Grimmas

Wait... was I not right? What am I missing? order.

Why ? Jumbo not making the top 10 kinda sucks. I didn't expect that although I should have. I didn't comment on Bret dropping. Well, he was my #14. Above Flair. I'd like my world champ to look smart. Lawler in top 10 and Jumbo dropping to 11 fixes two big mistakes of the 2006 poll.

LAWLER MADE THE TOP TEN! Everybody rejoice!

11 - Jumbo Tsuruta 2006 Ranking: 1 Points: 11538 #1 Votes: 5 #2 Votes: 10 #3 Votes: 6 Top 10 Votes: 42 # of Ballots: 135 Average Vote: 19.29 High Vote: 1 (El-P, Brass Ring Club, Yo-Yo's Roomie, Dave Musgrave, & Dylan Harris) Low Vote: 82 Discussion Thread "Had his career consisted of just his late 80s, early 90s stuff, he would have been No. 1. But it wasn't, and there are quite a few periods of his career which I do not like as much." MoS "Has one of the coolest later periods of any wrestling career. Involved in some of the greatest feuds, both in singles and in tags, ever. Surly Jumbo is best Jumbo!" Jon Burr "I know there was a lot of discussion about him, but he literally checked off every category I look for for "The greatest wrestler ever." He had some of the best matches ever. He had a near 20 year run as an elite wrestler. In my opinion the best match of the 70s. And the 80s. And the Misawa match might have only been near the best of the 90s but it was my favorite. He excelled in every different situation he was in including tag teams with various partners. I love Jumbo and he is the epitome of a great wrestler for me." Dylan Harris "He was an in-ring master who had some of my favorite matches. His peak was arguably 1989-1991 which occurred after what many would consider a HOF career. He managed to transform himself as well and did as great a job of preparing the next generation as anyone I can think of. " Dave Musgrave "A whole show dedicated to it: http://placetobenation.com/makin-a-case-for-jumbo-tsuruta-as-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/" Jerryvonkramer Recommended Matches: Jumbo Tsuruta vs Terry Funk (AJPW, 6/11/1976) Jumbo Tsuruta vs Kerry Von Erich (AJPW, 5/22/1984) Jumbo Tsuruta vs Mitsuharu Misawa (AJPW, 9/1/1990)

I'll let the speculation go on who is the 1 of the final 11 to not make the top 10.

Oh yeah, there's absolutely no Memphis loyalty, not at all. When only Lawler and Dundee make the top 100, there isn't.

