Grimmas

What do you mean wave the flag? I'm just saying we should learn from Benoit and use it to help others and prevent future things as much as we can. Screaming murderer means we learn nothing and don't help anyone in the future, so it happens again and again.

Look again. Didn't rate Benoit not do I watch him

Any conclusion drawn that has Angle over Taker has something wrong with it's process.

Herein lies the issue. There's some crap and then there's the amount of crap he's had. I forget.. did you leave Mil Mascaras on your list or not?

Bringing up the fact he is Canadian is so fucking off base. I didn't vote for Benoit. I didn't like him that much when he was living either. "Agreed -- but when your basis for that argument is someone who murdered his wife and child, you lose. Its just that simple." So.. we should not try to help people who are sick so that this doesn't happen again or at least we can prevent it sometimes? I don't get your point.

83 - "Rowdy" Roddy Piper 2006 Ranking: honourable mention (153) Points: 2786 #1 Votes: 0 #2 Votes: 0 #3 Votes: 1 Top 10 Votes: 5 # of Ballots: 67 Average Vote: 59.84 High Vote: 3 (John Steffy) Low Vote: 100 Discussion Thread "Great charismatic wrestler who added a lot of energy and intensity to his matches and who also delivered great promos. One of the best heels of the 1980s." stunning_grover "I like Piper a lot. I think like Michael Hayes he's a guy who's rep as being a bad/poor worker is complete bullshit. He had some matches in the 80's v. Valentine, Bruno, Orndorff and Savage that I really loved. My perception of him went up a ton when I was watching random 80's house shows from the WWF and he was consistently one of the most engaging people on those shows. Not sure if he'll make my list or not but I'll seriously consider him." Dylan Waco Recommended Matches: Roddy Piper vs Buddy Rose (Portland, 9/13/1980) Roddy Piper vs Greg Valentine (Dog Collar, NWA Starrcade, 11/23/1983) Roddy Piper vs Bret Hart (WWF WrestleMania VIII, 4/5/1992)

Your contention that he wasn't a cold blooded killer is being rejected. He is a cold blooded killer. The mental issues talking point is what was being rejected by Dave and Phil. Ok that may be fair. He clearly committed murder, thus is a murderer. What I am trying to relay is, that it is sad he didn't get help before he murdered. It's sad that all of the signs were there and he didn't get proper treatment with drugs, therapy and whatever it needed. Just going "MURDERER" implies to me that people who are mentally ill should not have help and that we should wait till they do something and then lock them up. It stops the conversation and seems to ignore a lot of issues around it. I wish we lived in a world where people being really fucked up in the head would be helped and not just left alone until something terrible happens.

Please explain my point then, because I really don't believe it is.

Yeah, don't want to discuss this anymore, because my points are being lost anyways. For the record I didn't vote for Benoit and don't watch his matches.

84 - The Undertaker 2006 Ranking: honourable mention (132) Points: 2776 #1 Votes: 0 #2 Votes: 0 #3 Votes: 0 Top 10 Votes: 0 # of Ballots: 59 Average Vote: 53.95 High Vote: 14 (Trent Williams) Low Vote: 99 Discussion Thread "A lesser wrestler would have never been able to convey a character like the Undertaker that would have been silly in another's hands." Moonsault Marvin "I wish he'd retired a while ago but it is hard to argue how great he has been and there has been times where he was among my favorites." Dave Musgrave " I think he is far better at things like selling than he's usually given credit for. I remember back in 2010 during the "Vegetative State/Kane stole my powers via urn" thing, and he had a match on SD where he looked off his game, tired and old. People were talking about how he was too old and he should retire already. Then weeks later, he got his powers back in the storyline, had a rematch with this guy and worked out his skin looking like his usual self, and I realised that all of that weak looking stuff we saw...people thought he was legit too old to work, but it was just him selling the shit out of the angle. I loved that and I came away super impressed with his ability to sell even with such a no-selling character. " Jimmy Redman Recommended Matches: The Undertaker vs Bret Hart (WWF One Night Only, 9/20/1997) The Undertaker vs Jeff Hardy (WWE, 7/1/2002) The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (WWE Wrestlemania XXV, 4/5/2009)

