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That Pain vs. Soul Taker match was tremendous to watch.

Burning Day 2 Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada 7/2/89 This may again be where bias comes in as there could be a multitude of crappy Tiger Mask matches but just in an example of young Misawa vs. young Kobashi in a flashy style match, La Fiera vs. Tiger Mask smoked this by a healthy margin. This match originally focused around the leg work but there was a clear split where the match changed and went to a finishing stretch featuring high impact moves. The transition didn’t feel organic at all and this remains a match that is mainly only worth watching for novelty purposes. **1/2 Kenta Kobashi/Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Stan Hansen/Genechiro Tenryu 7/15/89 This match blew me away on the All Japan set and it was my #2 as a result of that. The opening is a beautifully, chaotic mess. 6/5/89 is still fresh and Jumbo and Tenryu hate each other as much as ever. It was impossible to predict it at the time, but this is a fine chapter one in the legendary Kobashi vs. Hansen feud that would become. Tenryu and Kobashi find themselves in the ring together and Kobashi hangs for a while before his inexperience gets the best of him. The result is a pretty severe mauling from Hansen and Tenryu with the molten Korakuen crowd cheering him on. Tenryu knocks Jumbo off the apron and Jumbo gives a king sized “did this dude just fucking do that” look. Jumbo gets tagged in and reeks havoc until the match breaks down again with Hansen just inserting himself. I really don’t know who is the standout here as this is four guys proving why they are four of the top ten guys to ever lace the boots. Hansen goes sprawling on the outside and slows things down with a gritty headlock and a a knee right to the face. Tenryu and Hansen have some great double team moves they execute on Kobashi. Kobashi does a great spot where he hits a back splash on Hansen for a quick nearfall and then as quickly as possible, he tags in Jumbo. I like that Jumbo just didn’t take over as Tenryu and Hansen are working magnificently as a team. They take over on Jumbo too. Jumbo being the ace he is, boots Tenryu right in the face and then has to limp around from hitting him so hard. Tenryu and Jumbo are treated on such equal footing throughout this match that it is a treat to watch. Kobashi locks on a half crab and Hansen doesn’t stand for that. He kicks Kobashi right in the face and then Tenryu gives him some dickish strikes. Not having enough, Hansen joins in on the fun. Holy shit does Tenryu almost decapitate him with a lariat in the corner. The crowd outbreaks in Kobashi chants and big brother Jumbo finally comes in to stop this horseshit of people coming as they please. They are telling a great story of Jumbo letting Kobashi handle himself to the absolute breaking point. I also like the story of Kobashi having to be bailed out from Jumbo to a degree when he tags out. Hansen’s arm starts to get worked over but he is able to tag out while in a Kobashi submission. Tenryu comes in but this time Kobashi fires back and dropkicks him to the elation of the crowd. Jumbo even scales the ropes to give his “OH” stance as he looks so proud of what Kobashi has just done. Kobashi works over Tenryu with some headlocks and a twisty submission that I can’t even begin to describe. Kobashi strikes Tenryu in the corner gaining confidence, this pisses Tenryu right off as he fires back. Has Kobashi bitten off more than he can chew? Kobashi wisely tags out to Jumbo. Jumbo locks on his trusty abdominal stretch. Kobashi is ready to come back in and he hits a clunky suplex dumping Stan on his head. Stan is able to avoid a running dropkick in the corner and wants to dish out some punishment as Kobashi rushes to tag out. Now we get the big showdown with Tenryu and Jumbo and the slap Tenryu gives Jumbo has to be seen to be believed. Hansen comes in to a chorus of boos and that draws Kobashi in. Jumbo eats a Hansen lariat and in an act of desperation he has to tag Kobashi. Kobashi hits a missile dropkick and fisherman suplex and the crowd is itching for an upset. Tenryu shows his dominance after that barrage by striking Kobashi’s momentum down. A powerbomb is able to put him away and gain the victory for Hansen and Tenryu. There is very few matches where a boy becomes a man in a match, Kobashi did that here. The crowd breaks out in a huge Kobashi chant as the power in All Japan seems to be shifting more and more to Tenryu’s side at this time. I love this match so much. This is the best performance either Kobashi or Misawa had in the 1980’s. ****3/4 Kabuki/Kobashi vs. Yatsu/Jumbo Tsuruta 9/15/89 I have never seen this one before. Kobashi and Yatsu start out and Kobashi is as fiery as ever. Watching Kabuki in WCCW in 1983, it is still refreshing to see him have some sort of urgency here. Kobashi doesn’t look quite as