ohtani's jacket

I'm going to have to watch some stuff and judge for myself. I think it's a slippery slope when we start saying workers are bad because we can't find any other matches where they look as good as they did in one particular bout, but I will watch whatever I can find. The Cota and Hamada matches you refer to are they the Japanese TV footage or has something new dropped that I'm unaware of?

Gran Markus Jr/Monje Negro/Milo Caballero vs. El Dandy/Apolo Estrada/Monarca (Monterrey 1989) This was a chance to see Dandy in Monterrey during his classic period. Unfortunately, the footage was JIP during the segunda caida and what we got wasn't much of a match. Dandy was lighter than the other workers in the match so was mostly thrown about by the heavyweights. The bout was mostly centered around Gran Markus Jr vs Apolo Estrada, which wasn't bad. I feel like I'm watching some kind of weird territory I've never seen before when I watch these Apolo Estrada matches. He's not the greatest worker, but I kind of dig his mannerisms. Milo Caballero was a rudo here. Personally, I prefer his tecnico work, and now I officially have a stance on Milo Caballero.

Panther wasn’t the same type of rudo as Cora, Satanico or Casas. If he’d spent more of his career unmasked, he may have eventually been as good as Bestia Salvaje, though I kind of doubt it as Panther never really struck me as a guy who had much in the way of performing chops. I’m not sure why they made him work rudo so often other than his ability to carry young tecnicos. Perhaps it was his own personal preference. Whatever the case, compare this match to a feud like Panther vs Love Machine, and it’s obvious to me that he doesn’t have the chops for the latter type of feud in the way that a Casas or Fuerza Guerrera would. It’s not the type of Panther match that I want to see. I want to see Panther vs. Atlantis, or Santo, or Charlie Lucero. There is room in lucha to have a pure technical bout, especially in a title bout. There’s no law that says to be a great title match you need to have great character work and a ton of drama in the tercera. Those things are nice, but there’s also skill-based lucha where there doesn’t need to be huge amounts of drama. I can imagine Solar vs Atlantis being worked along these lines whereas Solar vs Pirate Morgan or Satanico would be an entirely different bout. The latter type of bout leans more heavily towards the apuestas bouts that some people prefer to lucha title matches. I get that, but I hope more people will grow to appreciate the beauty of this match. The ‘97 match is a wonderful contrast as its much grittier and shows how much lucha has changed in the preceding six years. I love both matches as a set and would take them over pretty much any other lucha if Noah built an ark and we were only allowed to save two lucha matches. Either that or the famous minis title match and trios bout.

When I watch Inoki, I’m looking for mat heavy bouts that contain a lot of striking and quasi-shoot style work. I can’t stand Inoki matches against foreign guys unless they’re early in his JWA days or against a guy like Backlund. There are a lot of Inoki vs. foreign guy matches out there, and those are matches that people gravitate towards because they’re names they know. Those matches tend to inform most of the opinion surrounding Inoki. A lot of Inoki vs. native matches seem innately boring to the average fan despite their merits. Throw in the crazy stories people hear, and the prevailing image of him being the Hulk Hogan of Japan and holding other wrestlers down, and you have the basis for the lack of enthusiasm surrounding Inoki as a worker. I don’t think he was some super genius as a worker, but I like the aura surrounding younger Inoki as an athlete and a fighter, and there are select matches I like. He was pretty good in the early years of NJPW in terms of brawling with foreigners as it was an extension of the stuff he’d done in JWA, but after the proto-MMA stuff takes off, it’s hard to watch him fighting run of the mill foreign guys. Hashimoto is similar in the sense that I’m looking for something specific from him and it’s actually quite minimalist. I’d rather watch Hashimoto have a low key struggle with a Fujiwara or Regal than a Tokyo Dome main event. I don’t mind his mat work, largely because it’s Hashimoto doing it so I can get behind it. I don’t think a dude his size is going to be a naturally gifted athlete, but he can still be effective. I don’t like post-98 Hashimoto much outside of the odd performance here and there. I think the Ogawa feud killed his career and he was never the same afterward. it’s a tough choice, but if you were to tell me there was a great undiscovered Inoki and Hashimoto match out there, and I could only choose one of them, I’d have to go with Inoki at this stage.