12 - Eddie Guerrero 2006 Ranking: 6 Points: 11369 #1 Votes: 1 #2 Votes: 2 #3 Votes: 2 Top 10 Votes: 24 # of Ballots: 146 Average Vote: 24.16 High Vote: 1 (Gus_Mcrea) Low Vote: 88 Discussion Thread "The last thing I did before starting to compose this was watch almost everything of Guerrero on the tape. In my opinion, probably the most versatile wrestler in history. Excellent in every role." MoS "Had moments in his career where his work was the most crisp, effortless looking in the business. Great, great heel and very versatile." Jon Burr "One of the most complete and charismatic performers in all of wrestling. Could be the most sympathetic face or the most dastardly heel on earth, could do crazy character work, promos, matches, could be serious or comedic, he could do it all. " Jimmy Redman "For me Eddie’s appeal is not necessarily stretches of top-notch wrestling or his number of great matches, but it is how he seemed to approach wrestling after 1996 and what made him stand out. I think Eddie’s strongest trait is that he always seemed to out perform the spot, the gimmick, the match, or whatever that was given to him. Eddie always seemed to make a story bigger than it was. The cruiserweights in many ways felt like just the flippy, athletic and often workrate portion of the show with few exceptions. Especially juxtaposed to the “story” heavy WCW product of the time, the cruisers didn’t have narratives that jumped off the page. Jericho and Eddie stood out in this regard and even though I kind of loved Jericho’s stuff, Eddie’s heel turn and feud with Rey made me sit up and take notice. It felt like a serious feud that had gotten personal in the best way possible. I was rewatching some of that a few weeks ago and it was framed so horribly too. It wasn’t paced out and given time to breath very well, to capture the moments where the audience is supposed to take in the seriousness of the situation. That is such a credit to Eddie (and Rey, but I think to a lesser extent) that he got a lot of the emotion and the urgency of the story through despite what was around him. Eddie was also great at making his lesser opponents better and more legit than they were in other contexts. It wasn’t just about getting a good match about them. He worked with them in a way that accentuated their character and made them more interesting. Bradshaw and RVD stand out to me as guys that I am not real fond of, but love their work with Guerrero. Another case is Malenko. Regardless of what you think about the Guerrero/Malenko matches from ECW (and I have sort of mixed feelings about them) I am not sure Malenko was ever more interesting than he seemed in those matches and I actually credit the way Eddie worked with him over time more than anything else. He worked with a sense of urgency that I think a lot of the cruisers in WCW tried to mimic with Dean. It highlighted Dean’s strengths and hid his weaknesses, but more to the point it turned his dull in ring persona into a caricature. Being ice cold was something we were told was part of his gimmick before, but it wasn’t till Eddie that I think that really came out in the ring and Malenko’s movements and nonverbal became legible as part of a broader story. The he paused, let Malenko stalk, and sold his submission work just brought a lot of Malenko I think. And that is Eddie’s best in-ring quality, his ability to work in multiple stories and characters in a way that brings a lot of layers of meaning to a match. It is what makes him stand out and excel. He brings his own character, his opponents character, the storyline, the endgame, and anyone who might involved outside the match into the ring work itself. I have talked elsewhere about how much I value the character being accented and forwarded in the work itself as a way of holding stories and matches together, something I think the greats do well. It gives something for everyone and makes the match itself so much more interesting. His indy work during his road to redemption was sort of example of this. Some of that stuff was terrible, but Eddie’s work in, even his attempts to save some of the worst matches (the Doug Williams match comes to mind) always seemed to help his opponent shine not just as a good worker but as a character. A lot of that just came in matching pace selling to their strengths. I think the Bradshaw feud is the perfect example of this too. I give his blood bath at Judgement day five stars. I know that is higher than most, I just think the way he worked that match from the second he came on the screen to the second he was off it was more or less flawless and he brought out an excellent performance from JBL. He works in the race and class politics in a way that makes Bradshaw look like a legitimate super villain (or at least compared to how he might have looked to the average fan months before that). Bradshaw was more or less a wrestling verison of King Pin (deceptively strong and smart billionaire who uses all of those things to get what he wants). Guerrero was the perfect opponent to highlight those things with his facial expressions, his selling, and the way they went back and forth. The whole feud is the only reason Bradshaw felt remotely legitimate as a champion and gained any momentum during that run, in my opinion. The face DQ was an amazing end to that because he “won” the fight by losing the match, highlighting how difficult it will be to top Bradshaw with all his resources and tricks on top of his physical skills. Looking back on those promos and matches, Guerrero was putting masterful performances that got everything (even the political tones) over in a way that made the whole thing hang together and gave the company multiple things to work with after. All of this is on top of his obvious athleticism and precision. I think he sold pretty well, but nothing super special. He had incredible attention to detail most of the time when it came to working and selling body parts, but his selling itself doesn’t stand out as something that adds to the drama often. He had his off nights of course, but for the most part I walk away from matches always satisfied or outright impressed with how crisp and tight he kept matches, especially considering I think he was one of the best at meshing lots of different styles in general. He kept lots of offense that was not really part of the American psychology really legit looking for the most part. By the time he hit the main event (or even the E) that wasn't odd, but he continued to evolve and stood at as a crisp and believable wrestler. Those are the things that I think make Eddie really good. They are skills that he brought to matches on superstars and heat as well as matches on PPV. He certainly has his weaknesses, but I think Eddie will be near the top for me. I am going to go back and (re)watch some of his lesser-acclaimed matches/runs and see how this manifests itself (or not)." CapitalTTruth Recommended Matches: Eddy Guerrero & Love Machine vs El Hijo del Santo & Octagon (AAA, 11/6/1994) Eddie Guerrero vs Too Cold Scorpio (ECW, 4/8/1995) Eddie Guerrero vs Brock Lesnar (WWE No Way Out, 2/15/2004)

151 ballots. That is even crazier. That means the 3 guys that did not rank him either really do not like him, have not seen enough of his stuff, which is hard to imagine or simply forgot to rank him. Vader had most amount of votes (tied with two others). Nobody got on all ballots.

