ohtani's jacket

Buddy Rose vs. Curt Hennig (5/14/83) This was a one fall match with about ten minutes of TV time remaining and was a good piece of TV. Sandy Barr was laid out after taking a bump and Rose took full advantage by busting Hennig open. Pretty cool for what it was. Buddy Rose vs. Curt Hennig (7/3/82) This was more along the lines of your classic grudge match with both guys looking to take the other guy out. There was a lot of knee work since that was the injury and attack that ignited the feud, but they dragged it out a bit, and the break between falls remains a real momentum killer for me.

I love me some Tony Schiavone, but when did he start developing a rapport with Bobby? When Bobby first jumped they were unbearable together.

These Tiger Mask matches made the DVDVR set: Tiger Mask vs. La Fiera (8/26/84) Kuniaki Kobayashi vs. Tiger Mask (6/21/85) Jumbo Tsuruta, Genichiro Tenryu & Tiger Mask vs. Shunji Takano, Hiro Saito & Strong Machine (4/6/86) Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Giant Baba & Tiger Mask (11/28/86) Genichiro Tenryu & Ashura Hara vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Tiger Mask (6/11/87) Stan Hansen & Ted Dibiase vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Tiger Mask (7/11/87) Genichiro Tenryu & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Yoshiaki Yatsu & Tiger Mask (1/23/88) Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Tiger Mask (3/9/88) Tiger Mask & Isao Takagi vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Toshiaki Kawada (7/16/88)

Not at all. We go off on tangents like this that start off as Dave-related. It's 4400 posts long. I started all this and I really didn't even have a horse in this race. I just thought it was weird that you'd start professional coverage of a sporting event with a Thumbs Up/Down poll from your readers. MMA involves a certain degree of match making and there are performance incentives designed to produce a more exciting card, so I think there is merit in the thumbs up/thumbs down system.

In Ebert and Siskel's case, they boiled it down to "Should I see this movie? Thumbs up -- yes. Thumbs down -- no." But they had a lot of trouble with the middle ground, since you can't give a 2.5 star movie the thumbs up. That's why Ebert generally rated a 2.5 star movie higher if he thought it was worth seeing, because people react more favourably to a 3 star rating than a 2.5 star one. If you know that Ebert generally rates higher and that he will give an action movie a positive review if it meets his genre expectations then I think the star system is useful. I certainly refer to ratings whenever I'm researching films or music albums. I think they're an invaluable research tool if you trust the reviewer's opinion. In the case of someone like Robert Christgau, I usually check his ratings to see how far apart we are. For MMA, it would be great to have a better resource for recommended fights instead of having to skim through google results. I don't think it necessarily needs to be star ratings, but more definitive lists would help.

I don't think Han carried the promotion not with natives like Tamura, Kohsaka and even Yamamoto.

I've often tracked down MMA fights/shows based on reviews or recommendations. It's a different kettle of fish from most sports, possibly because they're fights, though I have watched my share of classic sports.