crisp here with some weak kicks and a dropkick that doesn’t get great contact. Jumbo gets tagged in for the first time and he wastes no time dishing out some punishment to Kenta. Grumpy Jumbo is certainly trickling in. After a Kabuki/Jumbo sequence that didn’t set the world on fire, Kenta comes back in with a lot of energy and taking the beating to Jumbo. Yatsu really dishes out a ton of punishment to Kobashi now with a piledriver and variety of strikes. Jumbo joins in on the fun. Kobashi is really good at tagging out at the earliest opportunity. One critique here is that Kobashi gets tagged in and hits a dive on Jumbo almost immediately after he tagged out. He does retreat right to the apron but that felt pretty odd. Kobashi becomes the whipping boy when he tags in proper. Yatsu and Jumbo hit a double suplex. Yatsu does a bulldog and he is actually the one that looks the best so far in this match. Butterfly suplex is the next offensive move to be dispatched by Yatsu. Kenta hits a back suplex as a desperation attempt and decides not to tag out. Big mistake as Yatsu takes right over. Kobashi comes back in a strike exchange with Jumbo. Again his execution is off a bit with his spinning back kick that Jumbo shrugs off essentially like it was a botch. Yatsu delivers a powerslam and spinning toe hold variation. Kabuki breaks up that submission attempt. Kobashi has worked a whole lot of this match. Jumbo hits a piledriver but is unable to put Kenta away. Kobashi fires back with a splash and cradle attempt before tagging out to Kabuki. Kabuki and Jumbo have a good strike exchange with each other. Ditto for Kabuki/Yatsu. Kobashi hits a missile dropkick perfectly to Yatsu and a suplex earns another two count. The fisherman suplex seems to be the optimum spot at this stage for Kobashi to get a nearfall as he hits it on Jumbo here. Jumbo is able to shrug that off and beat Kobashi with a back suplex. This was a good match but the execution from Kobashi was off in spots and he was asked to really carry the lion’s work for his team. I honestly think it may have been a bit too ambitious for him at this point in his career. This was left off the All Japan set and that feels justified with how loaded that set was in the end. *** Can-Am Express vs. Kenta Kobashi/Joe Malenko 10/11/89 Kobashi has a snazzy jacket now. Krofatt starts out all pissed off with Malenko. They have a really aggressive sequence. Things go down a bit when Kobashi locks on a headlock. Furnas does an impressive power press slam and then runs right into a nasty boot from Kobashi. They do a reverse tombstone spot that Kobashi eats and the pace is pretty relentless so far. Malenko starts torqueing over Furnas’ leg. Krofatt spits at Kobashi to add some hate to that feud. Krofatt gets pushed to the outside and in a great spot, Kobashi chases after him for Krofatt to hurriedly retreat back in. Kobashi gets tagged in and we get a loud chant chanting his name. They have a mirror spot that results in a stand still. Furnas comes in and hits his beautiful dropkick on Kobashi. The wrestling and jockeying for position has been really impressive in this sequence. It looks intense and also has a sense of bravado and machismo sliding through. Each person is convinced they are the best and they are willing to prove that point. Krofatt snaps over a devilish spinning heel kick against Kobashi to keep that feud alive. The Malenko portions of the match are more pure from a matwork perspective but they provide fluid, exciting work that is full of motion and reversals. Kobashi dropkicks Furnas to the outside and does a big dive to the outside and the match shifts again. Krofatt attacks Kobashi on the outside and DDT’s him onto the floor. We see some good staggered selling from Kenta here as Joe and the crowd encourages him back inside. Can-Am’s start to really work over Kenta with double team moves and kicks. Kenta does a sweeping leg kick that is a great revenge spot to the ones they have dished his way throughout the whole match. Another missile dropkick from the top and it appears Kenta is letting his anger get the best of him here by not tagging out. After surviving another barrage, Kenta does tag out. Furnas has Joe in his back submission until Kenta executes a German suplex. It feels kind of odd that Joe is in there for the climax of the match as this match has felt mainly like a Kenta vs. Can Am affair. Kenta gives another stiff boot to Furnas and Furnas dropkicks Joe in a powerbomb position from Krofatt. Krofatt rolls through that and the Can-Ams win this exciting match. I do have the complaint about the finishing run, but this was a really exciting and well executed match. **** So today proved that Kenta could absolutely have some awesome performances and get the crowd behind him from the get go. When in a singles effort or carrying the lion’s share of a tag match, he does still need to edit himself a bit and work on his execution at points.