This is such a beautiful lucha libre match. The argument that it needs character work or escalation makes me wonder if people can appreciate beauty for beauty’s sake. It’s a silly argument as well because you have two characters and there’s clear escalators because it’s a two out of three falls match. Why does there have to be “storytelling” within a title match? What does that mean? Would this have been a better match if they had bled and torn each others’ masks? The beauty of this match is that it’s the entire opposite of those lucha tropes. It’s about as pure a lucha match as you can imagine. There’s no need to sully it with storytelling. That’s what happened in AAA and the results weren’t great.

Apolo Estrada vs. Negro Navarro (Monterrey 1989) This may be the best Misioneros era Navarro match we have on tape. In fact, it may be the best pre-2001 Navarro match we have. Navarro looks far more comfortable at this state as a rudo brawler than a technical wrestler or a trios worker. If Estrada is the same guy that’s on Luchawiki then he died the following year of a brain tumor, which is crazy. The match grew better as if went along and ended being a pretty cool example of how to put a local guy over in a non-apuesta match.

Gran Hamada/Silver King/El Texano vs Dr. Wagner Jr/Indomito/Babe Face (Monterrey 1991 This was a slower paced match that finished with a flurry. It continued the Texano vs Indomito feud. If you knew Indomito up until now, it was probably as one of the replacements for Texano in the Misioneros. Steve Sims didn’t have great things to say about that in Texano’s obit, but it turns out we didn’t know 1991 lucha as well as thought we did, as this is great stuff regardless of how well it drew. Hamada vs Babe Face is also great, but you expect that with their history. Texano may be a top 10 lucha worker for ‘91 after it’s all said and done

I hated the Santo/Felino Monterey match but everyone else loves it. I need to check that out again.

Kato Kung Lee/Texano/Villanos IV y V vs Indomito/Signo/Tigre Blanco/Negro Navarro (Monterrey 1991) This was a fun match. Texano was a tecnico here and a large part of the bout was focused on the rudos targeting him, and his matchup with Indomito, who was rocking S&M Demolition gear. Texano was such a great worker. I swear if there was more footage available of him, we’d talk about him in the same breath as Pirate Morgan and other greats from this era. Keep track of the work he does in this match. It’s phenomenal given the stakes. Everyone else is dependable. I love Signo and he always matches up well with Villano IV. Navarro wasn’t as good as he was during his maestro days but was solid. Kato Kung Lee did some decent Super Astro style schtick. The only weak participant was Tigre Blanco. Indomito worked hard, bladed, and took ate a couple of piledrivers. I could see him winning some fans. However, for me this was all about Texano, and I’m glad we have another match that shows how great he was.

What makes you say that Cochisse was a bad wrestler? He was already in his early 40s here and had been wrestling since the late 60s. By the time we get regular footage in ‘89, he is low on the card and barely featured. Is he bad in the rest of the footage we have of him? Or simply not as good as he looked in the match against Satanico? He had a number of big singles matches in the late 70s and early 80s that makes me doubt that the Satanico match is an outlier.

Well, that's another point to consider. The matches were being wrestled in town halls not arenas. I can't remember if they used a bigger ring at Wembley Arena. If you think the rings are bad, you should check out the title belts.

The round breaks in classic WoS bouts are exceptionally short. They gave Walton a few moments to talk about each wrestler but little more than that. If there were commercial breaks thrown in that was because the matches were edited for television not because the breaks were a natural fit for a commercial. When RAW or Nitro cut for a commercial break it was because those shows aired live. The rounds system has never bothered me. I like the way that Walton and the wrestlers are constantly aware of how much time is left in the fall and how this affects their strategies in regard to scoring a pinfall or submission. The ring size is what it is. It used to confuse me back in the day why WCW rings were so much smaller than WWF rings, but you get used to it.

