soup23

New option: Higher BIGLAV Score.

After doing our podcast and talking about this a good bit with Parv, Im leaning towards no for Dylan voting for Jumbo. I think in many ways, this final list will be representative of the voter as the workers that it is presented and I think an accurate portrayal of Dylan having a self admitted block and repulsion to Jumbo is more representative of that viewpoint.

Probably my favorite WTBBP moment besides the Arn vs. Windham fiasco

PTBN link is added to the first post.

I told Parv that I pictured unicorns dancing around while listening to it.

Really cool moment in time show. I thought it was poignant that Bix said this was the last time most of us were watching "all of the promotions in Japan." That really resonated with me as a kernel of truth and someone that was hooked on NOAH, ROH and IWA-MS at the time. I remember lurking on DVDVR and hearing about the T2P guys and seeing the U Style stuff and just wondering when my lowly college budget was going to fit buying tapes from a Pennsylvania tape dealer.

I will throw a vote Mitch Ryder's way. Great old school type heel that had some really great 10 minute brawls with Mark Wolf and also was a breath of fresh air in Chikara.

BTW my consistency for the big guys would be: Kobashi (9) Hansen (8) Misawa (7-8) Jumbo (7) Kawada (6) - I feel he is pretty inconsistent and has wider swings than Misawa. His stuff in the Jumbo/Taue tags is where he could zone out more than Misawa does in most major tags. He also has the singles stuff which I find more disappointing ( worse vs. Hase, I am not crazy about his selling in the Hashimoto match, etc)

Curious as to which ones this is besides the Hansen series. I cant recall who on the WDKW said they havent liked any Hansen vs. Misawa matches. I do think that series is disappointing besides the 5/93 match which I find great. Besides that, it is tough for me to turn to many disappointing singles matches from Misawa besides Hase, Tenryu and 6/6/97. Also, in the case of Tenryu and Hansen, those should be just as much a negative in my eyes as it is for Misawa.

In regards to the tone issue, I can say that i felt "better" overall about my top 100 matches list than my GWE list when all was said and done. I think most of that is a personal hump that is very difficult to get over. I really struggle ranking workers overall and my list of 180 guys that was wittled down to 100 was full of people that I regretted not putting on my list. It was tough for me to decide whether El Samuari at 99 really deserved to be there in my eyes over someone like Butch Reed. There was certainly casualties in the Match list but having a set cut off point of not ranking anything I had watched pre 2011 was helpful in me instituting an artificial restraint on ranking stuff. It did leave off things like the 84 NJ Gauntlet which I watched in I guess 2010 and loved (watched this three nights ago again to get a gauge on some guys and man what an awesome match), but it helped in me setting a straight barrier. I didn't rank Buddy Rose and I feel I have seen a real good amount of Buddy. In some ways I liken it to how you used to talk about ranking lucha for the WON HOF Dylan. Overall, I do think this project was a success in whole and I hope that is conveyed by the podcast, but I also wanted to give an accurate portrayal that for myself, it was a failure in a lot of ways where I got uncharacteristically really angry over Parv giving someone too low a BIGLAV and other stuff that I'm usually to just pan off in general discussion of wrestling. Perhaps that is due to the definiteness of the list as there is certain things where you can look back at the 2006 and be perplexed at the overall ratings of certain workers. I think that presents a moment in time narrative that I am striving to see more as a positive instead of a negative. I have really enjoyed seeing some younger voices like Sammy, Case, Tanner, etc. jumping in and giving their thoughts even when I disagree overall with their conclusions. Consistency was discussed a lot during the pod and it became clear as we were talking that it matters a whole lot to me as well. I am pretty punishing of workers who are inconsistent during their peak as a performer. I don't think I have an official cutoff date but Andre being lazy vs. Studd is much more of a negative in my eyes than Funk having a disorganized performance in 1998 or Flair doing his by the numbers routine around the same time. Even in my top 20, consistency hurts some workers from being around their contemporaries. I don't think Kawada is as consistent as Misawa and Kobashi for example so you will see them placed higher. As encompassing as this project is, there is an emphasis with most of us to rank based on what you have really watched and dived into to a degree. I think BIGLAV actually is one of the systems that is pretty objective in regards to this as Parv ended up rating tons of workers he doesn't enjoy. For me, the last 5-7 years have been littered with 80's projects and yearbooks so that is a huge representation of the list. There will be some outliers like the indy guys and Destroyer but my list as a whole really reads as who I have been digging in the sets I have participated in. Also me going through the IWA stuff is why I threw a bone Ian's way at #100. I hope you do submit a list Chief.

Wrestling match hall of fame? Also something I could get behind and think it would require less binge watching overall.

