WrestlingPower

I didn't have a problem with them shooting the Tully/TA bat angle the night before the Clash. To me it kind of added to the sports presentation of it all, like there was always something going on regardless of its timing. In 1989 they had Funk doing angles on TV with Sting and I think one with Steamboat while he was feuding with Flair. At that time given that everyone seemed to talk about other angles on the show to get over the gravity of them, I didn't find it that unusual. Certainly everyone knew there was still heat with Tully vs. TA & Dusty. Once I got smartened up though it did kind of bug me that they basically booked themselves into screwing over their Crockett Cup tourney lineup like every year it occurred.

Answering some footage questions from above: There are no 1992 handhelds that I'm aware of. The Bluegrass Brawl 94 only had the 2 matches filmed by SMW that I know of. There is a handheld out there of the final show but I only have the last match from that show.

Listening to the reading of Meltzer shooting all over Mania, MAN, do I miss those days! It seems like back in the days where the sheets were more underground, Meltzer, Keller, etc. would pull no punches in skewering a show & very much seemed to lead their followers along and/or parrot the thoughts of a majority of hardcore fans. Unfortunately now I feel that even if they felt the same way they have to be more PC about it. Now all we hear is them trying to explain what the company is thinking, trying to explain the business reasons why things are done a certain way, or trying to tiptoe around the issues to protect their contacts & relations with those involved. This rant is every bit as bad (or worse) than a lot of burials of PPVs & creative done by online fans now but very few have the balls to just come right out & say it anymore. I think I prefer this approach to the apologist approach & I'd kind of forgotten it used to be that way in the formative days of the hardcore fan community.

Really enjoyed the Zero-One discussion. I wouldn't mind hearing an Exile on that promotion. Zero-One had an odd appeal for me too. It always seemed like a very easy watch but at the same time I was never sure why. Maybe it was the variety. It's not like you were ever going to get a bunch of ****+ classic matches or anything. You had a Battlartsy type style for some guys, but doing a more pro style version of it that didn't have the turnoffs for me of a shoot style group. You had your juniors high flying stuff such as the tags that Hidaka & Fujita did with Super Crazy, etc. Those were really fun matches, better versions of the ROH scramble stuff, where it's largely junk food that might be the best, most fun stuff on a show but makes no impression whatsoever in the grand scheme of things. You had your Corino booked indy guys trying to make a career for themselves like when Joe went in the early days and then Spanky had some success there. As mentioned the early days were totally drawing fans due to following Hashimoto's career. Later it was where you'd go to see what Otani & Tanaka were still up to. But overall it just seemed kind of colorless, like you had all these above average or very good workers, but all were somewhat bland doing a style that didn't really have the highs & lows of the other groups. Had a good laugh over the Momoe talk. Maybe I was totally oblivious & naïve to it at the time going to shows & seeing her live, including her retirement show, but I can totally see it in hindsight that could very well have been the way some folks reacted. Our group just saw her as a very entertaining wrestler who had endless energy in doing her fast paced style & fighting back from the punishment. The heat for her comebacks was always like a throwback to the AJW prime years. I am certainly glad I wasn't in tune with the subtexts at the time or I might have second guessed my fandom of her.

There's nothing more carny that purposefully limiting the pub your promotion gets so as to kayfabe your success so you don't get raided. That's one I hadn't heard before.

Re: how much people made There's a cancelled check on Cornette's site from Sept 5, 1993 to Tammy Sytch for $175, which I would presume is for the prior week where they ran 3 shows, the largest of which was Barbourville. So not a typical week of a big show for sure. So no one was getting rich but certainly guys made a living especially babyfaces selling gimmicks.

Re: Debbie Malenko, I need to go back & watch her. I remember based on the limited stuff I saw at the time & the reputation she had among the hardcore community that if she hadn't gotten hurt, she probably would have been a big deal in the late 90s. She was totally out of the business by then when there were 4-5 joshi groups running so she definitely would have fit in.

Fascinating stuff to hear in 2016. I hadn't even thought back on that period in enough detail to grasp that Watts was saying all that stuff to Wade Keller of all people. It's also very interesting to realize that hardcore fan narrative since that point in time has largely overlooked the content of Watts' statements as less important than what he brought to the business. By & large everyone's hatred of Mark Madden started here. He was known as the guy who couldn't mind his own business & in the pursuit of a story or whatever stirred up crap that resulted in Watts being fired. To this day people hate him as a result of that. Bruce Mitchell has been maligned over the years for much the same. It's just very complex that wrestling fans can both be appalled that Watts said that stuff & at the same time are upset that he got ran out of a job that everyone was looking forward to him being able to save their favorite company.

If either of you ends up reading Mark Fleming's book, I'd be curious if he goes into his VWA run while he was working with Thesz. Long story short, VWA booked him in late 80s/early 90s (I forget the year) and ended up putting their title on him. I'm assuming a lot of it was to get Thesz involved. Anyway when it came time for them to get the belt off him, he refused to job. They ended up in court over possession of the physical belt and rather than break kayfabe & admit it was all fake, Fleming ended up keeping possession of the belt. The way I heard it the judge said since he had won it, it was his. Fast forward 20 years or whatever, Fleming worked a few shows around 2008-9 time frame where he was claiming to defend that belt.

I'm curious how it goes. It seems like Jim thinks his MLW show is supposed to be about him ranting about stuff, like people tune in specifically to hear him cut promos on stuff. But at least around here people have much preferred his 6:05 appearances as a breath of fresh air.

Great news that Brian Last will be replacing MSL as co-host. Not that I minded MSL on here.