13 - Genichiro Tenryu 2006 Ranking: 21 Points: 11318 #1 Votes: 5 #2 Votes: 3 #3 Votes: 9 Top 10 Votes: 39 # of Ballots: 131 Average Vote: 17.51 High Vote: 1 (Tanner Teat, Dean Rasmussen, djhaigh, Microstatistics, & ???) Low Vote: 81 Discussion Thread "Grumpy, lumpy, and indefatigable. A wandering sumo ronin of mythic proportions. You couldn't make up Tenryu if you tried." Jon Burr "Never boring, never had a down period, great for over 20 years, incomparable presence." djhaigh "Next to Jumbo, the best Japanese wrestler I can think of. His post 2000 run really adds to his portfolio." Dave Musgrave "6-9 are to respect the Japanese wrestling community, and to not throw off the voting average by not including them high enough, despite not having as deep a knowledge of their careers. Seeing their names on the list, this high, I would not question." Steven White "He faced a who's who of the best wrestlers from the U.S. and Japan accumulating high quality matches throughout his career." Moonsault Marvin "enryu is definitely a wrestler where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. His execution is sometimes flat out horrible, but it almost doesn't matter at all. He usually wrestles like he's in the Tokyo Dome, even when he's working a smaller venue. He's in the Choshu-Hashimoto-Onita group of guys who are so great at projecting themselves as larger than life through body language and facial expressions. I still need to wade through most of his 80s resume outside of the super classics, but I know his rep there is that it took him some time to find his voice. Definite top tier pick for me." Loss Recommended Matches: Genichiro Tenryu & Jumbo Tsuruta vs Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (AJPW, 1/28/1986) Genichiro Tenryu & Stan Hansen vs Giant Baba & Rusher Kimura (AJPW, 11/29/1989) Genichiro Tenryu vs Satoshi Kojima (AJPW, 7/17/2002)

148 is most amount of ballots anyone appeared on. Vader and two others got that many votes. It's strange not one person could get on all ballots.

151 ballots.

14 - Vader 2006 Ranking: 17 Points: 11140 #1 Votes: 0 #2 Votes: 1 #3 Votes: 1 Top 10 Votes: 16 # of Ballots: 148 Average Vote: 26.24 High Vote: 2 Low Vote: 83 Discussion Thread "Hopefully I'm not the high vote on him. Probably could have talked myself into making him #1. Surely my favorite guy to watch. Stiffness, violence, match construction. " djhaigh "Versatility is an odd choice of word since he's basically just Vader wherever he goes, but I think it is a credit to him that he is so universal that he can turn up anywhere - WCW, WWF, AWA, NJPW, AJPW, UWFI, etc. - and get over and have good matches just by Being Vader. He's one of those wrestling skeleton keys - opens any lock. I think it was shoot-style Vader that really sold me on him more than anything else. Having a big fat American in a mask come in and throw powerbombs and shit in a shoot-style environment sounds so wacky and counter-productive on the surface, but he does exactly that and it's fucking awesome. Vader is great in UWFI because he's able to portray both being a legitimately dangerous mountain of a man, AND being a shooting novice who is totally out of his element. He has no real defense for grappling or leg kicks or anything else MMAish, but he could also swipe your whole head off your shoulders if you aren't careful. I love the dynamic. That's the key to Vader everywhere really, like Brock he's big and powerful enough, and has enough of a badass aura that he can take the nutty bumps he does, get knocked down as often as he does, and sell as much as he does without losing any of his credibility. And his agility goes both ways too - he will bump all over the place, but he can also come off the top with a dive in a way that dudes his size just can't, which turns it back into something that makes him dangerous. The Sting series in amazing and some of my favourite ever 90s matches. I really love his UWFI run - vs Takada, Tamura, Yamazaki, etc. Hansen matches. Flair match. Final Four. Lots of great stuff, and I haven't really seen anything from NJ." Jimmy Redman Recommended Matches: Vader vs Shinya Hashimoto (NJPW, 4/24/1989) Vader vs Sting (WCW The Great American Bash, 7/12/1992) Vader vs Nobuhiko Takada (UWFI, 8/18/1994) NOTE: Highest ranked wrestler without a number 1 vote. NOTE: Tied, with two others, for most amount of votes.

