ohtani's jacket

Liger doesn't have the greatest rep among Japanese hardcores. I'm not sure why, but they always play down his importance. Perhaps Dave has heard something similar. I will say from my experience that Liger is not a hugely recognisable star in Japan, but neither is Tanahashi. That makes sense given that Liger's just been a guy on the card for most of the last decade. Still, I guess Liger is better known due to the comic book gimmick and being the top junior heavyweight in the country when wrestling was much, much hotter. The comic book's not famous and the Liger gimmick came along after World Pro Wrestling was a big Friday night prime time show. I'd say Liger is more famous with wrestling fans than the general public. You never really see his image or mask around anywhere like you do with Showa era guys.

Really? I didn't know that. The only lucha matches that used to get pimped were AAA matches and late 90s CMLL.

Liger doesn't have the greatest rep among Japanese hardcores. I'm not sure why, but they always play down his importance. Perhaps Dave has heard something similar. I will say from my experience that Liger is not a hugely recognisable star in Japan, but neither is Tanahashi.

Depends on the botch, and probably my mood and how I'm feeling about the match. It's obviously worse if it's at a major point in the match and the workers continue selling as though they hit it. I don't like it when they reattempt the spot either. By and large, I think a good commentator can cover for any mistakes. Kent Walton would always sell it as though the wrestler hadn't executed the move properly, but he'd do that if he didn't think they'd executed any hold well enough. That made botches seem relatively natural in the course of a wrestling match, however it's probably easier to put over in a style that's predominantly about going for holds.

I'm not sure that this has that big a rep, aside from people pointing to it as an excellent performance from Fuerza and a tremendous carry job. It's miles better than their match from '92 and you only have to watch Octagon's matches against Satanico and Blue Panther to appreciate the fact you found it very good. The Panther matches in particular are eye-clawingly bad.

If you watch the earlier matches, there's no real focus on the young guys being a group. The commentator mentions that Tsuruta is teaming with veterans, but the emphasis is really on Misawa vs. Jumbo. Even in the Budokan match, there's no special mention made of Kobashi, Kawada and Taue being in Misawa's corner. Then suddenly heading into the summer the young guys working together becomes an angle, so I think I'll take the word of the commentator, the weekly wrestling magazine and the promotion itself on this one. I get what you're saying, but Misawa had tagged with Kobashi and Taue as Tiger Mask II, so the vibe I get is that the group proper emerged out of Misawa's win in July.

I'm going to try to keep up with this French Catch at the same pace as Phil. René Ben Chemoul/Gilbert Cesca vs. The Black Diamonds (2/28/65) This was probably the best tag match I've seen from Europe, and I've seen my share of English and German tags. The fact that it wasn't one of the best tag matches of all-time tells you plenty about how good European tag wrestling was. They just weren't very good at it. This was kind of a one note match with the same schtick repeated throughout (to the sounds of an excitable French commentator), but I was stoked to see Ginsberg again, who was awesome in the one WoS bout we have of his. I know the Black Diamonds were quite famous, though I'm not sure whether it was this version or the one with Eric Cutler. At one point, they wore black masks. Here they were pretending to be Americans. Whether that was reflected in the cheating they did, I'm not sure, but it gave slightly more focus to what is usually a pretty loose style of tag wrestling in European countries. The French wrestlers were good without really being outstanding.

I watched the first thirty seconds of this and the commentator gets all emotional comparing the creation of Misawa's group to the beginning of All Japan 18 years prior and asks what new dreams Misawa is going to give us. Also, the picture of Cho Sedai gun on the beach in Chiba was in the 1998 Tokyo Dome program.

Ray Steele vs. Tiger Dalibar Singh (10/2/86) This was a rematch to determine the vacant British Heavyweight title after the first match ended in a draw. Joint Promotions loved booking replays. It wasn't uncommon for the final of a tournament to be replayed once or twice before a champion was decided. It gave a sort of football feel to the wrestling; the same way the FA Cup final is replayed if it ends in a draw. Unfortunately, these two didn't match-up particularly well. They were the least of the Roach/Singh/Steele/Rudge/Roberts match-ups at any rate. There was some cool shit in their match-ups, especially involving Singh's headbutts, but overall a bit disappointing. Singh had his father and brother in attendance and they flooded the ring at the end, but he still couldn't muster a shred of emotion. Ray Steele vs. Dave Taylor (12/10/86) These two were supposed to have a rematch of their semi-final from the tournament for the British title, but in typical Joint Promotions fashion the rematch never happened and Steele advanced to the final without any explanation. Anyway, they went to another draw here in what was a decent enough bout. It was fun seeing Taylor in this environment as most of his available stuff is from the German tournaments. Ray Steele vs. Tiger Dalibar Singh (10/8/87) Steele was still chasing the title here. This time he beat Singh in straight falls to stake his claim with the promoters. Again the bout was average. Ray Steele vs. Pat Roach (5/21/86) Steele had the right to a rematch within 90 days of losing his title to Roach and here he exercised that right. "Bomber" Pat Roach, who was rarely used in the title picture, was a popular champion it seemed. At least with this Digbeth crowd. This was okay, though Roach was a bit long in the tooth at this point. The finish was a good old fashioned injury finish. Haven't seen one of those in a while. If I don't sound so excited by all this, it's probably because Steele to Roach to Singh isn't the way I would have booked the heavyweight title. I think they should have given it to Roberts.

