Johnny P

Um....me, and anyone else who respects lucha but isn't the biggest fan of it, or some of the patterns I've seen in 2/3 falls matches CMLL has promoted over the years. Hey, its all tastes and what people like and don't, and I respect that, but I for one am encouraged by the chance to see some of these performers outsider of their usual denizens. I've really taken a liking to Cavernario the last two weeks, so him alone would be cool to see here. I'm never going to be a massive lucha fan in practice, but I love a lot of the ideology and I'm going to try and check out the show in the next few days.

Glad to hear they'll be some people awake tonight so I don't feel like I'm watching this "in a bubble," so to speak. Attempting to get Dylan to join me (which he seems to want to do so this should happen). Shoe, I'll be looking for you on Twitter. Might just have to download the app to my phone. NOT a big Twitter guy at all, but the laptop is going to be full screen and HDMI-cabled into the TV. I'm @bwcfilm. I'll do my best to join the conversation

Very much excited for this... AND they have an archive that already has your Snowman article. Too cool.

I donated and grabbed it too. Really appreciate the hard work and the thought, and in general just wanted to do things I'd like to see done now that the online comminity is big enough and tech allows. Thanks to all of you. P.S. - for those that don't have Kindles and E-Readers, like me, I donated/downloaded/searched/transfer from Epub file to PDF in under 3 minutes. Don't let the lack of a reader deter you. Lots of options. Support this, guys, its a hell of a resource and keepsake.

Please post a link or PM me. I knew this was coming and STILL wasn't home in time to download. Fuck!

Mike Johnson has a recap of sorts on PWInsider.com

I've talked about this stuff with Will and Johnny a bunch (may even be on the Wrestling Across America - Philadelphia pod the three of us did with Blue Meanie, which is a great listen for all the stories everyone tells. Real personal question for me as a fan, or maybe better said I hold early ROH close because I lived it maybe even more than ECW, honestly. I was at the very first show at the Murphy Rec, and all but one show in Philly that first year. I was at the first anniversary in Queens, half drunk w/ my buddy Stevie, convinced for a short time the "riot" was real, and pissed at what I thought were asshole fans for it (some of those workers - Smokes in particular - that portrayed the friends of Homicide, would go to the Philly shows, stand behind the seats in the standing room area, and yell shit during matches LIKE fans in the months leading up to it, which led to me thinking they WERE overly emotionally involved fans, especially when you don't have commentary to inadvertently make it obvious). Got to sit front row for Muta - I think the first Nat. Guard Armory show. I was at that same amazing tent show where we thought ROH was going under, and that show was amazing to be at. Got to take a classically trained dancer from the art school I once attended to Joe vs Kobashi (one of my favorite stories to tell, as she only did it because she and I had a thing, and she ended up loving it for the choreography, and wanted to choreograph a match herself because she saw it as a parallel to stories dance tried to tell). Even got to be there live for both the 100th show (CZW vs ROH) and the COD blow off. Saw Misawa in Philly and in NYC the next night with friends. Flew to Orlando for that year's Mania shows in 2008, and flew back on the red eye to Philly early Sunday morning with Sapolsky and Delirious (which is hilarious in hindsight). Was there for the first HD Net taping, and the NYC farewell to Danielson and Nigel. A million shows in between and even a few after. I'd estimate I've been to over 60 ROH shows in my life, so yeah, there's a personal memory thing there. As far as eras... I loved that first year. I've never been a huge production values guy. I like the nitty gritty and the work. The atmosphere, and that first year felt sooooo different and special. I liked the second year too, as the Joe run started. I'd say 2004 is where I break from consensus, as that summer I went through personal shit and lost some of my connection to the product (stopped going to live shows for a while). 2005 was neat to watch pieces of on DVD, but it isn't for me what it is for others. My personal glory period where I was completely locked into the product was 2006 through Sapolsky's firing in 2008. That breaks from the '04-'06 or '07 narrative many people have, but that's just my personal feeling. Once Sapolsky was let go I went to show for another half a year and then faded out. I have been to shows since '09 sporadically, maybe 4 or 5, the New Japan/ROH in NYC from May of this year being the last one, but I don't have that personal connection to ROH - that involved, first-person, home team feel I had from 2002 to 2008 - anymore. Its not "my" promotion, with "my" guys, or the staff I really knew running/working for it. Still, so many great memories, and I find myself still rooting for them to succeed. (I just realized Dave Musgrave and I went to see a TV taping in August which was actually a really good show. Sorry, Dave. lol) Final side note. Me seeing Joe/Kobashi live ended up sparking an email discussion between myself and longtime Philly fan Gene Boyer way back in mid-'06. I was somewhat familar with Will and Charles then, but that conversation with Gene led to our friendship, my friendship with Will, and eventually too many names to mention from here - and STILL growing. I'm very lucky for all that ROH inadvertently brought me on several different levels, and I am reminded of that when I owe many of you phones calls or emails (Charles, Dylan, Bix, Dave, and there's gotta be a few more. I'm getting there guys! lol)

