El-P

And keep on looking like complete shit on MLW TV like you did last week, Gotch, all this will sure get you somewhere... (this is the week of guys saying stupid shit on Twitter or what ? Wait, it's that week every week... still...) Wonder what Corny, who's a friend of Meltz, will have to say about that one.

Oh yeah. Tanahashi thanking seemingly *everyone* at ringside was something else. BTW, I was right about Yano. Really funny finish too which played on the fact Mox carried Shota for the entire tour. At some point I was expecting to beat him up out of frustration. Takagi vs Cobb was the second best Cobb match to me, as Takagi is just that good. Naito vs Juice had a lot to love, although they did screw up a few spots. Naito, Naito, Naito, how broken down are you gonna get soon.... White vs Taichi was a tremendous Battle of the Douchebags. Excellent finishing stretch too. You know, I think White is the closest thing to a modern day Jake Roberts as far as how he works. I was not expecting Goto to win. I guess everything is open still, but to me Mox won one match too many. I mean, if he goes to 12, it's already over for Naito, isn't it ? Anyway. Prediction : White beats Mox then goes on to 12. Mox beats Goto. On the last day White beats Naito and Juice beats Mox, White goes in the final to do the job to Ibushi.

It's often overused, but in this case it's really a legend and one of the greatest of all time that goes away. So influential for pushing pro-wrestling toward the modern era too. My favourite stuff from Harley were all his matches against Baba in Japan, just awesome stuff. He had the perfect look for a pro-wrestler in his era too. The stories of his demeanor as a boss, including in Japan of course, are legendary. Yeah, he was one of a kind.

Enzo & Cass !!! (sorry, but I couldn't resist, it has become a running gag on PWO lately) Yea, Tully's awesome. It's amazing to see the Blanchards, father & daughter, killing it in their respective fields in 2019.

Well, that is pretty funny. But in a way, this guy threw his name out there. I'm sure most people never ever heard of him before (I sure did not). Now they probably think he's a complete douchebag IRL, so I'm not sure it balances the fact he's made himself more known though but...

Again ? (from half the roster to a dozen, I dunno if that's progress or not) Where does the "white guys" come from BTW ? Are you implying something or is it stricly descriptive (true question BTW, I'm not sure how you meant it, so I'm trying not to imply anything myself) ? Also : Yeah. But don't bother Bix, at this point, I feel this is getting on the verge of gimmick posting. Either that or "athletic" only means "looking like Randy Orton" in this context. No idea. But the idea Marko Stunt doesn't stand out is so ridiculous. Yeah, he totally looks like Jimmy Havoc (who yes, is the perfect picture of pasty unathletic looking white guy, but who has a very dinstinctive look and character). As far as looking like he's 13, well, MJF's promo on Stunt on BTE the other week was hilarious. A guy whinning on Twitter because someone else got hired ain't gonna win him any cookie. Well I guess he's trying to get himself booked as a heel somewhere against Stunt, which may even work at some point… Twitter warriors…

Miho Abe agrees for at least one of them.

Of course they do. Can't wait for the first TNT show so we know exactly why it's a failure and why the roster and the booking sucks (after exactly 5 shows).

This entire conversation is dumb as fuck. Amazing how some people really want to hate on AEW and its fans, just because... because who the fuck knows. Anyway, yeah, LAX would be really cool.

IMPACT has a decent but limited roster, and they put a super easy to watch, really solid 2 hours TV show every week, with usually a very good main event. It's not that hard. People are making it seem way more difficult than it is. AEW has a deeper roster than IMPACT, it shouldn't be much of a problem. Of course, the week to week booking is something else. D'Amore & Callis are obviously very good at it, this is the big unknown as far as AEW goes.

The only saving grace of Fale this year is that he's a jobber, at least. But yeah, last year, please. I couldn't be bothered to pay attention to his match with Ibushi. Henare has grown on me recently (probably him cutting down his tribal act to a minimum), at this point I wouldn't be opposed to him being throw in there instead of Fale, who's been useless. Ospreay vs Sabre was as terrific as it looked on paper. I love those two. Archer is easily the biggest surprise of this G1. Who could have guessed he would be so freaking good ? I loved him terrifying that little kid at ringside too, then say "shut up" to that old lady who made a remark. I thought he could beat Okada, but Okada is Choshu, so no way. Although I would rather have Okada drop this one than a match to Sanada, who's not been that good. Speaking of which, I thought KENTA looked really good again here, while Sanada was kinda there. The sequence where he dropped KENTA after blocking the explosive knee had him look lost for a few seconds, while KENTA immediately punched him in the head to cover up, so we saw who the veteran is here. I dunno, I'm not feeling Sanada. EVIL however is someone I never cared for, but he's having a really good G1. Tana of course is still an awesome worker despite looking physically shot at times. This match exceeded my expectations, with a great finishing stretch in which I believed EVIL could actually beat the Ace. So, three guys at 8. Interesting.

Well, I can understand why he would not appeal to everyone. I'm not sure I quite got to him the first times I saw him either.