Seeing that clip for the first time it seems there is more going on there. When reading about what happened I bought into the playful nature of it but seeing it, it seems more deliberate and aggressive. The way O'Neill walks away mad after seems like there's something there too. I also bought into the "it wasn't the right time or place for horseplay" talking point. Well after seeing it, not only that but he stopped the forward progress of the man for no apparent reason, it's not like they were all walking out together & he just randomly decided to horse around, this was akin to an overzealous fan grabbing Kerry Von Erich on his way to the ring. Seems out of place even if this wasn't a special moment to detract from. All that said, 90 days is really harsh for a 3 second incident that may or may not have meant something.

I can see both sides of this. I posted over a month ago about new talent they need to bring in & I completely share the frustration over the whole budget thing and the tryouts vs. bringing in known guys thing. Another thing to factor in is ROH books their stuff out pretty far in advance it seems. I remember seeing comments in the past saying that they can't just bring a guy in on a moment's notice if they have cards booked out for 3 months or whatever. Exceptions were made for guys like Shelley who they thought had a fanbase behind them. I think that ROH management is kind of in a bubble and they only see guys as established if they have been around a good while and been on TV for other groups. If you don't meet that criteria, I think that they see you all the same. If they brought in everyone that people wanted them to they would have overly long, bloated cards like the Gabe era where you had constant meaningless 4-ways etc. As thin as their roster seems already they still seem to run out of stuff to do with guys like Cedric and Ciampa, who got tired of it & left. So I'm not sure what the solution is but you would certainly think that they should have the money to use Fox, Callihan, Hero, etc. instead of bringing in no-names or continuing to use guys like Bruiser. I think Delirious books it like it's NOAH or something where they largely have a set roster, you have to earn your way in, and guys there take YEARS to work their way up. Not sure that necessarily seems progressive in the fastly changing US landscape.

I would on occasion buy The National but it was more to get my "fix" in between Observers. I don't remember there being anything in there that wouldn't be superseded by having the Observers from the time period.

Very interesting talk about Eddie Gilbert's SMW run which you will see refuted some of what we talk/speculate about on the SMW 1995 show. Good work guys, I've always wanted to hear Jimmy talk at length about Gilbert.

I think there's a show segment idea here regarding the whole "travelling fans" idea. You could trace it back to the WFIA stuff in the 70s/80s and up to when Meltzer & crew used to go to PPVs & stuff in the late 80s. I'm kind of curious what happened between say 1989 & 2001 where it seemed hardcores weren't travelling to shows in packs. Was it done under the radar? Theoretically that's the time period where more & more fans were being smartened up & considered "hardcores" so it seems odd that there was a gap. Maybe people were just content to watch from home and something spurred on the idea to have a gathering around a big event?

Love Kris's line "This is WCW, Bix" after Bix asks a logical question.

Not sure why I haven't noticed this before, but why do the announcer categories say "TV Announcer"? Are announcers for promotions that are DVD only supposed to be excluded? I realize that the major promotions with TV get the most coverage but it seems like there's been an undercurrent for years among the Observer universe that lower level promotions aren't important or significant enough to compare against the "big time". I'm not going to take the time to break it down but I've always found it odd which awards are considered Category A vs. B, mainly why is Worst Announcer the only "Worst" award in category A? I recently listened to the podcast coverage of the awards and does it seem like Meltzer doesn't actually vote in his own awards anymore? Years ago he used to write feature articles in December breaking down Wrestler of the Year candidates trying to help himself with the voting. For someone as involved as he is in the HOF discussion it seems odd to me how disconnected he seems toward these awards.

I was kind of hot & cold on Battlarts. Some of the higher end matches I was in love with, I was a big fan of Minoru Tanaka and later the Hidaka/Fujita tag team, and could really appreciate the stiffness of the Ikeda/Ishikawa stuff. But then other times they got too "shooty" for me. Some undercards and whole shows just bored me to tears. Half the time I felt frustrated that they were limiting the level of excitement by eliminating the rope running & stuff. It was just an odd hybrid of styles, like dives were cool but there was no rope running? Some suplexes were used & others weren't. I guess it didn't help that the one Battlarts show I went to live was a massive disappointment. Though I did end up running into Carl Greco in the airport on both the arriving & return flights.

VWA was around during the time when I was just getting smartened up though I did talk to the promoter David Leehy on the phone around this time. While he did have a "wandering eye" so to speak from what I recall I think his marriage broke up after VWA was done and I never heard of him "running off" with anyone. In fact as of a couple years ago he was still working the same factory job as he had in the early 90s. I don't recall the specifics around why VWA shut down other than the usual money/stress issues of running a promotion. I attemped to contact David via Facebook a few years ago & never heard back. I was trying to get a hold of some of the Stan Lane/Jeff Collett as VA Midnight Express stuff. He would probably be late 50s by now & would have grown kids. Looks like he does Civil War reenactments based on his FB pics. Jeff Collett was one of the few VWA guys who got out & made a semi-name in the area as I think he worked in the dying days of SAPW. He had Bells Palsy or something in recent years but did return to the ring & made a few appearances 3-5 years ago. Johnny Ringo's widow recently set up a VWA page on Facebook.

Hilarious show

http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/story.html?id=10775418

I saw the report on the surgery. I'm continuing to pray for you, Adam.

I'd be curious to see someone delve into NAWA/SAPW history too. I share Brian's curiosity over which markets they had regular TV and for how long. The were on in Richmond, VA for about 6 weeks, soon after they started, ran one show that bombed, and then were off TV 2 weeks later. I can't imagine what they would have been paying as they had a noon Saturday timeslot on the NBC affiliate (#1 in market) which ran it opposite NWA Pro on CBS.