El Dandy/La Fiera/Ultimo Dragon vs. Negro Casas/Black Magic/Jaque Mate (5/17/94) This was just a 15 minute, straight falls win for the technicos, with a bit of dissension among the rudos, but man were the Casas/Dandy exchanges good. They had an opening mat exchange that was very reminiscent of their work from '92; where the purpose of each hold was to show who's boss. Casas would take Dandy down face first to canvas and slap him in the back of the head or pull his hair, and Dandy would use his athleticism to escape, flaunting his machismo while slowly getting ticked off. I often mention how Dandy lost a lot of his athleticism after '91, but he was trimmer here than in a lot of his post-prime work and moving extremely well. Eventually he got frustrated with Casas, and they had a slapping contest that let to some feisty headlock take downs; but when everyone flooded the ring, Dandy shook Casas' hand to calm things down, showing that their rivalry was built on mutual respect as much as contempt. Then as an added bonus, we got a surprisingly good mat exchange between Norman Smiley and Ultimo Dragon with a lot of quick movement and jockeying for position before the necessities of the story line took over. It's a shame Casas and Dandy didn't have more singles matches together as they were clearly one of the best pairings of all-time, but kudos to the guy who found and uploaded this as it was one of the better lucha exchanges I've seen in a while. Tony Arce/Vulcano/Bestia Salvaje vs. Apolo Dantes/Cesar Dantes/El Antifaz (3/29/91) This started off a bit low key, but picked up as they did more crowd pleasing spots. It was during a somewhat aimless period for Los Destructores where they were without a regular partner and had a different rudo fill in most nights. Bestia was the man here and was having a whale of a time, bumping like a fool and letting out huge cackles. He was a fantastic wrestler at this point and in the prime of his life. The form on his flog splash was beautiful. Cesar Dantes also impressed me here. He's not a guy I've seen a lot of, but he was a compact sort of worker who brought some neat offensive touches to the match, kind of like Javier Cruz. Lizmark vs. La Parka, National Light Heavyweight Championship match (9/9/94) As a title match, this was a joke: Lizmark spent more time fighting La Parka's second, Vulcano, than Parka, Parka won two falls with fouls, and most of what they did wouldn't fly in an apuesta match let alone a title bout. As a spectacle, it was worth watching just to see how far they would go. There were a couple of amusing moments, like someone in the crowd putting their hat on Lizmark while he sold a beat down and Parka gyrating with the belt around his waist, but in the main they just shat on lucha title match wrestling; which is a real kick in the balls, Parka style, as I was pumped to discover there was a trilogy of these matches. El Satanico/MS-1/Pirata Morgan vs. El Dandy/Konnan/Octagon (11/15/91) Short semi-final for the World Trios title tournament that was neither here nor there. Konnan was terrible, but Dandy and Octagon spared their side any blushes by having some awesome ring-clearing exchanges with the Infernales. None of the rudos were at their best, though, which made this a bit more uneventful than it could have been. El Dandy/El Satanico/El Texano vs. Angel Azteca/Atlantis/Xavier Cruz (4/13/90) 1990 may be my favourite year in lucha, but I haven't watched much of the Azteca stuff in a while. This was a rare case of all six guys in the match being good, so what we got was a spotfest of sorts where the rudos tried to show their technique was superior or equal to the technicos. Folks looking for swings in momentum or any sort of storytelling will be disappointed, but for rapid fire exchanges this one is tough to beat. As per usual, it's the singles matches that could have come out of this that was the most enticing part. Texano was amazingly athletic in this and his exchanges with Azteca made him look like a much better dance partner for Angel than Emilio was, and the Dandy/Atlantis exchange at the end is so beautiful and intricate that they were surely the best possible match-up of 1990, making it a damn shame that their only recorded bout wasn't a proper match. Perro Aguayo vs. Sangre Chicana, cage match (Monterrey 1991) This had the usual amount of blood and violence from Chicana vs. Aguayo, but there was too much bullshit with the ref for it to be considered good and it was painfully slow at times. The crowd got a kick out of the ref being stripped to his underwear, but even though Aguayo used the ref's shirt sleeve to choke the life out of Chicana, shit like that did nothing to spark my enthusiasm. The best thing about this was a television ad where a pizza guy hopped into the ring and delivered right to the apron. That had a lot more action than the endless low blows and wandering about.