He's certainly got a comedy edge to him, but unathletic ? Maybe he doesn't look like Kota Ibushi, but the guy can work. I thought that was the most important today, as opposed to look like a crossfit guy (see what I did ?).

Yeah, because Monday Night Raw should be and is the reference of what a great pro-wrestling product looks like in 2019... It's like, so damn good.

Honestly, I have no idea how someone with a remotely credible background in audio-visual producing can watch this and not think this is total amateur hour. I've seen Youtubers shot and edit better action scenes than this with a budget of a few hundred euros. The "great WWE production" is a complete joke. They have the richest production in pro-wrestling, but that's it. I dunno how FOX executives can watch that shit and believe it's good TV. I've seen porn shot and acted better than this scene. It's embarrassing even for pro-wrestling standards, and that covers a whole lot of ground. This is WCW 2000 level of shit.

They are not unathletic comedy guys. The Dark Order gimmick sucks, but the talent doesn't. Have you even see any of these guys work ? To say they are unathletic comedy guys is simply factually wrong. The whole "they don't look like athletes" is an incredibly dated reference. Maybe I don't mind because I'm an old ECW fan. And lately, a LU fan.

Really now ? https://www.allelitewrestling.com/roster (switch PAC for Stunt) Ok, so Micheal Nakazawa and Peter Avalon (for now) are comedy guys. Jimmy Havoc looks undersized, but unathletic, nah, he can work, as showed by the last 6-men match. (and I don't even care for the guy) He could be thrown in comedy garbage guy on occasion. I guess you could consider Sonny Kiss a comedy worker, or a US Exotico. Stunt is undersized. That's his whole appeal. He's not unathletic by any stretch of the imagination. That's exactly 4 people. Add in the women. Yeah, what an awful roster of misfits that have nothing to do in pro-wrestling....

Yeah, it's hilariously bad on every level ! And these people fantazise of having an Emmy Award ?

Not-Bischoff ain't doing his job right I guess.

Actually, every old-school guy would talk about how pro-wrestling is listening to the audience and react accordingly. I've heard it countless times from guys like Funk, Cornette etc… As far as leading them, well, modern pro-wrestler do that very well. They simply don't lead them to the same places as the older guys did, I guess. Or maybe they do. That woman crying her eyes out last year at the G1 when Naito got fucked out of the final by losing to ZSJ, well, she got led.

… people who don't share the same tastes as you ? "Bad" fans ? Come on now. Old-school pro-wrestling has been built on "listening to the audience". That's reaction, as you very rightly said earlier on. So, you should listen to the audience unless they like tight slapping and movez too much ? There are the "good" fans and the "bad" fans ? You're back straight into bias here.

Understood. But why should they ? And you did say that "they jettison a lot of heat/emotion they could have garnered", so that is a judgement, and a negative one. For instance, honestly, I think Bucks vs Cody & Dustin would have got a much better reaction at Fight for the Fallen is they had worked a more Bucks style match, especially at that point of the card after Omega vs Cima. The lack of heat (not that one) could be attributed partly to the fact they tried to work a more sold-school, deliberate style for a while.

About norms, there's also this : norms change. Norm evolve. What used to be the norm isn't anymore. I thought about something recently. Like mostly every older fan I guess, I was annoyed by tight slapping. Those damn tight slaps noise in LU ! Every shot you hear that noise. Then I thought about when I was a young teenager, I was raised on guys stomping their feet while punching. Or kicking. Or headbutting. And I was annoyed by wrestlers who would not do it, to me it looked bad, because you did not have the stomping noise. When I would play pro-wrestler, I would of course stomp when throwing a punch. Now think about that for a second... What is faker ? The noise of feet stomping on the mat when punching, or the noise of flesh (hand) slapping flesh (tight) ? Actually, the tight slapping is a much better, organic noise effect most of the time. Plus, I found it super cool when Owen Hart used to do it when he did his enzuigiri. At this point, I'm not annoyed anymore. Yeah, it's goofy, especially a bunch of different spots sound the same. But it's not more goofy than stomping your feet when you punch, or stomping your feet when you kick someone, which seemed perfectly acceptable to me for the longest time. As of now, I think it's safe to say that tight slapping is the norm in pro-wrestling for a bunch of moves (enzuigiris, front kicks, elbows, some punching). I'm pretty sure people raised on this find it absolutely the most logical way to work. Ok, enough ranting.

There's something I realized when I watched Ishii's matches in the G1. Sometimes, he does stuff that aren't logical in term of no-selling this or that move for instance, but because of how he does it and when he chooses to do it, it *always* pops the match up to the next level of intensity and mind-fuckery for the audience, and that's why he's brillant.

This is exactly what I talked about when I mentioned bias and expectations. Where is the written rule that says a pro-wrestling tag match should be worked like an 80's southern tag team match ? Why should it be that way ? The answer is simple : there isn't and there's no reason why it should. It's only because of what you project onto the match, your own internalized norm, that you judge modern action packed match as lacking something. Someone born and raised with the Lucha Brothers may think different. A japanese guy raised on 80's NJ will think otherwise. A mexican guy raised on CMLL will think otherwise. They only lack something because of what you project in it, your own internalized bias and norm.