Yeah, this should quiet some (I hope) that talked about mainstream voters ruining things. From 56 to 16!

The person is next. Working on the post now, so get your guesses in now.

15 - Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat 2006 Ranking: 13 Points: 11050 #1 Votes: 0 #2 Votes: 1 #3 Votes: 0 Top 10 Votes: 16 # of Ballots: 144 Average Vote: 24.64 High Vote: 2 (Derek C) Low Vote: 86 Discussion Thread "Best babyface ever and the architect of some of the best feuds and matches in wrestling history. Bonus points for his real name being RICHARD BLOOD." Jon Burr "The best babyface seller I can think of. As mentioned in Flair's section, his 1989 series with Flair has actually improved with time." Dave Musgrave "Ever since I watched Wrestlemania 3 the first time, Steamboat stood out as a favorite of mine. Fast forward to watching the Clash 6 match against Flair, the Clash 17 match against the Enforcers and I was just astonished at what the man could do. He is simply one of the best babyfaces that has ever been in pro wrestling. " mprice "I've always been a fan. I've always been a fan of his storytelling in the ring. To me he's the ultimate babyface worker. He's had great matches or feuds with a variety of wrestlers. You have Flair, Savage, Rude, Roberts, Austin, Blanchard, Anderson, Pillman, Muraco, Windham, Slater, Slaughter, Kernodle and a host of others.He had great single matches. He was one of the great tag workersin the likes of Anderson,Eaton, and that ilk. Young talent that worked with him usually learned from him and evolved into better wrestlers. Some of these guys are like Luger, Austin, Pillman, and Dustin Rhodes." Shoe Recommended Matches: Ricky Steamboat vs Randy Savage (WWF WrestleMania, 3/29/1987) Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair (2/3 Falls, NWA Clash of the Champions, 4/2/1989) Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude (Iron Man, WCW Beach Blash, 6/20/1992)