As I mentioned on the latest WTBBP, this project kind of felt like a personal failure to me because I set my watching ambitions too high. As a result, I'm hopeful to spend a little bit of time in the aftermath to just watch wrestling on a whim and not to "scout" how someone should be ranked. I foresee that being my focus until the summer months and then I should be revitalized and can dive into a project with focus (hopefully the Portland or NWA 80's stuff)

He gives you the cliffnotes Pete.

I feel the yearbooks help out with Waltman in that way. 1990 US wrestling was littered with some weird stuff that at its best, it felt like a victory lap for the relics of the 1980's. That still created some amazing matches in Flair vs. Luger and RNR vs. MX but when you look at what Waltman and Lynn were doing, it really feels like a vision of what 1990's wrestling could and in many ways DID become. Watching that in context is huge instead of just seeing their three matches at ***1/2, ****, and ****1/4 stars.

May just be a matter of tastes as with the Kawada/Misawa tags vs. Jumbo/Taue I have preferred Misawa for most of those as evidenced in my burning question reviews. Agree with you and Parv that Misawa typically does hide out in tags with Akiyama and Kobashi. To me that adds to his case more but I certainly can see it as a negative as well. Overall this was a fun podcast to listen to and a lot of guys were covered. Watching IWA-MS in US HIstory class is also hilarious and actually sounds appropriate to me.

Comparing Bock vs. Flair 80's as their two respective peaks seems fair. I know for me that makes it a pretty easy choice and this is someone that enjoyed Bock greatly during the AWA set.

Would be interested if Tanner and Case have watched the July 1994 Williams match lately. I though Misawa was grand in that match. I can see Misawa hiding in tags as a critique that is worthy of throwing on Misawa but saying hes never the best guy in a match is a pretty extreme statement to make.

I thought the ROH PPV review was really well done. I want Parv to see the Progress match with the guy wrestling bare ass for most of the match.

1. Stan Hansen 2. Terry Funk 3. Ric Flair 4. Genechiro Tenryu 5. Toshiaki Kawada 6. Daniel Bryan 7. Shiyna Hashimoto 8. Rey Mysterio Jr. 9. Jumbo Tsuruta 10. Jerry Lawler 70. Ted Dibiase

This Saturday's card in Philly looks pretty damn great to me. ROH WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP MATT SYDAL VS. JAY LETHAL © ADAM COLE & RODERICK STRONG VS. REDRAGON (BOBBY FISH & KYLE O'REILLY) IWGP JUNIOR HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP KUSHIDA © vs ACH SIX MAN TAG TEAM MATCH JAY & MARK BRISCOE/CHEESEBURGER VS. WAR MACHINE (RAY ROWE & HANSON)/MOOSE W/ STOKELY HATHAWAY TRIPLE THREAT TAG TEAM MATCH YOUNG BUCKS (NICK & MATT JACKSON) VS. THE ADDICTION (CHRISTOPHER DANIELS & FRANKIE KAZARIAN) VS. MACHINE GUNS (ALEX SHELLEY & CHRIS SABIN) WOH SIX WOMAN TAG TEAM MATCH MANDY LEON, SUMIE SAKAI & JENNY ROSE VS. KYOKO KIMURA, VEDA SCOTT & TAELER HENDRIX BJ WHITMER/CEDRIC ALEXANDER W/ VEDA SCOTT VS. VS. ADAM PAGE/JONATHAN GRESHAM JOEY DADDIEGO VS. WILL FERRARA

Couple of nitpicks. Steiner's +3 seems generous (All Japan?, Indies?) what evidence supports this. Wont matter in long run but I would certainly give Fuyuki a +1 in ability to work brawls, +1 to get over in multiple markets ( AJ, WAR, FMW).

Generous score for Dean there Parv. Great matches as a 4 strikes me as odd where most of the "good" tv matches wouldn't rank as I don't think a lot of them reach the 3.5 star rating threshold. It may seem like I am beating a dead horse but I fail to see how Dean gets +1 for working as a babyface and someone like Misawa doesn't. What gimmick matches did Dean excel in? I also don't understand the peak because 1991-1994 is a pretty big wasteland of Dean footage so just giving him those three years by fiat seems odd. The stuff on the yearbook from 1990 wasn't all that impressive. I think my issue with Dean is that something praised like the Dean vs. Scotty Too Hotty match from Backlash is a good match and nothing more. It was so odd to see a 10+ cruiser match on WWE PPV at the time that it got way overstated and still gets remembered and called upon as a reminder when Dean gets brought up. I would wager that almost every ROH house show this past year had a match just as good as that one.

I knew Parv's boy Rotundo would rake it up in the "A" rating.

Dennis of the week is funniest I have laughed at a pod in a while.