I have decided to form the S. H. I. T. system for all my ratings going forward. S. Style- how well does your wardrobe match your gimmick? H. Hotness - How desirable are you in my eyes I. Integrity - Only Kurt Angle ranks here T. Tattoos - selling Real permanent pain > fake pain

The Burning Question Day 1: Early Misawa Tiger Mask II vs. La Fiera 8/26/1984 This is a cool chance to see young Misawa work with a Mexican worker with a good pedigree in Fiera. Fiera will also place in my GWE poling. This was likely the first time I had ever taken notice of him when I watched this match for the DVDVR All Japan Best of the 1980’s set. This match finished 66th out of 150 on that set. Fiera’s hair is a wild, glorious mess. Tiger Mask kicks away to start and the crowd chants Misawa. Not much of a secret who is under the hood then. Fiera responds with some wickedly cool and unique armdrags that Misawa doesn’t bump awkwardly for. Fiera and TM do a coordinated sequence next that looked really nice with both displaying excellent agility. Misawa flips out of a monkey flip perfectly. Fiera makes the match more chippy with a cheap kick and the intensity picks up. Fiera takes a huge monkey flip bump and a great bump to the outside on a good looking dropkick from TM. All of Misawa’s high flying is on display here as he scales the ropes and does a moonsault landing on his feet. Fiera is reeling and Misawa peppers him with punches and kicks. A heaping load of action has resulted in the five minutes this match has occurred. Fiera is able to push Misawa to the outside and he follows it up with a huge crossbody to the floor. Both guys are looking great so far and the flash they are trying to display is coming across in spades. Back inside, Fiera hits a tombstone and scales to the top. A frog splash results which is some poetic justice from the Misawa arsenal of offense. Misawa gains the advantage and Fiera takes another huge bump this time to the floor. Misawa follows suit with a great front plancha to the floor without touching the ropes. A front flip plancha from Fiera misses and Misawa does a running senton for a nearfall. The first less than perfect executed moves results when Misawa hits a back dive from the top rope. He still was able to get a lot of contact. A really nice tiger suplex gives Tiger Mask the duke at just under nine minutes. That match was exhausting for the amount of time it took place. This was a great showcase for both guys and I can see how it placed favorably in the DVDVR poll for its refreshing pace even though the match is brief in length. ***1/2 Tiger Mask II vs. Kuniaki Kobayashi 6/21/1985 These two had a big feud and this match is most well known as winning the 1985 WON Match of the Year. It also finished 128th on the previously mentioned DVDVR poll which is not an impressive showing. The action starts frantically with Kobayashi gaining the early advantage and sending TM to the outside and the guardrail. TM is able to gain his composure and hit an impressive dropkick and elbow drop. The match slows down here and features more mat work than the previous match we looked at. Misawa does a running front flip where he lands on his feet that looks really nifty and amazing given the girth he would have in his later years. Kobayashi takes over and locks on an armbar, headscissors combination. Misawa then gives one of the weirdest lariats where he essentially does a full flip after delivering it. The impact did not look