Terry Funk and Dory Funk Jr. Collect A $1,000 Bounty (July 26th, 1981) -- a short clip of the Funks collecting a bounty on Tommy Gilbert with Terry making sure to count their money. Solie tries to paint the Funks as wealthy individuals who don't need the money. Terry Funk Promo On Dusty Rhodes (1982) (Championship Wrestling From Florida) -- Terry gets upset over the things Dusty has done to him in the past and smashes his head against a steel cage. Repeatedly. Terry Funk & Dory Funk Jr. vs Steve Keirn & Cocoa Samoa (1981) (Championship Wrestling From Florida) -- cool looking house show footage. It wouldn't surprise me if Solie shot this himself as he loved to shoot up close. Terry Funk Calls Billy Jack Haynes "Totally Synthetic" (1984) -- ha, ha, this cut close to home. Classic Terry Funk. Jack & Jerry Brisco vs Dory Funk Jr. & Terry Funk (March 27th, 1982) @Bayfront Center -- this was a fascinating period in the careers of the Funks and the Briscos as they could still go but weren't top billing anymore. We get more footage than usual and plenty of action. The Briscos tag tram work adds a lot to Jack's case for one of the Greatest of All-Time and needs to be explored more, IMO.

Negro Casas/Emilio Charles Jr/M Asesino Jr vs. Panterita del Ring/Volador/Angel Azteca (Monterrey 91) The Casas vs Panterita feud continues. I've seen enough now to call it one of the more memorable lucha rivalries of 1991 even if it doesn't lead to any wagers. This was a fairly lacklustre trios match outside of the Casas/Panterita exchanges. It was dominated by the rudos yet somehow the tecnicos won. I was hoping to see a spark of something from Angel Azteca, but the tecnicos barely broke a sweat. Emilio was clearly on autopilot in Monterrey, but even autopilot Emilio can be entertaining at times. I would skip this unless you want to see more Casas from '91.

Screw your Ultimo Guerrero vs Park Anniversary Show matches, I'll take Park vs. Dandy any day of the week. Throw in my boy Mano Negra and it's a done deal. Park's shtick works so much better in the indies than it does in Arena Mexico. Dandy vs. Park was awesome. I could definitely do with more El Dandy in my life. I don't know whether he bust his ass because he knew it would be filmed or if there are other great vet performances out there.

This was such a disappointment compared to the build up, the match they had in Guadalajara, and everything they were capable of as workers. It was matches like this that soured me on this era of CMLL for a long time. In defense of the workers, I feel as though they were being rushed along, and the jump cuts made that even more pronounced. However, when your entire match is built around moves from the top turnbuckle and a couple of kick outs, you've lost me. This wasn't a patch on Zumbido vs Averno despite the bigger stage. Unfortunately, from memory, this became a bit of a trend as I remember Ultimo vs. Mistico being largely the same. Ominous signs that my enjoyment of this era of CMLL may be coming to an end.

All I remember from those heady days is Bischoff being called a former coffee gopher for Verne Gagne.

That I don't remember, but I'll happily take your word for it.

Bob Backlund vs. Ernie Ladd (WWWF, 10/23/78) This was a fun bout. Ernie Ladd was a big boy. I don't think he gets the credit he deserves a worker. Every time I watch one of his matches, I always come away thinking he was a solid big man. Backlund was a first rate opponent, but Ladd held up his end of the bout. I miss the days when a taped thumb was controversial. He got plenty of mileage out of that gimmick. This was great big man/little man stuff that had me wishing Bob had worked with Andre. That would have been a sight to behold. Bob lifting Ladd for the atomic drop was a great spot.