So, I decided to get a disc of Ray Steele matches made. Steele is an unlikely choice for a comp, and even though I chose plenty of matches against guys I like, it was either going to be a tremendous surprise or a complete waste of money. But boy has it been fun. Ray Steele vs. John Elijah (7/22/82) I loved this. I've always had a soft spot for John "the Bear" Elijah, the paleontologist and zoologist, and one time owner of a bear. He was a power wrestler and did a lot of strength holds, including the bear hug of course, and while he wasn't a complete grappler he always gave 100% just like his opponent and had a few neat tricks like Arn Anderson style comedic expressions. Steele, of course, was no showmanship just straight up wrestling, but what I've discovered was that he was a better worker than I gave him credit for in the past. This was a battle of strength holds and a Larry Z game of human chess, and as I've said recently it won't be everyone's cup of tea, but the perspiration and effort that went into this for a pair of big men was terrific to see. Tom Tyrone vs. Ray Steele (4/11/84) I was a bit worried when this was joined in round four, but they ended up showing half of an eight round bout so we got to see plenty of wrestling. Tom Tyrone was a promising young heavyweight who had the misfortune to come along at a time when the business was dying. I've seen him have great matches against Terry Rudge and Pat Roach. This wasn't on the level of those bouts, but it was very satisfying for what it was. Steele treated the kid like he did everyone and gave the best he had that night and the wrestling was very good. Pat Roach vs. Ray Steele (12/19/84) These two matched up countless times over the years and their fights were always good. This was only a 10 minute bout as it was one of those one night knock out tournament deals, this time featuring super big men, but it was great while it lasted. I love how Steele approaches these bouts against Roach, as though he has to chop Roach down to size. They always have really bruising encounters where they uppercuts and knees at each other. Roach usually overpowers Steele in the end, but it's always entertaining. Ray Steele vs. Pete Roberts (9/3/85) This was from the first stand alone episode of wrestling the week after World of Sport ended, and what a great bout to start the new format. This was some serious wrestling. Eight five minute rounds, and the result was an epic contest. Steele had just won the British Heavyweight Championship defeating Roberts in the final of a tournament to decide the vacant title (at least that's what Walton said, the title history I'm looking at says otherwise), and this was a return bout with Roberts trying to earn a title shot. Great feeling out period, great strikes, tremendous game of human chess. Roberts really had a fantastic 1985. I'd have to think about it, but he may have been the best guy on TV that year.

Buddy Rose vs. Curt Hennig (3/26/83) This was good stuff. Hennig was impressive for a guy with his level of experience, had a great physique and looked fluid working holds. This was a grudge match for an injury Rose had inflicted on Hennig months before, but instead of a brawl or the heated sort of performance Martel gave a few years earlier, they went the "fired up babyface tries to out wrestle, pin and humiliate his nemesis" route. The match ended with an angle and was just an appetizer, but a pretty tasty one. Buddy Rose vs. Curt Hennig (5/28/83) This was really great, perhaps the best Buddy Rose I've seen. He was in really great shape here and they worked the first Portland match I've seen where I could get a rhythm for the falls and the way they overlap and build jeopardy. The first fall was really fun with some great athletic spots and a cool finish. The second fall was the meat of the match and a tremendous tussle and the third fall capped things off with a desperate finishing stretch and a screwy but ultimately satisfying ending. Rose was awesome in this.

This feud is so awesome. It may be my favourite stuff from Memphis.

If you compare Bryan/Hunter with something like Naito/Ishii from Invasion Attack, which was roughly the same length, the chances are there were more moves and a greater amount of action in the New Japan match and more selling and storytelling in the Wrestlemania match. I'll take your word for it that most New Japan fans are also WWE fans, that may very well be the case. I think New Japan and WWE are pretty much synonymous with Japanese and US wrestling as this point in time.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. You think there are more people in the western world in 2014 would seek out foreign language wrestling with guys who have funny names than would seek out WWE's own secondary product? Really? This is exactly what I was talking about earlier. Japanese wrestling is not inherently better than anything. Stop acting like if is. New Japan main events tend to be longer and have more wrestling in them. I don't really see how that's disputable. Who's talking about the number of people who watch WWE or Japanese wrestling? We're talking about hardcores, people who follow and watch wrestling online, and what they think of different wrestling styles. I don't think that Japanese wrestling is inherently better than anything else, but some people do and I don't see the point in pretending that it's not part of its appeal. The original poster asked whether there are people who still believe that modern Japanese wrestling outclasses US wrestling and I assume there still are since New Japan does very well in the WON voting.