Being an abusive shithead is first and foremost a defect of character, not a mental illness. Certainly not of the type that gets one absolved for violent behavior, like schizophrenia. I have a non-psychotic mental illness and I've never abused anyone. There's a tendency these days to say that doing anything highly criminal means you were crazy in some way, which is kind of true--healthy people in healthy circumstances don't typically resort to crime. But doing something that is obviously fucked up in the eyes of peaceful, non-criminal people like you and me is not necessarily the same thing as being psychotic and not culpable. We have NO idea what Benoit had. Between the steroids, obsessive behaviour, concussions, etc... Yes he may had been an abusive asshole, he may had been mentally ill his whole life and never received proper care.The point he commited the murder his brain was so messed up that going around yelling "MURDERER" is an attitude I don't like.It's way more complex than that. If he didn't commit suicide, he should had been in the mental health part of the prison, not in with the main part.

85 - Manami Toyota 2006 Ranking: 29 Points: 2684 #1 Votes: 1 #2 Votes: 0 #3 Votes: 1 Top 10 Votes: 0 # of Ballots: 52 Average Vote: 50.10 High Vote: 1 (The Great Puma) Low Vote: 99 Discussion Thread "A vote that will be seen as controversial by many, especially considering she's one spot ahead of Kong on my list, but in terms of post 2000s work I continue to be relatively impressed by the little of Toyota I've seen, and after seeing Aja as Erica the aura isn't quite the same. For a tiebreaker it made the difference as in the 90s Toyota had so many great performances both in singles and in tags her annoyances were successfully overcome for me. 10 years ago she might have been in my top 10, but just as a wrestler she offers so much I can't deny the Flying Angel her spot. " Dylan Harris Recommended Matches: Manami Toyota vs Toshiyo Yamada (AJW, 12/9/1989) Manami Toyota vs Aja Kong (AJW, 11/20/1994) Manami Toyota vs Yumiko Hotta (AJW, 9/3/1995)

This was truly a lot of fun. Just a great discussion that got me thinking.

He's not... but this person is more fitting, but less funny.

Anonymous was a mistake on my part.

86 - Hiroshi Tanahashi 2006 Ranking: honourable mention (370) Points: 2637 #1 Votes: 0 #2 Votes: 0 #3 Votes: 0 Top 10 Votes: 3 # of Ballots: 51 Average Vote: 49.53 High Vote: 5 (ShittyLittleBoots & Lauren McKell) Low Vote: 98 Discussion Thread "I've been told his inclusion is a clerical error. I like him. Live with it." Dave Musgrave "Tanahashi's long string of high quality matches in the modern style is impressive even if it is not one of my favorite styles." Moonsault Marvin "Incredible "big match" wrestler. Almost never lets you down in a title match or in a big G1 match. He's had a silly amount of MOTYCs since 2007 just churning them out year after year. Only detraction for him (and honestly it's probably been a smart move on his behalf) is that in your regular run of the mill tour shows he generally just does his trademark stuff (especially in tags) and it's rarely anything worth seeing. The live crowd enjoy it though as he's so charismatic. " Alan4L "Maybe the best "big match" wrestler of all time. In the conversation at minimum. His match structure and ability to peak his matches at just the right time are elite level. A big Tanahashi match never runs long or feels like it never ends. When was the last time he had a big title match or main event or major G1 bout that wasn't great? The guy just delivers time after time, like a machine. I can't even think of the last bad big match he's had. He's probably never had one. " W2BTD Recommended Matches: Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuyuki Fujita (NJPW, 6/5/2004) Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Minoru Suzuki (NJPW, 10/8/2012) Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada (NJPW, 1/4/2016)

Pre mediated by someone severely ill yes.Premeditated by a guy who had a long history of abusing his wife to the point that she had gone from threatening divorce (2003) to predicting her own murder. The best you can say about Chris Benoit is that he chose the exact wrong industry for someone with latent violent tendencies and a predilection for poly drug use. That *maybe* all those chairshots and pills turned an average shithead abuser into a freakish family annihilator. Not a lot of cases in the rapidly expanding CTE literature about that. CTE and mental illness are not absolution here and it's logically and ethically misguided to use them as such. I'm not trying to dismiss it. I'm trying to say Benoit had been ill probably his whole life.