very good at all on Kobayashi. After some more jockeying for position, Kobayashi is sent to the outside. Kobayashi regroups and this a tombstone. The pace quickens now with Kobayashi narrowly missing a lariat and TM scoring with a front flip from the top rope. Just as it looks like TM has things well in hand, Kuniaki comes back. They jockey on the floor and TM is the one that is able to capitalize on a big dive with his beautiful front senton. Sending Kuniaki inside, TM hits a missile dropkick and a really close nearfall. Kuniaki was able to reverse a fisherman suplex attempt and gain one of his own to gain the win. This is a good match with a really good finishing stretch, but it also didn’t have nearly the energy of the previous match. 1985 provided a ton of classic matches that are worthy of being the match of the year, this probably isn’t in the top 100. *** Tiger Mask II vs. Jumbo Tsuruta 3/9/1988 This is the first big singles match between these legends. Jumbo and Misawa were teaming up frequently around this time. This match finished a robust 25th in the DVDVR poll. Misawa has also added a lot of mass in the three years we have seen him. The opening stanza here takes a more traditional heavyweight approach with Misawa working over a headlock and Jumbo becoming increasingly more frustrated at his young protégé. This is a really great match worked around a simple strategy from Misawa to start out. He keeps going back to the headlock and is able to utilize it with great efficiency. The rest plays out as a great underdog getting some hope here and there but the hierarchy is clearly established that Misawa 99.9% isn’t going over here. He does just enough and shows just enough fire but there is a refreshing restraint in the finishing sequence as the match ends precisely on the right nearfall. That is what makes other matches like 6/8/90 so refreshing as a finish as they represent that .01% I talked about earlier. This is probably Miswa’s strongest match/performance of the 1980’s. **** Tiger Mask II/ Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genechiro Tenryu/Ricky Fuyuki 1/14/90 I didn’t remember a lot of this from the 90 yearbook but it was a blast now. I don’t know if I was suffering from AJ fatique watching this so closely in the wake of the 80’s set but this featured Misawa playing a great FIP role and Tenryu being a complete animal trying to destroy him. Misawa is able to go blow for blow for a bit, but then he is sent to the outside and faces a barrage of attack including hurling chairs and mask ripping. Big brother Jumbo is appaled at the carnage. One nuiance that was done by Misawa that was well done was pounding the mat as he gets an opening and him realizing he has to tag out to Jumbo right this moment. The finish here is sublime as Jumbo has Fuyuki locked in a crab only to receive a ferocious clothesline from Tenryu. That makes Jumbo fall backward but he still has the submission locked on earning a quick tap from Fuyuki and giving his team the win. This was a really good tag match with all four guys bringing something different to the table. ***1/2 Misawa was strong here. Of course this is cherry picking for eight years but he does show some range from the flashy performance vs. Fiera to the underdog role vs. Jumbo and finally as a FIP getting his ass beat vs. Tenryu. I think if this is the worst period Misawa has to offer, it is deserving of him to be considered for the top of a GWE list.