Terry Rudge vs. John Carlo (3/14/74) Pre-asskicker Rudge. He did a pretty valiant job of putting over local boy John Carlo, letting him kick out of more than half a dozen finishing moves. Good day at the office in terms of what they were trying to achieve, but not the asskickery you want to see from Terry.

Steve Logan vs. Spencer Churchill (10/10/74) Logan was wrestling twice in one night, so this was never going to be more than a trip to the final for him, but it was a decent enough tussle while it lasted. Terry Rudge vs. John Carlo (3/14/74) Pre-asskicker Rudge. He did a pretty valiant job of putting over local boy John Carlo, letting him kick out of more than half a dozen finishing moves. Good day at the office in terms of what they were trying to achieve, but not the asskickery you want to see from Terry. Reverend Michael Brooks vs. Johnny Peters (aired 8/30/75) Only old-school British wrestling could have a wrestling priest. I don't see how he could ever lose what with the Lord being on his side and all. Father Brooks hadn't been on TV for several years, but worked this quasi-exhibition match on a card which featured a rare George Kidd appearance. Peters was making his TV debut and this was pretty genial as you would imagine with a wrestling priest. Romany Riley vs. Johnny Wilson (2/21/77) More solid heavyweight wrestling. As usual, I enjoyed the effort. It's impressive the depth that British wrestling had in the heavyweight ranks when you have such good matches from the second tier guys.

But by the same token, people who are invested in Daniel Bryan, etc., are going to enjoy the narrative heavy stuff more than people who are turned off by the commentators driving home the story line at every turn. Japanese wrestling has long been an alternative for people who are dissatisfied with the US product. We can drop the term "work rate" if people like, though I don't believe that WWE matches are as work heavy as New Japan main events, The point is that I don't think anything's really changed. People seek out Japanese wrestling because they're sick of John Cena and Randy Orton, etc. I would assume, from past experience, there are a great deal more people like that than fans who can enjoy Cesaro matches on NXT and Main Event and the latest five star Tanahashi bout.

Right, but there's gonna be people who like his earlier albums better.

New Japan matches tend to be longer and denser with a lot more moves, including long finishing stretches with a ton of near falls and big moves. If you don't like the WWE style or are turned off by the booking, then New Japan presents an alternative. It wouldn't surprise me if there are a subset of fans who think Danielson has dumbed down his style in the WWE.

Charles Lucero vs. Blue Panther, WWA World Middleweight Championship, Lucha Libre Azteca 5/9/2004 I didn't love this as much as I hoped I would, but given your love of lucha title matches you'll probably want to include this.

Japan had so many promotions in the 90s that the sheer weight of volume makes it difficult to make a comparison, but I would say that CMLL from 1990 until 1992, or at least the AAA split, was as good as any promotion in Japan. Add to that fun, quality matches from UWA and Monterrey, and the lucha scene was still quite strong in the early 90s. Then when CMLL picked up again in '96-97, it had the best week to week wrestling of any promotion in the world. These days people who watch CMLL tend to fall between those who like to watch the older maestros, who wrestle a somewhat more traditional style, and the young high fliers, but on the whole I'd say CMLL's match quality is pretty average for the number of hours of television they produce, though the wrestlers have been working harder in recent years due to business being down. The indie scene in Mexico isn't very good at the moment either, so the whole scene is spluttering along. The only Japanese stuff I watch are the pimped NJPW matches, which are flawed but basically provide a workrate alternative to the WWE much as Japanese wrestling has always done. Modern WWE is in a different stratosphere compared to the in-ring product I grew up on, but tends to get overrated. I'm not sure any of the scenes are that good anymore. It's more about small pockets of work here and there.