Taue was part of Misawa's group in Super Power Series (May-Jun) and Summer Action Series (Jul). By the start Summer Action Series II (Aug-Sep), he was over in Jumbo's team. Kawada and Kobashi were part of his group from the start in the Super Power Series, pretty much from the unmasking going forward. Kikuchi evolved over time into the group, largely due to his showings opposite Fuchi in May and the June fan appreciation show. By the start of the Summer Action Series in July, he was firmly the "junior" in the group. Ogawa is a different bird. If I recall correctly, he was out hurt during the transition period. He came back in October, largely preliming. In the Tag League, he was teaming with Fuchi and opposite Kikuchi several times. He farted around in the New Years series, before firmly being in Jumbo's group in the Excite series (Feb-Mar 1991). Weekly Pro Wrestling says they became a group at a training camp held in Chiba in August 1990. I think Asako, who was still a trainee at the time, was the sixth member and not Ogawa. According to WPW, the purpose of the camp was to strengthen the unity of the remaining young wrestlers after the defections. So they weren't a "group" in the prior to series despite Misawa, Kawada, Taue and Kobashi all teaming with each other all across the prior two series. And then Taue *not* teaming with Misawa, Kawada & Kobashi after the "training camp"? So much for unity. Misawa, Kawada, Taue and Kobashi were a group in the Super Power Series (May-Jun) and Summer Action Series (Jul). Look up the results and watch the weekly TV. If you're too lazy for that, watch the Jumbo-Misawa singles match from June and keep any eye out for who is in Misawa's corner. It's not terribly complex, and it's something we all knew at the time. Right down to Taue working the opening night in the Summer Action Series II in August with Jumbo & Fuchi against Misawa & Kawada & Kikuchi at Korakuen Hall: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/17716-mitsuharu-misawa-toshiaki-kawada-tsuyoshi-kikuchi-vs-jumbo-tsuruta-akira-taue-masa-fuchi-ajpw-summer-action-series-ii-081890 John Perhaps they were not officially a group until August despite having tagged together, or perhaps they simply hadn't been named yet. The WPW timeline makes sense in regard to the opening night of the Summer Action Series.

Miki Handa and Mami Kitamura were younger JWP girls who jumped with Kandori to LLPW. Handa was a decent worker, but Kitamura I don't know much about. I think she changed her name to Leo Kitamura. Anyway, this wasn't the Jumping Bomb Angels, it was Yamazaki and young girl vs. Kansai and young girl.

Taue was part of Misawa's group in Super Power Series (May-Jun) and Summer Action Series (Jul). By the start Summer Action Series II (Aug-Sep), he was over in Jumbo's team. Kawada and Kobashi were part of his group from the start in the Super Power Series, pretty much from the unmasking going forward. Kikuchi evolved over time into the group, largely due to his showings opposite Fuchi in May and the June fan appreciation show. By the start of the Summer Action Series in July, he was firmly the "junior" in the group. Ogawa is a different bird. If I recall correctly, he was out hurt during the transition period. He came back in October, largely preliming. In the Tag League, he was teaming with Fuchi and opposite Kikuchi several times. He farted around in the New Years series, before firmly being in Jumbo's group in the Excite series (Feb-Mar 1991). Weekly Pro Wrestling says they became a group at a training camp held in Chiba in August 1990. I think Asako, who was still a trainee at the time, was the sixth member and not Ogawa. According to WPW, the purpose of the camp was to strengthen the unity of the remaining young wrestlers after the defections.

Kawada was Misawa's junior. If he'd been his senior, it's possible the roles would have been reversed. Smack2k, throughout the 80s there was a theme of guys rebelling against the system or the establishment. Choshu did it and so did Maeda. The hardcore fan base was mainly made up of "salarymen" (white collar workers) who worked for very hierarchical companies and presumably got a kick out of the rebellious attitudes. In the August training camp in 1990, Misawa & Co formed their own group called Cho Sedai gun, which means Super Generation Army or something similar. Originally, I think it was Misawa, Kawada, Taue, Kobashi, Kikuchi and Ogawa, but Jumbo asked Taue to join his army after Yatsu left. They disbanded in 1998, if I'm not mistaken.

Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig (5/2/87) This was a sweet bout. It took me a while to switch into "US wrestling mode" and appreciate the base they were working from before they put it all on the line, and the crowd didn't help much, but the final third where the wear and tear took its toll was some class A professional wrestling. The heel turn probably works better for people who watched it in the context of the times or even the AWA set, but I was more worried about the match and it delivered in spades. I don't know how highly I rate pre-WWF Curt Hennig, but as far as young studs go I can't think of too many better.

I also liked this, but I agree it falls short of being great. In many ways the pre-match/post-match stuff seemed more significant than the bout itself.

CMLL 11/22/91.

You've got the wrong date here. This is the final of the tournament to crown the new CMLL World Trios champions. The match with Emilio Charles Jr was the WWA bout.

Is bizarre British English?

It occurred to me recently that I really don't like splinter promotions. Maybe I'm a bit conservative in the sense that I prefer more established, traditional promotions over new start ups, but I really can't stand promotions like UWF-i, AAA and All-Star Wrestling, both stylistically and in terms of what they did with the talent they took. Of course there exceptions. RINGS eventually became something great, PWFG and BattlARTS produced their share of good matches, and UWF was an offshoot to begin with. I also liked JWP after the split. UWA I'm not sure about. It may have been great or it may have been the 1970s AAA for me. Does anybody have a favourite or best splinter promotion?

Lucha has always been the poor cousin of Japanese and American wrestling. Actually, the reason I call my lucha blog the rather dull and unimaginative name of "Great Lucha" is that some guy on DVDVR once said lucha can never be great. It's always had a stigma attached to it, but on the positive side it's a lot more accessible than it used to be. You can now find a lot of the greatest matches online whereas only a few years ago lucha had very little presence on the internet.

I don't think anything's really changed in the past ten years. The most visible wrestlers are the ones who make it onto the variety shows, and successful talent like Hokuto and Sasaki are almost more famous for being TV talent now than professional wrestlers. Wrestling is more or less a niche hobby.

Ray Steele vs. Pete Roberts (10/2/85) This was the title shot that Pete Roberts earned by beating Steele in their last bout. The story here was that Roberts had always had a bit of hard luck whenever he challenged for a title and there was a surprising amount of focus on him as the challenger. In fact, Steele was presented as somewhat weak for a guy who had just claimed the heavyweight crown. The action wasn't bad -- it couldn't be really with these two -- but the booking left a bit to be desired. The finish was a double knockout after Roberts had been leading by a fall and it was obvious he would have won on points. Ray Steele vs. Tiger Dalibar Singh (12/11/85) Pat Roach vs. Tiger Dalibar Singh (12/11/85) This was another in Joint Promotions' endless series of knock out tournaments. Singh/Steele went to a points decision and was pretty typical one night only tournament wrestling. Roach/Singh ended surprisingly quickly, just to maintain the veneer that anything could happen on any given night. None of this was offensive, but not too memorable either. Ray Steele vs. Pat Roach (3/18/86) Steele not being booked as a strong heavyweight champion culminated with this rather unnecessary title loss to Pat Roach. It wasn't a bad bout as these two could still wrestle well despite the fact they were getting on in years, but again the booking was a mystery. I will say it was definitely one of the lesser bouts in their long series, but there was still the same dynamic of Steele trying to chop down a large tree. Mick McManus was the special guest referee here, and I got a kick out of him telling both wrestlers he wanted a good, clean bout. Mick was a small man, and he really made Roach and Steele seem like giants. Some of their exchanges where like watching the Hulk fight Thor in a Jack Kirby splash page. Ray Steele vs. Caswell Martin (5/14/86) So, as with all champions, Steele had the right to a rematch within 90 days of losing his title. You'd think they'd use the time between to put Ray over. That's what most promotions would do. But then Joint never really followed any rhyme or reason. This went to a draw, and again while it wasn't a bad bout, it was hard to see where it fit into the overall picture. Ray Steele vs. Dave Taylor (8/27/86) This was joined close to the end, right before the scoring... It wasn't possible to get a feel for how the bout was over all. Taylor looked awfully young. Roach vacated the British heavyweight title almost as soon as he won it, and they stretched out a tournament to decide the vacant belt with a draw here and a draw in the final, both pending rematches. Singh went on to win the title as poor old Steele got shafted again. Really, this disc could have been anything, but it ended up being rock solid. Steele wasn't booked great when he finally because the British Heavyweight champ, but my admiration for him as a worker has grown exponentially, and I doubt I'll ever hesitate to watch him work again.

Japanese wrestling fans who are indeed Japanese who live in Japan have no real reason to watch WWE, and the last guy I met who had the most casual of interests in the WWE said his favourite wrestler was Triple H. So there you go.

Pre-1990?

Yeah, that sounds like Hebner was reacting appropriately.