Got it. Thanks everybody!

Hey, looking for a download link on that Soundcloud file so I can load it into my Ipod. I have a second hand Ipod off Amazon, so there's an issue with ITunes and me (haven't been able to load the pods it downloads automatically in years, but it swears they are there.)

Shoe, same progression. I think the show is interesting in that us "older fans" (not in age so much as having been around and evolved in different ways over time) would relate to this in a certain way - not necessarily the same way, but as a shared experience to some degree- while younger fans here, like anyone under 24, might take it as some historical experiential information and have a different perspective. If you are 24 this year, you were born in 1990, you were 11 when ECW and WCW shut down, and generally your fan experience on the internet (which was there practically your whole life) with wrestling and what we talked about might be somewhat different. That's sort of an interesting side story to me. Glad you enjoyed the discussion. You need to do another pod with Will, man!

What Steven said!!! Pumped.

Love ALL the feedback. Thanks guys, and thanks to Dylan and Will for doing the show with me (we were trying to schedule this all summer.) I do want to point out, since this happened on Facebook and now here, that Johnny Sorrow and I are two seperate people. I love Sorrow, and we've actually done a few podcasts together on a panel (my favorite is the History of Philly wrestling we did with Will and special guest Blue Meanie, and its in the PTBN archives). So just to put it to rest, Sorrow has the cooler voice, but I'm the guy who made the documentary. haha

Restart worked. I'm good. Can't wait!

Chrome. I'm an all Google guy (just because my phone and computer happened to come that way). I'll try it again. Restart the thing and see what I get. Glad Will got a full crew. Was feeling bad I couldn't jump on it as I drove home at 11, thinking it was just him and Dylan based on texts. Was also barely keeping my eyes open at the time, and thought of jumping on the line for ten minutes because I had so much to say about the shgow (overall, I really enjoyed it), but I've done that "I gotta be up early, man. I can get on for maybe 20-30 minutes." That always ends with me on the phone at 2 am, wide awake, knowing tomorrow will be hell.

Can't get it to play or download (really want to right click, save as with this thing). Says "Server Problem" when I try to download. Let us know when it's fixed up cause I can't wait to hear it.

Oh, and his work involving ECW (and I'm a guy who spent a lot of his life waist deep in ECW research and opinion, remember), specifically columns from 1995 ("Everybody Sucks But Us"), '96 ("Some Revolution"), and '97 (blanking on this one), were excellent as well.

He has a piece around Mania 19, so probably March or April 2003, entitled something along the lines of "The high tech lynching of Booker T" that I always thought was excellent. I'm probably bias because I am friendly with Mitchell, and I've always stuck up for him when he's been smashed by other friends of mine, but he is a very talented, thoughtful man. He can be over the top, and he sticks to a premise of a sarcastic joke a little too long, but not having the greatest comedic timing isn't a prosecutable offense. Is he grating at times? Sure, he has those moments. He is certainly moralisitc to a fault, but I'd rather he be guilty of that than play to fast and loose. There are times the Torch goes after a story on a basis which I think is a bit to overly PC, sensative, or just reaching. But that does not invalidate them. My arguement has always been that if they did that 4 times I would still support them because that fifth time they'll be the voice making something clear when others might brush it under the rug. They ae a bit of a watchdog organization who believes is journalism and form. They are a necessary figure in pro wrestling journalism and columns. Mitchell has been at the front of that bus for over 20 yrs. And just for his history podcasts, fans like those here should at the very least appreciate the guy.