Ray Steele vs. Johnny South (3/27/74) More no frills heavyweight British wrestling. Not everybody's cup of tea, but I've come to like these bouts more and more over time. This was a neat opportunity to see Johnny South as more than just a foil to the Les Kelletts and such. He had a really 70s look, kind of like a balding Maurice Gibb. Since these were a pair of plain old blue eyes amid the glam of television wrestling, South livened things up a bit by needling Steele. Steele thought South was a right bugger and led with the knee a lot, making this a really testy, physical heavyweight contest. Ray Steele vs. Romany Riley (10/10/74) This was another solid contest. I always rag on Steele a bit for his lack of personality, but there must have been a reason why the promoters had him on TV a dozen times in 1974 other than the fact they were grooming him as heavyweight star of great potential. Perhaps the crowds viewed him as a good clean cut lad. He was a fine wrestler, no doubt about that. Nothing flashy just sound fundamental grappling and strength holds that make sense.

Some more... Emilio Charles Jr in '89. Blue Panther in '91. Jim Breaks in '79. Jon Cortez in 1981. Kyoko Inoue in '93. Pirata Morgan in 1989.

I like most of the Steiners stuff against Doom, Williams & Gordy and even Money Inc, but that Sting/Luger match never did anything for me.

Yoshida was 1999. Some notable ones for me: Fujiwara in 1990 and Tamura in '96. Hashimoto in '96. Choshu in '86. Chigusa in '86. Mark Rocco in '78. Ozaki in '96. Pierroth Jr in '92. Steve Grey in '83. Carl Greco in '97. Bestia Salvaje in '92. Arn Anderson and Ricky Steamboat in '92. Windham in '93. Dustin Rhodes in '94. Negro Casas in '97. Satanico in 1990.

Charles Lucero vs. Blue Panther, WWA World Middleweight Championship, Lucha Libre Azteca 5/9/2004 This was a good match, but not a great one. Much of that boils down to expectations. When I first heard there was a Panther vs. Lucero singles match, I started wondering what it looked like and how they worked it. I practically booked the thing in my head. I had fantasies of a match that resembled the 1992 title match between Santo and Espanto Jr, forgetting that these two workers are well past their primes and that Panther is a questionable singles worker in my view. At first the bout was a disappointment, then I watched it a second and a third time, each time shedding my expectations and trying to find a way into the match. Unfortunately, that hook never really came, but the more I watched it and the less I cared about it being one of the greatest matches of all time, the more I began to appreciate some of the smaller touches. The match opened with a ten minute fall, which is a variation on the natural rhythm of a lucha libre title match. An extended mat work fall is more common in trios than in singles matches; ordinarily, ten minutes of mat work would be a mat lover's dream, but while I appreciated that they were able to work a mat fall with an escalating sense of jeopardy, I couldn't really mask my disappointment with the quality of the work. The holds weren't bad, but there was a lot of dressing and undressing of holds, and not a tremendous amount of struggle even if they did perspire a lot from the length of the fall. There was one sequence in particular that really took me out of the match. It was a full nelson sequence where Lucero tried to counter it by breaking the hold and dropping to the mat, where he'd roll backwards and try to catch Panther in a body scissors. Now I like funk in my lucha, but Panther reapplied the nelson and Lucero ended up doing a standard switch, which was really boring and made the whole sequence flat. That may seem like a small gripe, but I didn't like it. Panther caught Lucero with the Fujiwara arm bar then they did a segunda caida where Lucero took a gamble and started running the ropes. There's always a risk when you go to the ropes as a missed move is all it takes to lose the fall, but it paid off for Charles. Then we got a neat opening to the third fall where Panther was aggressively working towards a second submission with Lucero hanging on by his teeth. Lucero's selling of his leg was excellent and his submission counters were well timed. There was a headlock submission where he kept wrenching at it that could have easily won the bout, and I would have rather seen them go with a straight submission win than the surprise small package Lucero scored after Panther had all but submitted him in the ropes. I guess my problem with this was that Panther took too much of the bout and Lucero's win came across as a fluke. It almost felt like Panther coming up to Nuevo Leon to lead some local by the nose instead of the maestro vs. maestro bout it should have been. I don't think it's any coincidence that I've preferred the bouts where Lucero's the vet and takes that lead role. Still, it was Panther vs. Lucero, and well worth your time (and possibly more than that) depending on your take on it.