Clayton Jones

What a beautiful display of masterful pro wrestling. I've seen the main event of this show before but never this match, what a one two punch for these fans to be lucky enough to experience live. Hearing their appreciation for this match grow and grow was awesome. I loved seeing this more straight forward approach from Destroyer although when this one got chippy both guys snuck in some nasty shots. This never lost its sense of struggle while still being an amazing sporting exhibition, in fact it might have struck as good of a balance between the two as I've ever seen.

Ha you might as well have described my circumstance swapping out hardcore for metal and a vegetarian wife for a vegan partner. Sure there's overlap but there's wackjobs in every subculture. I'm just making the point there's nothing inherently connected about the ideologies. I could see an argument that's there's something about the personalities attracted to both, but that's still a pretty broad stroke. But I digress, fuck Austin Aries regardless of what he eats and how good he was at pro wrestling.

This is spinning off into an entirely different conversation but there is nothing crazy or inherently conspiracy theory/anti vax about deciding to be vegan. I agree Aries definitely had some of the worst stereotypes going on but nothing he was saying on the Stone Cold podcast was remotely close to this territory. Also mark me down in the "used to be great" camp although I'll add you could always tell never quite as great as he thought he was.

2/3 falls, Rikidozan's last singles match, a few weeks before he was murdered. This is also my first full Rikidozan match so I feel a little out of my element making this post but I want to preserve my thoughts. This was really good. I'm wondering as I dive into all the available footage if Destroyer's schtick will wear on me of if my opinion will keep growing. Right now it's definitely the latter. Everything built logically with a few big payoffs. Destroyer was great on offense and defense, stalling, and still keeping the focus on getting his comeuppance despite how exciting he was to watch. Rikidozan was economical with every move he made or expression he allowed, but he made for a good opponent for the very animated Destroyer. I thought the ref added a lot to this as well in a match where he had to be pretty hands-on. Maybe not an all-time great match (that finish though!) but darn close if it isn't.

Other than AIW's Go For Broke the GWE launch is definitely what I'm most looking forward to. Starting my ballot process has reinvigorated my watching habits more so than just about anything post pandemic.

Ridiculously stiff match that is very much the product of its times. The positives in this one by far outweigh the negatives for me and I have to give them extra credit for the abuse they took in front of 50 something fans. The early matwork was good but fairly inconsequential in typical J Cup fashion. The match built to a crescendo where it seemed only a knockout would keep either guy down. I don't remember hearing anything about this back when but it stacks up nicely against other indie epics in this era.

Yeah this totally flies in the face of the talking point that Piper is all promo. So chippy and physical, really great studio wrestling. Both guys bring a lot to the table. If I still had the Network this would absolutely be one to watch before they turn out the lights.

When they were trading submissions, focusing on the arm VS leg, and generally grappling this was really good. When they weren't it was hit or miss. This is a minor quibble but there's a spot where they trade hip swivels and neither guy really commits. I don't mind getting a little goofy but don't bother if you aren't going to go full Rude or at least Ultimo. It ended at the right time with a satisfying finish. Overall a good match that I wanted a little more out of given their rivalry.

Just short of great but still really, really good. Jumbo's fire was palpable from very early on. They pack a lot into this one but as Sleaze said it's not just a Flair go go go match. He adjusts as the match goes on nicely and brings a big title match feel despite it not going super long. Some of the execution wasn't great but man was the emotion there. The finish was rough but the teases on the countouts were so believable I almost don't mind.

They try to recreate the magic of the Takeover match right down to the very specific body part selling from O'Reilly. I think it was a mistake to have KOR working under so much of this match again. He does it exceptionally well but it made this feel structurally a little too similar despite more of a television match pace. Balor did bring more aggression to the table this time around and once again we get some unexpected blood. And another fantastic ending sequence and finish! This was a step down from their MOTYC last year but still a very good bout by the end of it.

I don't remember reading a single negative review for this match and it still surprised me with how good it was. Cohesive, urgent, mostly fueled by a fantastic babyface performance from O'Reilly but with juuust enough from Balor to say it's more than a carry job. My favorite things O'Reilly did in this match were the scrambles to the ropes, the dashes to close space and slap on a submission, stuff that demanded your attention. Top it off with an astonishingly succinct and fitting finish and this was certainly among the better matches I've seen from last year.

I'd love to focus more on this crop of names, the more you promote the more I'll watch. Hokuto is the only one especially high on my first draft. I could see Bull sky rocketing when I tackle her, but the rest are not likely to crack my top 100 without guidance. Man, 100 spots go quick, now my "under consideration" list keeps growing. I'll have to cap that at some point to keep things manageable. I want to spend a decent amount of time on everyone I'm considering, from #1 to #183 or what have you. That's the part I'm enjoying most, deciding who's up next to watch.

I didn't mind the ref stuff so much as the payoff of Satanico bringing his fist to his cheek, smiling fiendishly, and opening his hand was such a great moment. Watching this as I'm trying to fill in gaps for both guys and not through the lense of their feud so much, this was fantastic. As mentioned it's not exactly what you expect from a hair match but I didn't mind that at all as it brings elements of their previous matches without feeling like a rehash. The blistering pace combined with one of the best tercera caidas I've ever seen left me really high on this one. Granted I'm pretty intermediary on my lucha knowledge but as someone who likes elements of apeustas and title matches but leans towards the format of the latter, this was really up my alley. Beautiful combination of great action, a heated rivalry, great characters, and I loved the finish.