Eh, Will's" I'm not smoking anymore" gimmick was D.O.A. anyway. Glad he hooked me up with Sorrow and Dylan so I get good wrestling chatter once in a while. And Dundee DOES suck.

Thanks, Rovert. Kris and Dylan had great angles on stuff (the first few matches they'd go after me in the relation and I'd be like, "shit, if they went first I would have echoed it and not been goofing off." lol) Sorrow has the greatest gimmick ever - be funny, play your "character" (that's just Johnny), and then say a bunch of sneaky-smart things that remind people he's a real smart, observant guy. So I was lucky as hell to be on a panel with my friends, who just happen to be smart people. Oh, and Will was there too Def check this show out though. Funnier, with smarter analysis and a deeper knowledge base (that is displayed, at least) than many of these types of podcasts on "known" sites.

Johnson was not there, no. He had, by his words, three sources saying this though, at different stages (A tech guy who isn't in wrestling in the hotel, I believe a wrestler, and WWE front office). For the record I think its bizarre anyone cares if Hogan was there or not, given that the reporting was correct that Hogan was resigning and would be at Mania. That's the story, if this is a story you actually care about. Not the guy at a hotel ballroom coming out to introduce a video segment at a tech launch. Maybe I'm jaded, but I've always found it odd that people smash Meltz or Mike, or anyone who does a hell of a job getting 90% right in a landscape of liars, drug addicts, and insecure Peter Pan types.Much of the time this is done without nuance, based on what "team" people think they play for (AKA give money to a site, buy into that sites culture/message board community, or the larger opinion of said entity). Damn, wrestling journalism following has become even more political. lol. Meltz and Johnson are the top news guys right now, and I still think the Torch as an analysis site makes interesting observations and introduces good conversations a good percentage of the time. I think Jason Powell provides a lot of good verbal presentation and thought without trying to be overly negative at DotNet, which is refreshing when it comes to internet wrestling coverage and commenting. So I'm old guard, and all these guys "get in the door" for me. No one is floating completely fake stories that they know of that are major, and that's the point for me. It doesn't affect my life if Jericho does or doesn't show up at a PPV, or Sheldon Benjamin isn't actually in a Rumble (Meltz & Johnson knocks respectively). That's Forrest from the trees shit. What are the really important issues, stories, and stances? The real story to me isn't some "gotcha" when a reporter misses something irrelevant or semi-relevant that's really in the details (no one is cheering Johnson for his stance and reporting on CM Punk NOT being there, just trashing Meltz because he can't speak properly in public to this day, and therefore flubbed the wording/clarity of Punk in Chicago). The real story is where is the next wave of TALENTED, well thought of wrestling journalists coming from? Where are the commentators who will come at news with interesting angles and fair talking points, and a true intellectual curiosity? Are they here yet, are they being nurtured and growing, and can they avoid the pitfalls of the generation before them in a world that already is 90% new media (with all the interactive, opinion-based trappings). I'd argue, for the record, that many of the best thinkers and "opinion makers" in wrestling reside here. I'd like to see them get paid some day, and maintain some integrity while they do it.

I was seriously SOOOO excited to see this, and the running time, honestly (If I'm only getting you guys once every six weeks or so, I want the time to be immersive, detailed, and all-encompassing). I downloaded the 2011, 2012, AND 2013 versions. So far I've listened to '12 and I'm about to finish '13. Love you guys every time you do a show, but especially the year reviews w/ Tim. these are awesome references that you can listen to every few years that go in-depth in a way you might not be able to if you did a year in review of say 2012, but looking back and recording it in 2018. Now, don't get me wrong - Those types of shows from the people here (PTBN, Will/Charles/Childs, and/or Wrestling Culture are scary good, but there's a detailed, raw emotional connection that comes out in the opinions and meticulous details when these things are recorded and preserved IN THE MOMENT. So thanks a ton, guys. You know I'm on that BIGGEST fans list. Always pushing you guys to friends, acquaintances, and media types.