Pre mediated by someone severely ill yes.

87 - Cesaro 2006 Ranking: unranked Points: 2603 #1 Votes: 0 #2 Votes: 0 #3 Votes: 0 Top 10 Votes: 0 # of Ballots: 69 Average Vote: 63.28 High Vote: 14 (Mrzfn) Low Vote: 97 Discussion Thread "Does something to amaze me in nearly every match he has." Steven White "So here is the thing with Cesaro. You can certainly make the argument that his indy run, when you consider his overall talents, was underwhelming to some extent. But he was as good of a base for your typical blah indy high flyers could ever hope to work with. Go back to 2006 and watch Claudio take a green as grass "I have the Double Moonsault and nothing else" Ricochet and have some thing really fun with him. The E stretch has just pushed forward what he could do when given the ball (or, in some cases, not given a ball)." El Dragon Recommended Matches: Claudio Castagnoli vs El Generico (ROH, 7/28/2007) Cesaro vs Kofi Kingston (WWE Main Event, 5/1/2013) Cesaro vs William Regal (NXT, 12/25/2013)

Read through the discussion thread, lots of defenders there.

88 - Sami Zayn 2006 Ranking: unranked Points: 2600 #1 Votes: 0 #2 Votes: 0 #3 Votes: 0 Top 10 Votes: 2 # of Ballots: 66 Average Vote: 61.62 High Vote: 8 (Mrzfn) Low Vote: 100 Discussion Thread "One of the all-time great babyface workers. He was super over as El Generico, and really so expressive and able to sell so well under the mask. Laundry list of great indy matches. Great tag worker. Great at indy spotfests as well as traditional face/heel stuff. And is now just as good unmasked as the everyman Zayn." Jimmy Redman "A relic from a bygone era. Amazing babyface whose focus on storytelling is second to none, these days. Has traveled to every corner of the globe, doing what he loves. Bigger things on the horizon." Jon Burr "Had a run of fantastic performances running from at least 2007 until now, and in a variety of environments, in front of a variety of crowds, and performing a variety of styles. On top of all that, before making the change from Generico to Zayn, he became the most sympathetic babyface in wrestling without ever saying a word. I think the physical ability it takes to reach that point without ever cutting a promo would be impressive in ANY era, but when you consider the emphasis on talking out a story rather than wrestling out one over the past 25 years, it's all the more impressive." Shining Wiz Recommended Matches: El Generico vs Daisuke Sekimoto (wXw, 3/13/2011) El Generico vs Dick Togo (PWG, 12/10/2011) Sami Zayn vs Cesaro (NXT, 2/24/2014)

It's went from unwatchable to watchable. Big improvement

It's amazing how much better Raw is without a heel authority and with some talent that hasn't been ruined.

Let's remind everybody that the coverage of Brody's death and all these rumours and talking points come from a friend of Brody. That doesn't mean all that stuff is incorrect, but treating it like a fact is a little unfair.

89 - Atsushi Onita 2006 Ranking: honourable mention (129) Points: 2551 #1 Votes: 0 #2 Votes: 0 #3 Votes: 0 Top 10 Votes: 1 # of Ballots: 65 Average Vote: 61.78 High Vote: 7 Low Vote: 95 Discussion Thread "He created tension by teasing the violence instead of just indulging in it like followers in the style." Moonsault Marvin "The biggest star in FMW. Influential garbage wrestler. He made garbage style matches more interesting than most people working that style. That makes him a great worker, in my opinion." stunning_grover "Onita was definitely one of the most charismatic wrestlers of his generation Japan or anywhere and was smart enough to helped create a style in Japan that they rarely had seen before that in taking the elements of Memphis & WWC to start up FMW. Onita was great at what he did in the ring and when it came to business you can't deny he was a tremendous draw. Onita also became a cult hero to the fans over here and I remember a lot of fans in the mid 90's trying their best to find whatever FMW tapes they could find from whomever they could get it from." Kris Zellner Recommended Matches: Atsushi Onita & Masa Fuchi vs Ricky Morton & Eddie Gilbert (Memphis, 9/4/1981) Atsushi Onita vs Tarzan Goto (FMW, 2/26/1991) Atsushi Onita vs Terry Funk (FMW, 5/5/1993)