Success matters to me if someone was able to take a promotion or division that was lackluster otherwise and carry it to a must-watch run. A lot of that boils down to in-ring performance, but there are factors beyond that at play. So given two candidates that I see as virtually equal otherwise, that's something that might be a tie-breaker. After going back and reading the What Are We Voting For conversation I am swayed to think bell to bell should be at least 90% of what I'm evaluating. But I also think that being a pro wrestler, even if we're just talking the craft of pro wrestling, is more than matches. It's mainly match performance, by a wide margin, but I'm still trying to figure out ways to build a small consideration for stuff like presence outside of the ring into my voting. As long as it's based on footage. The key words here being "think" and "trying to figure out" as my ballot process is still in the embryonic phase.

Yeah the Greatest VS Best gets into the criteria discussion which I'm actually planning on going back and rereading everyone's takes on last time just as much as I'm planning out what footage to watch. I can already get a sense that I'm developing a flowchart for my ballot in terms of great matches, great accomplishments, great promos/presence, and innovation/influence. But at the end of the day I'm sure the conclusion I'll come to is everyone has to find their own method.

I'm in full support of this. Feeling like I didn't have the motivation to make the case for less prominent candidates (those are some good names, deathmatch guys come to mind as well, and more modern talent in general) was another reason I sat out last time.

What a great pace this one had. Every fall was riveting, everything built logically, and the work was beautiful. And hard hitting and jaw dropping at times. El Dandy's struggle to reach the ropes on the submissions at the end made for a great visual to leave a lasting impression on an already high end match.

That sounds very similar to my approach. And El Dandy is actually one of the key guys I would need to focus on. But yeah after going back and reading Cross Arm Breaker's awesome blog entries detailing his ballot VS the results, it made things feel much less daunting for me. 100 wrestlers all-time is actually a pretty exclusive list, and if push came to shove I'd be able to put a list together now that I'd feel pretty happy with. So if I watch on and off for the next 5 years with a focus on improving that list then there's no way I'll be disappointed by the end result. And also going back and reading things from last time reminds me that the journey is what I enjoy more than the conclusion, so why not commit to that at the very least? I much prefer watching wrestling with purpose rather than picking whatever catches my attention that day anyway. Just how I'm wired.

Fair enough. Maybe I'll make the plunge this time around. Thanks for the feedback guys.

General question as I debated voting last time but decided against it for a number of reasons. How many blindspots are voters comfortable with having while still submitting a ballot? And is your approach to deep dive one particular blindspot, or try to fill in a little of as many as possible? I loved the 80s projects because regardless if people disagreed on Fujinami/Inoki making a set or whatever, it was guaranteed we were all working from the same starting point. The only time I ever tried to participate in a greatest wrestler list was the inaugural WKO100, and while that was fun it was more wrestling than I've ever watched in a year when I was single and had much less responsibility. And even then I juuust got to a level I was comfortable voting for one year, in a project that took itself much less seriously in scope and general tone. Either way, even if they got a bit lost in the weeds at times, I really enjoyed all the conversations last time and it gave me a new level of respect for certain wrestlers, like Bockwinkel for example.

I don't think the finish ruins the match but I agree from a booking standpoint.

Watched this on a whim today and it did not disappoint. Starts off with the usual pairings you'd expect and Misawa actually looks really comfortable in the TMII role. He has excellent chemistry with Kobayashi here. The heavyweights bring the heat and this gets really chippy at times. There was some stuff with Killer Khan on the outside, possibly building to a match with Yatsu? Thankfully it doesn't come into play very much. It's interesting to me that Jumbo and Tenryu worked so heelish against Choshu and Yatsu throughout much of their feud, even though I always got the impression they were positioned in opposite roles booking wise. The crowd always seems to love them some Chosu/Yatsu regardless so it works. The last few minutes of this build to a beautiful climax of reversals, nasty lariats, big bumps, and a classic 80s nothing finish. Kind of over before it really gets going but still lots of fun.

This is more so my point, and that cable television is a very slowly dying medium. The numbers are the numbers but how they're analyzed is very much open to interpretation. I don't think we're getting even close to a full picture from TV ratings and haven't been in like a decade. I think the social media numbers being somewhat dismissed are more important than they're being given credit for. I think the live numbers across the industry that Meltzer is reporting are more important than TV ratings in terms of what it means for the long term health of the industry. But the overall point being made that I think is most silly to disagree with is that pushing top stars who are young, POC, female, LGBTQ+, won't help diversify and grow the audience. That's just common sense.

I agree with all of this. I think these topics are all very interesting ones. I don't think "wrestling is losing young fans" is an interesting topic or even true. Indie crowds were thriving, young, and more diverse than ever before the pandemic, at least based anecdotally on what I watch. If you are engaged on reddit and Instagram (I am) and I'm assuming Twitter (I'm not) you'll find being an older voice you're often drowned out by younger fans who were hooked as kids by the Lesnar/Cena/Rollins match and such. And I miss message board conversation as the primary mode of fan interaction online. It lends itself much more to the archivists, the amateur historians, the fans who just want to dig and dig. But I think the era where that fan was the primary tastemaker or curator for hardcore fans has come and gone. That element is still here but it's a bit more like seeking out a wizard on a hill to pass down knowledge these days.

I think the main issue with Misawa's booking of himself is in how he worked his matches late in his career, not so much who he lost or didn't lose to. Outside of a few examples he never transitioned to the veteran relying on experience and smarts to take on the physically superior younger generation. He typically worked equal to or stronger than his opponent, and if they beat him it felt like the luck of the draw. You could make the case this ties back into the manner he beat Jumbo, but Misawa has such clear momentum building that entire match. Besides '03 VS Kobashi I don't think he built to any of his major losses that effectively. Instead he looked like he was letting his opponent win most times instead of them taking it from him. All the while he was working slower and slower and spending more and more of his matches hiking up his tights. This isn't to discount the narrative that he was doing what he thought was necessary for NOAH's business. But I wouldn't say he was among the most unselfish stars either.