Mistico, etc. So, athleticism has always played a part, much as it does in real sports. The reason why most 90s wrestling was originally praised was because 90s wrestling ratcheted up the athleticism. I also think a lot of the psychology and storytelling type matches today are wretched because they try to be too cinematic. There's been a big change there and not for the better. But you have to wonder whether they're going in that direction for a reason. Perhaps the dramatic pre-match montage and in-match soliloquies are the new standard.