I came into this project fully expecting Misawa to be my #1 when all was said and done. I think it is so understated how well he anchored a promotion and had some of the greatest matches of all time. While Misawa is in contention, I have been considering Kobashi for the top spot more and more. A few years ago when Kobashi retired and Meltzer said he was the GOAT, I sort of scoffed and thought that was typical of someone that really favors action and excess. However, in watching the yearbooks, Kobashi really does go to the extremes of excess but I feel he doesn't cross that line very much. 10/31/98 is an example of him and Misawa skirting up to that line but not ever crossing it IMO. 6/11/99 does give way to excess but Misawa is as much to blame and I still do think the match is great. 3/1/03 has some insane spots but that is a seminal match and a true pass torching match that really feels true to the epic scope it deserved. In those situations, I actually reward excess because they came in a moment of emphasis to make a match memorable when it should be. It is possible that I will hate the late NOAH stuff but when I watched the 2004 stuff 4 years ago, Kobashi had two of my top three matches there and I also really dug the Taue defense. Misawa is not prone to having stinkers too as the 6/6/97 match with Kawada is evidence of. The only thing I could determine to do was to compare the two head to head and see who comes out on top. I hope to do that throughout that post and then have my choice for the Greatest Wrestler Ever.

Agreed, Political Hit has become as much a part of my wrestling lexicon as Montreal now.

Heard sensible theories from both sides of this argument and now feels like the pivotal point in choosing a side and seeing where the trajectory of Reigns plays out.

Thanks Bucky, that should be removed now.

I would say I am around 10-15 a week and I feel comfortable in that I watch more on average than Parv.

That is nuts TImothy.

I think it breaks Skype. Sorry about the technical issues in the last 15-20 minutes but the passion is certainly there.

http://placetobenation.com/ptbn-reaction-show-fastlane-2016/ Will, Pete and Johnny Sorrow (Titans of Wrestling, This Week in Wrestling), Kris Zellner (Exile on BadStreet, Between the Sheets), Dylan Hales (Wrestling Culture) are here to discuss the 2016 edition of WWE Fastlane. What did the panel think of the booking of the main event? How excited are they heading into WrestleMania. Is AJ Styles being treated well in WWE so far? Is Bray Wyatt vs. Brock Lesnar a thing of the past? All of these questions and more are answered in the latest reaction show extravaganza.

I think if you are giving Tenryu SWS , you for sure should give someone like Ricky Morton SMW.

The criteria of this that I have the biggest problem with is the +3 you give Hansen for being able to work different markets. That feels like an arbitrary bump for him that someone like Misawa wouldn't have the chance to gain. That being said, is it more impressive that Hansen had success in a multitude of eras or that Misawa was able to stay on top for a decade in a hot promotion? In addition, I don't think Misawa leading the annex of wrestlers of NOAH should be downplayed. Tenryu rocked out of AJ in 1990 to do SWS and brought talent with him. SWS never really took off. Misawa was the first since Inoki and Baba to be able to build an evergreen promotion based on an exodus. All that being said, I don't scoff at anyone that has Hansen above Misawa as they are top 10 shoe-ins for me. I just think that +3 is a big difference maker and a wild swing in the nitty gritty of the top guys.

I think Misawa peak at 04 is fine. He does have the year long run of GHC in 2007 but that was when the business was really starting to decline for NOAH and if you look at the opponents in those defenses, they don't inspire much consideration. Misawa was essentially on top to ride the ship until the figured out who they were going to try next.

Still think you are short changing Misawa a point with not including the Marifuji/KENTA match from 4/25/04.

What was the basis in that method of the dropoff in the amount of variance between spots, for instance 3-4 is 5 point variance but 4-5 is 3 point variance?