I've always really enjoyed HBK's performances at Mania, so he'd have my vote. Austin is great, but has a short resume. I'd really like to see the people with better memories give an analysis of the people on the short list by giving small notes on their matches. I thought Michaels was good in the Iron Man match (though I'm not a huge fan of the overall match, thought he had a gutsy performance in dropping the belt to Austin. I used to hate his Mania 19 match with Jericho, re-watched it a few years later, and really liked it. I'm not as into the Mania 20 main event as some have been over the years, but its still good (and I don;t really like three ways). I'll also add that while it might not be in vogue to say this, myself and several of my friends love HBK vs Angle from 2005. I just like the story and the little pieces of it, and i don't wish to over analyze it, though I think some criticisms are fair. I think 2006 was HBK and McMahon, or the spirit squad. Wasn't my thing. 2007 he had a pretty good match with Cena (though the RAW match weeks later was better). 2008 he started his "storyteller" run by beating Flair. Not a match of the Year, but its a match I'll rewatch any time for the story. 2009 and 2010 he had the two matches with UT. I'll watch the first one any day, and the second I thought was good, though I haven't rewatched it since the day after it happened. So just on the feel level - in terms of being entertained - I like Shawn Michaels as a pick. Austin and Rock's resume mostly consists of each other, though Austin has the classic with Bret. UT I'll leave to someone else. He evolved fairly well, but he's never been one of "my guys."

I do want to make clear that I think Will's process is cool too, and obviously I've enjoyed in partaking. Everybody seems to have a different process, and I think the middle is a good medium (which is to say I couldn't feel totally informed doing it Will's way, but I worry about over analysis on the boards and from nitpicking to hard by yourself/looking for negatives). Given that you guys do argue this stuff here and in the DVDVR message board threads anyway, and HAVE already watched a bunch of these matches, I WOULD really love to hear Matt D and Dylan on one of these podcasts w/ Will. I think both of your reactions, insights, leanings, and opinions on some of these matches you have strong feelings on would be awesome to hear. I totally understand not wanting to watch the whole set like that, or perhaps worrying about opinions being swayed by strong voices in a group conversation, but we run the risk of that here on the boards too (which is why I don't read a thread until AFTER a match is watched). I just think you both are intelligent (Dylan, for instance, is a friend who I trusted enough to consult on my new project) and could add good counterpoints.

I'd only like to add that I liked the first cage match when watching in a group, probably liked the second one less BECAUSE i was watching it the same night and had just liked the first (very similar) match, which to me felt more intense and visceral, and that I haven't deeply analyzed any of this (or any matches post the third disc) to any real degree. If I do have a ballot (I was giving up until Will said I'd have time post April 20th). I'll probably be my usual obsessive self and go back and watch w/ sound, alone, taking notes. The weird trade off is that I didn't really enjoy a ton watching the first three disks alone much, and REALLY had fun watching on the listening party w/ friends. However, I can't give any true analysis that way, and the matches are sometimes a blur a week later (no super strong impressions). It's a weird trade off. I want to enjoy wrestling, and I sometimes over analyze it. But when I don't do any analysis, nothing sticks past the enjoyment of several moves/sequences, and who doesn't want to enjoy something you're giving up time to do. So I'm personally looking for that balance of critical thinking and actually having fun with it.

I'll be getting in later Friday night. I have to work the Wrestlecon Expo Sarturday and Sunday w/ Blue Meanie (BIX, stop by the Barbed wire City table and say hi.) So I'll miss all the shows except Mania itself, but hopefully when I'm off with friends Saturday night I'll be able to do something social andd see people.