16 - Nick Bockwinkel 2006 Ranking: 56 Points: 10799 #1 Votes: 2 #2 Votes: 3 #3 Votes: 8 Top 10 Votes: 33 # of Ballots: 132 Average Vote: 21.41 High Vote: 1 (Matt D & Lee Casebolt) Low Vote: 96 Discussion Thread "If he had more footage/had I watched more, he could have been No. 1. Incredible in every respect. " MoS "Imagine if the only footage we had of Ric Flair was post-1995, plus some highlights of Flair/Steamboat and maybe his '70s match with Chris Taylor. Just eliminate his prime entirely. That's basically what we have of Bockwinkel, and he's still an obviously elite talent on the level of a Flair, Funk, Hansen, etc. It doesn't take too much imagination to fill in the blanks and come up with the best wrestler ever." Lee Casebolt "There are so many things that Nick Bockwinkel did so well that it's hard to even know where to start. What I'd like to do, to begin, is list out his range, a number of roles that he was effective in playing, and that he was able to wrestle good to great matches (some all-timers) while achieving. This is in no order: 1. Bumping, stooging heel for aging legend (Vs Verne, Mad Dog, Crusher, Baron) 2. Bumping, stooging vulnerable champion for up and and coming Ace babyface (Vs Hogan) 3. Reluctantly cheered champion holding the line vs a foreign threat (Vs Al-Kassie) 4. Comedy kingpin with a bunch of goons vs Super-babyfaces (with Heenan family Vs. Andre and Hogan) 5. Heel champion Ace vs technical up and coming babyfaces (vs Rheingans) 6. Tag role of the same (With Stevens vs High Flyers) 7. Southern tag heel (w/Saito vs Gagnes or Hennigs, or High-flyers) 8. Confident heel champ vs established technical opponent (vs Martel) 9. Same as a heel challenger establishing said new babyface champ. 10. Vulnerable but dangerous heel champion against deadly brawler (vs Wahoo) 11. Travelling champ who underestimates local hero (vs Chavo) 12. Snobby outsider champ who DOESN'T underestimate local hero but has to have a number of varied matches with him without losing the title (vs Lawler) 13. Fiery babyface wanting revenge (crazy sprint vs Zbyszko) 14. John Wayne (vs Hansen) 15. Super technical in front of a Japanese audience (vs Funk and vs Robinson) 16. Aging, cagey veteran trying to survive against a young babyface slowly surpassing him (vs Hennig) 17. US Supermatch that has to end in a draw (vs. Flair) 18. Travelling heel champ stooging big for the local hero while staying credible (vs JYD) 19. Desperate heel up against monsters (the clips we have vs Andre or Ladd) 20. Very strong shorter match TV worker during the Showboat era (vs. Debeers) And that's what we have from maybe 76-86, when he around 40 to just over 50. He spent decades of his career as a babyface. And there are more. I just picked twenty different in-ring functions that he had to do and had to do well, many of them calling upon different skills and talents, that involve someone actively wrestling differently. I could have given more examples of matches for almost every category too, with almost all of them being very good to great. That, to me is amazing. The only other people who would come close to this are #1 contenders, and almost all of those benefit from us having much more of their physical prime on tape or from working more broadly in multiple territories (though Bock, of course did. We just don't have a ton of that on tape; most of what we do is great). He was able to accomplish this through deeply and thoroughly understanding pro wrestling and storytelling, through engaging the crowd, through knowing when to give and when to take, knowing how to maximize moments and momentum, to fully committing to his role at all times. He was incredible at portraying emotion in matches, jubilant when causing punishment and terrified when getting overwhelmed. He refused to let the crowd dictate what he was doing, but instead forced them into line with what was best for them and the match, adapting but never surrendering ("You're boring them Martel!" being my favorite single wrestling moment I've seen in the last five years, maybe?). Everything had purpose. There are wrestlers, great wrestlers, who can string more-or-less unrelated chapters together so that their matches are better than the sum of their parts, so that they make a symbolic, thematic, more or less satisfying whole, but Bockwinkel was able to relate the chapters to one another so that he never had to do that. There wasn't that need for symbolism because the text stood on its own. It was finding the perfect moment to turn the babyface's offensive rush into a King of the Mountain heat segment, or how to start countering one bit of bodypart work with the opposite equivalent, and so on. There's no sixty minute match I've ever seen which tells so involved a story as Hennig vs Bockwinkel. I've never been satisfied with the idea that wrestling isn't a good medium for storytelling, because I've seen it. That match shows that it's possible, and not just over ten minutes but over sixty, and that it can be the most compelling thing in the world. He created stories that mattered to people, that resonated, that moved them, and he made it seem so flawless and so natural. There was so much variation, too. I can barely wrap my head around how he managed it. And of course the fundamentals were there. He bumps around the ring like a pinball for Verne Gagne. His long-term limb selling is exceptional, and he had a way of selling fatigue from a long match in the finishing stretch like almost no one else. I believe that selling is the key to creating meaning in wrestling and it's hard not to watch his performances and think that he'd been through a war and that maybe, just maybe, he was going to lose that title (and if he did, the babyface would have EARNED it). His matwork was wonderful, holds and counters, perfect timing, great facial expressions and trash talk, and screaming in pain when he was on the wrong end of it. His strikes were snug. His offense was varied. He moved in and out of holds so well in the opening segment of a match; there was such flow to it. He cheated extremely well (and man was he a great southern tag heel), and as a babyface, he could both garner sympathy and swallow the heel alive with righteous fury. That's the thing. he's not just a smart worker. He's a total package. At age 45, he could still outFunk prime Funk, outFlair prime Flair and even, at times, outHansen prime Hansen. But, almost always, he only goes to that level when it makes sense to go there, when the value is there, when the needs of the match calls for it. I don't think it's a big spoiler. He's my #1. There are amazing wrestlers on my list in the #2-9 spots, some of the most talented, skilled, brilliant, sound, varied people imaginable, with hundreds of great matches to prove their worth. I just can't imagine any of them in that #1 slot instead of Bockwinkel." Matt D Recommended Matches: Nick Bockwinkel vs Billy Robinson (AWA, 12/11/1980) Nick Bockwinkel vs Wahoo McDaniel (AWA, 8/28/1983) Nick Bockwinkel vs Curt Hennig (AWA, 11/21/1986)

