El-P

(Game of Thrones sucks)

This. Today, what I want from pro-wrestling is basically Lucha Underground. This is the most fun I had watching current pro-wrestling since I was following ARSION (through buying tapes) in the late 90's/early 00's.

Yes. But still. It was a crowd not happy but a business decision who shat on an entire show and did a "smart" chant akin to people chanting CM Punk in WWE just after he left.

When the people chanted "We Want Flair" in 1990, was that one because of Gabe, Heyman & Russo too ?

They filmed some Total Divas in Paris ? Interesting. Wonder where they went. Well, probably not in the places I used to go.

Jeff Jarrett vs Jeff Hardy (NWA title match - TNA 09/08/04) Jeff Hardy being treated like a megastar when he really had not been anything but a stuntman tag champ in WWF was really the first occurence of TNA making themselves look like WWE fetichists (there had been the D-Lo push, but it was more filler). Add the fact Hardy really looked poor in the few matches he had to that point, the last weekly PPV, and you got all the recipe for a wimper of a match. The entire PPV had been quite bad thus far too, easily the worst in months. Begins with an endless brawl involving security during the introduction, because this is so intense, you see, the biggest match of TNA, of Hardy's and Jarrett's career. I don't get Hardy at all. I know I'm not the right audience, but still. He should never try to punch. The thing is, he looks sloppy and works like he looks. I can't think one thing he's particulary good at. His flying looks pathetic compared to most of the X div guys. His striking is awful. I guess he can get sympathy from the girls. He does idiotic moves modifications (the Hardys & Edge, damn them). This was a complete nothing match, one of Jarrett's worst (after he had some really good stuff a few months before), with crappy pacing, going nowhere during an endless Korakuen walk brawling sequence leading to Hardy hitting his finisher so Jarrett can kickout (ah ah). Then Hardy kicks out of the Stroke (surprising somewhat, Jarrett can be carnier than this). Then a figure four with zero preparation of course. Then Hardy doing a sloppy looking crab. Run-ins from Dusty, Russo. Guitar shot. Even for a Double J Special, it was bad. Jarrett looked his old bad self from late 03 and Hardy looked like crap. This is a sad ending to the weekly PPV era, which had some good stuff buried in there.

ADR = all time GOAT if true, You don't call him El Patron for nothing. I wonder who took the others finisher though. (can't wait for the Alberto Youshoot V2.0, he was such the clean family one in version 1)

Mental picture of three ways between ADR, Paige & Eva Marie.

Announcing that the complexion of the match has totally changed.

I agree, and it usually makes me laugh which is surely not the intended reaction. Thirded. One reason the Austin vs Bret match is so great is that they really didn't work it that way.

Agreed. To me it's Sid's hour of glory. He never look more like an actual star than on this night. I love the asshole NYC crowd too here.

I haven't seen it in ages, but yeah, that's what it seemed to be the last time I watched it. Wasn't blown away at all.

I thought it was about promotions you only wached as it happened. So, I have to add : AJPW 80-90s NJPW 80-90s Doh ! FMW, from start to finish (well, until the Hayabusa accident let's say) UWF/UWF/UWF I/RINGS, shoot-style heaven and that sort of things. Zenjo 90's, when the women were better than most men JWP until the curse crashed them down : see above, with that underdog feel (and those dead crowds at points too) And of course, I forgot, my beloved Lucha Underground.

I thought about that bit quite often during that thread. It never gets old to me.

Alert. Parv is now quoting himself. The current revisionism about Meltz is the best though. I'd guess pretty much none of us would be here today without the evil snowflake culture and nerdy breaking down of matches and angles. But I guess some people believe in transcendance in pro-wrestling analysis.

I want to reevaluate Giant Gonzalez. Not actually. But I like the idea. I loved his droning music in WWF.

That's the Meltzerian history you're refering too. The one of "official good work". The "workrate history", in essence. Just saying.

Hell, Maria Kannelis used to talk about how "back in her days" they were telling stories in the ring. So yeah. Can't wait for the next 20 years.

It really is a horrible new reality we're living in that a man with a brain lesion that causes seizures is forced to retire instead of being allowed to further damage his brain. Think of all the great ***** matches we're missing out on because of this bullshit "people shouldn't kill themselves for wrestling" attitude. And who said that BTW ? Oh, you're just trolling. My bad.

Couldn't agree more. Romanticism, or even exoticism. I mean, to me, watching an old NJ match from the old Ryogoku is like watching an old Fukasaku movie. It was never my culture, I was never there, but I can project a lot on it, including mostly what isn't really there. And people waxing poetics about old US crowds, whether they knew it from their own past or just love it for its aesthetics, are doing the same. They are projecting either their own nostalgia or just plain mythology that was built with the years.

Who gives a fuck ? It's an indy match. Both got a payday. Osprey's profile only gets bigger because of the whole deal no matter what. Work, people, work.

Doesn't matter. "Workrate = evil" in our circles directly comes from the Benoit tragedy, as it had anything to do with it. Bryan's early and forced retirement, much like the Wellness Policy, directly comes from the Benoit heritage too.

There is no Post-Bryan era. We're still in the Post-Benoit workrate guilt era (not talking about the mainstream crowd of course, who don't give a damn about that nonsense).

Save the patronizing for someone else Parv. Terry Funk is my favourite pro-wrestler ever. At this point, I do think these kind of chants are part of the fiction in a way, because the workers clearly work toward getting them. Different times.

You really know your way into babbling about nothing and make it seem like you're actually saying substantial. The problem is that I wasn't arguing at all with my last remark. I was just making a remark using another political term we discussed before as a link. Call it abstract poetry. Or maybe you can read it simply as "Well, if you call Austin's "philosophy" libertarian just because he was an individualistic prick, maybe I can call you a fascist because of your idiotic remark about "people"". Make it your own, my words are always good for interpretations. We're posting on an american based pro-wrestling board talking about US pro-wrestling. When you say "libertarian", people think (I guess), about Ayn Rand shit. And as far as the broader term, whatever it means, I don't think Austin was exactly what I'd call libertarian either. He was a hunting redneck asshole at heart. Again. Pseudo-intellectual blabbing. No, authentic jingoism and homophobia isn't better than people chanting "Fight forever". And really, you can get as much from "Fight forever" in term of what today's crowds are and why they chant that kind of things than from old times offensive chants. But, ironically enough, you're throwing the moral judgement against them "evil smark self-referential posturing" current crowds while only showing love and appreciation for those good old racist crowds from years gone by. Say no more.