Rewatched the Misawa 1/2000 match today. It is quite the odd match. The opening is worked in a real classical New Japan sort of way from the 1980's and 1990's. Misawa takes it to the mat at first to prove he can do that, Hase does the same with a strike exchange but those are the only two bits of contested action in the first fifteen minutes. The rest of the time results around Hase working the arm of Misawa. I have to say that I never tired of watching this due to Hase mixing things up. Misawa isn't someone that I think of as a great facial seller but he did well here. I can see this extended sequence testing the patience limits of many but it felt so unique that I remained invested. MIsawa doesn't look as much hurt as frustrated. Hase has a distinct game plan and refuses to betray it up until the last few minutes of the match where he deserts it to start throwing bombs. Misawa using the elbow can be seen as no selling the work that was invested into it and that is a valid criticism but I do usually give Misawa a pass on those things based on the character work he had built up over the ten previous years. Misawa is the sheriff in town and he will rely on what got him in charge in the first place until it betrays him. I also thought that Hase mainly performing stretches and more submission based work on the arm made it plausible that Misawa could still use it to effectiveness in the latter stages of the match. Hase put his all into this game plan and it didn't work out in the end. I didn't think this was a classic by any means, but it felt more refreshing and purposeful than the Hase vs. Kawada match from the 99 Dome show.

Yes and no for me. I still think he is the main detraction in that Superbrawl match from making it be at the level of the Clash 17 tag. He has some good tv stuff around this time, but I also think it pales to many other people and his top end stuff with great talent doesn't ever reach the high level I would like. That is what is tricky for me with Austin as going through the yearbooks, he just has years where there isn't a lot to point to. 1998 has the Foley stuff and a bunch of stuff in ring I don't care for that much. 1999 is more of the same except the Rock series. Even 1996, the Savio and Mero matches were good but when it comes down to pin pointing a star rating on some of those matches, I look at something like Dean Ambrose's 2015 PPV output and think it easily equates the in ring quality of the stuff Austin outputted in 1996 with the exception of the Bret Survivor Series match. I don't know where Austin will end up on my ballot or if he will at all, but I feel pretty confident at this point that top 80 is his max position wise with me.

I am having a lot of trouble with Fujinami. On a couple of my rankings post, I had him in the 20-30 range. Then I read his thread and the argument of the super high rankings and I don't really disagree with many of the arguments laid out there except that he was still really great in the 90's and I feel I am a bit lower on his series with choshu as most. As a result, when I start looking at individuals around him ranking wise, it gets difficult for me to push him up much. I also am having a tough time with my top 10 as it drives most of my thought process. Guys shift in and out fairly frequently and I don't think there is a huge gap at all between my #5 guy (top 4 is set in stone at this point) and my #15.

Do you think Rude got legit heat with this though. I think of Rude doing his routine and picture women laughing and smiling at him and some overdramatic thumbs down from the crowd. It is not nearly as genuine as some of the legit heat we get from Vickie Guerrero 3-4 years ago.

Can't see much of a case at all. Watching all of the WCCW on the network and sprinkling in the DVDVR 80's matches to fill gaps, David has been my least favorite of the three Von Erich boys and even pales in comparison to someone like Jimmy Garvin in 1983 WCCW.

The first Mystery Titans match vs. Studd is a good watch. That was a match that was the biggest match on that show and both guys give one of the laziest performances I have ever seen. Studd isn't a good worker but his stuff in the AWA set proved that when motivated, he could be led to something decent. I don't rank matches lower than a DUD and this match with Andre is a DUD. I haven't personally seen a Hogan match on top with less energy and I would even take Warrior beating guys in 90 seconds over what they laid out. Andre is perplexing for me to rank as he universally has some amazing matches that are some of my personal favorites. However, it did seem like a big talking point that we were missing Andre's physical peak and that could have happened in the early 70's but he was still pretty limber in the Titans run of WWWF stuff and it has been almost universally disappointing when I have been watching in correlation to the guys. I really wish some of his Mid-Atlantic stuff from the early 80's would have survived as that would have been a great point of comparison on his effort level.

Doesn't effect me in any way because I wasn't voting on potential, but it does strike me in a finality way that I can look back on his fifteen year career now comparatively to his contemporaries like AJ and Hero who hypothetically have more to give int he wrestling arena.

For my perspective and the bubble I encounter I would say either WM 22 (ROH, IWA-MS running plus the crowd reactions in the main event) or WM 24 (first year Observer went and seemed to have more people travelling due to Flair retiring).