I think you can almost guarantee that Bret has never watched a second of El Dandy footage, but it was a great promo, and let's face it, for most WCW fans a job guy calling themselves "El Dandy" was amusing. The segment of NA fans who still think Dandy is a punchline are the same folks who listen to podcast reviews of old WWF & WCW pay-per-views and never expanded their interests in wrestling beyond the stuff they grew up on. I don't think it's really in Bret's character to make fun of job guys. I think he is legit when he says he had a lot of respect for those guys. I doubt he has much time for lucha, but I believe him when he says there was a kernel of truth to the promo he cut. The Larry Z thing is unavoidable. You don't know what you don't know. Larry's biggest success was in the WWF and AWA, and they weren't about to mention that on WCW TV every time he appeared. Instead, he was that living legend commentary guy, who was kind of annoying and feuded with Bischoff. What people didn't realize at the time was that he had an all-time great feud with Regal in '94. That was what was truly overlooked.

Bret actually cut a second promo about Dandy in '99. He's claimed in shoot interviews that he had nothing but respect for Dandy and it seems to gel.

Angel Blanco Jr/Babe Face/Hombre Bala vs. Milo Caballero/Monarca/Centurion Negro (Monterrey 1991) The Babe Face vs Caballero beef continues, and it is awesome! I was hoping we'd get some Hombre Bala in this footage. Extremely underrated worker. The tecnicos had more shine in this match than the previous trios, partially because of the narrative but also because they were working with a super base in Bala. Centurion Negro, in particular, got to stretch his legs and work some quick exchanges. Blanco was a bit raw at this stage and made a few mistakes, but Babe Face and Bala were like brothers-in-arms. They did the classic spot where the rudo and tecnico swap masks, which the crowd loved. It seemed like Negro's mask came off by mistake and he had to frantically put it back on in time for the finish. If that was a deliberate spot then it was a superb effort. There was a stupid but amusing spot afterwards where Bala and Babe Face attacked Blanco because they thought he was Centurion Negro. Blanco sold the shit out the mask exchange by conducting the post-match interview while still wearing Negro's mask. Fun bout.

Mascara Sagrada/Atlantis/Panterita del Ring vs. Negro Casas/Jerry Estrada/MS-1 (Monterrey 1991) This was a vintage Casas performance. He spent most of the first fall working over Panteria's arm and then they spent the rest of the match having awesome exchanges. Their exchanges here were much better than in the mano a mano. In fact, they made the mano a mano seem tame by comparison. It reminded me of Casas' performances against Ultimo Dragon, and is an absolute must-see if you're a Casas fan. The supporting cast chipped in with some cool stuff. Estrada took some big bumps and MS-1 also flung himself about with abandon. Sagrada nailed his big spot at the end, and Atlantis was Atlantis. Make sure you watch the video until the end as there's some fun stuff including Jerry Estrada taking out the television interviewer while trying to escape Atlantis, and the crowd drenching them with their drinks, and Casas grabbing Panteria by the holes in his mask to respond to his mic challenge. Exciting match.

Orton was screwed out of a world title shot at Taboo Tuesday, but his consolation prize was to main event the show. I guess that's better than being shunted down the card. This was never going to be a great match, but they tried their damnedest to make it a memorable one by gigging. In one of the bloodiest years in WWE history that I can remember, the pair of them cut deep and had fairly sick looking crimson masks. That was about the only thing that made the bout memorable except for the embrace at the end which I suppose signaled that Evolution was coming to an end. JR tried to shill Taboo Tuesday as one of the most memorable nights of his career. King had a better take by saying he doubted the concept in the beginning but was won over by the end. The trouble is the WWE hasn't had a great match on PPV in a while and their TV matches aren't being pimped either, so something isn't clicking.

Did the fans really vote for this matchup? I thought this feud ended with Hell in a Cell. Michaels hurt his knee during a match on RAW, so Triple H spent most of the bout beating him down while Shawn made Shawn faces. They teased a miraculous victory at the end only for Batsita and Edge to interfere and cost Shawn the title. Edge has apparently turned heel and was foaming at the mouth saying, "it should've been me!" Maybe it should have been. This would have been a decent RAW match, but it was underwhelming as a PPV bout. Mind you, this was a bit of a B show, so I guess that didn't really matter. JR's feigned indignation at Shawn losing was almost as bad as Shawn's acting. Apparently, things pick up again when Batstia starts feuding with Triple H, which can't come soon enough.