17 - Bret "Hitman" Hart 2006 Ranking: 9 Points: 10757 #1 Votes: 9 #2 Votes: 6 #3 Votes: 3 Top 10 Votes: 21 # of Ballots: 138 Average Vote: 26.14 High Vote: 1 (Andrew Lacelle, NotJayTabb, Scarlet-Left, Beast, BAMptb, Hasan Mulla, jpchicago23, The Chief, & ???) Low Vote: 89 Discussion Thread "Greatest Canadian pro wrestler ever (when it comes to his career overall). He was one of the top workers in North America for several years." stunning_grover "His range of work is at an elite level. Great work against a wide variety of opponents. Diesel, Owen, Yoko, Lawler, etc. He had the most dynamic heel/babyface run in 97 ive ever seen. Hes my personal favorite which also helps." jpchicago23 "A WWE ace who could be responsible for having kept them in business. I think his late-WCW run is underrated, as is his final WWF match against Michaels before they did the screwjob finish." Dave Musgrave "Slumming it on house shows? Ok, if anyone can show me 100+ matches from a single wrestler from a single year where that person is never, ever taking a night off and always giving 4*+ performances then I'll consider that a valid argument. I'll go controversial: Bret suffers from anti-WWF-bias. If he'd been completely the same guy, but had been in the NWA/WCW 85-97, he'd be in most people's top 10. Who cares that the company had a ton of crap in that period? Bret was brilliant!." Danish Dynamite "Hart carried U.S. wrestling on his shoulders during the dark days of the mid '90s with some of the greatest performances in wrestling history," Moonsault Marvin Recommended Matches: Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (WWF WrestleMania, 3/20/1994) Bret Hart vs Diesel (No Holds Barred, WWF Survivor Series, 11/19/1995) Bret Hart vs Steve Austin (Submission, WWF WresetleMania, 3/23/1997)

Nobody is right so far

Sorry Musgrave.

Winner getting a comp? Can I guess?

Sorry it's not going to happen.

More Chad, please?

Kelly did an hour podcast making Savage's case.

17 folks remain and only two of them did not receive #1 votes.

18 - "Macho Man" Randy Savage 2006 Ranking: 44 Points: 10548 #1 Votes: 4 #2 Votes: 5 #3 Votes: 2 Top 10 Votes: 24 # of Ballots: 138 Average Vote: 26.46 High Vote: 1 (Goodear, Chris Powell, Scott Bernard, & Kelly Nelson) Low Vote: 99 Discussion Thread "Savage is as close to a complete package as any I've ever seen, next to maybe only Flair. He could end up anywhere in my top 5. In the weird mix of storytelling, sport, violence for kids, childishness for adults, blood, sex, fun, aggression, nostalgia and all around awesomeness that is wrestling, Randy Savage is the true total package. The man was pure art! Johnny Sorrow said it best: He's the fucking Macho Man! Oh yeah!" Danish Dynamite Recommended Matches: Randy Savage vs Jerry Lawler (Memphis, 6/3/1985) Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior (WWF WrestleMania, 3/24/1991) Randy Savage vs Diamond Dallas Page (WCW Spring Stampede, 4/17/1997)