El-P

Mental picture of three ways between ADR, Paige & Eva Marie.

Announcing that the complexion of the match has totally changed.

I agree, and it usually makes me laugh which is surely not the intended reaction. Thirded. One reason the Austin vs Bret match is so great is that they really didn't work it that way.

Agreed. To me it's Sid's hour of glory. He never look more like an actual star than on this night. I love the asshole NYC crowd too here.

I haven't seen it in ages, but yeah, that's what it seemed to be the last time I watched it. Wasn't blown away at all.

I thought it was about promotions you only wached as it happened. So, I have to add : AJPW 80-90s NJPW 80-90s Doh ! FMW, from start to finish (well, until the Hayabusa accident let's say) UWF/UWF/UWF I/RINGS, shoot-style heaven and that sort of things. Zenjo 90's, when the women were better than most men JWP until the curse crashed them down : see above, with that underdog feel (and those dead crowds at points too) And of course, I forgot, my beloved Lucha Underground.

I thought about that bit quite often during that thread. It never gets old to me.

Alert. Parv is now quoting himself. The current revisionism about Meltz is the best though. I'd guess pretty much none of us would be here today without the evil snowflake culture and nerdy breaking down of matches and angles. But I guess some people believe in transcendance in pro-wrestling analysis.

I want to reevaluate Giant Gonzalez. Not actually. But I like the idea. I loved his droning music in WWF.

That's the Meltzerian history you're refering too. The one of "official good work". The "workrate history", in essence. Just saying.

Hell, Maria Kannelis used to talk about how "back in her days" they were telling stories in the ring. So yeah. Can't wait for the next 20 years.

It really is a horrible new reality we're living in that a man with a brain lesion that causes seizures is forced to retire instead of being allowed to further damage his brain. Think of all the great ***** matches we're missing out on because of this bullshit "people shouldn't kill themselves for wrestling" attitude. And who said that BTW ? Oh, you're just trolling. My bad.

Couldn't agree more. Romanticism, or even exoticism. I mean, to me, watching an old NJ match from the old Ryogoku is like watching an old Fukasaku movie. It was never my culture, I was never there, but I can project a lot on it, including mostly what isn't really there. And people waxing poetics about old US crowds, whether they knew it from their own past or just love it for its aesthetics, are doing the same. They are projecting either their own nostalgia or just plain mythology that was built with the years.

Who gives a fuck ? It's an indy match. Both got a payday. Osprey's profile only gets bigger because of the whole deal no matter what. Work, people, work.

Doesn't matter. "Workrate = evil" in our circles directly comes from the Benoit tragedy, as it had anything to do with it. Bryan's early and forced retirement, much like the Wellness Policy, directly comes from the Benoit heritage too.

There is no Post-Bryan era. We're still in the Post-Benoit workrate guilt era (not talking about the mainstream crowd of course, who don't give a damn about that nonsense).

Save the patronizing for someone else Parv. Terry Funk is my favourite pro-wrestler ever. At this point, I do think these kind of chants are part of the fiction in a way, because the workers clearly work toward getting them. Different times.

You really know your way into babbling about nothing and make it seem like you're actually saying substantial. The problem is that I wasn't arguing at all with my last remark. I was just making a remark using another political term we discussed before as a link. Call it abstract poetry. Or maybe you can read it simply as "Well, if you call Austin's "philosophy" libertarian just because he was an individualistic prick, maybe I can call you a fascist because of your idiotic remark about "people"". Make it your own, my words are always good for interpretations. We're posting on an american based pro-wrestling board talking about US pro-wrestling. When you say "libertarian", people think (I guess), about Ayn Rand shit. And as far as the broader term, whatever it means, I don't think Austin was exactly what I'd call libertarian either. He was a hunting redneck asshole at heart. Again. Pseudo-intellectual blabbing. No, authentic jingoism and homophobia isn't better than people chanting "Fight forever". And really, you can get as much from "Fight forever" in term of what today's crowds are and why they chant that kind of things than from old times offensive chants. But, ironically enough, you're throwing the moral judgement against them "evil smark self-referential posturing" current crowds while only showing love and appreciation for those good old racist crowds from years gone by. Say no more.

Loving that new "90's mad" gimmick about me, who's spent the last year reviewing and actually finding good shit in old TNA, who praised the hell out of every NXT PPV and who's maybe the biggest Lucha Underground fan on the board. But "that dated Takada guy" is my gimmick I guess. Anyway. The fact is, yes, Magnum, or any babyface "stealing a kiss" from a woman heel was and is even more uncomfortable, and the "she likes it!" line is pretty disgusting. Anyway. As far as Austin just being Crusher/Magnum 2.0, well, I know you're obsessed with the idea that nothing new is ever good and nothing good is ever new, but not really, Austin was different from any other big babyface, even rather heelish ones (which Crushed and Magnum never were). Austin was a beer drinking maniac who didn't give a shit about anyone but himself. Libertarian ? That's JBL, not Austin. Seriously now, what the fuck is so wrong about this ? Was it way better when good ol' wrestling fan from the Garden of Eden were chanting "USA !" at any "evil" foreign heels, because the good ol' US of A is da best country in the world and fuck any other culture, or classic "faggots !" chants at effeminate looking heels ? Im sorry, but a crowd having fun chanting Fandango's music theme or even lame and simpleton "You've stil got it !" is a million time less offensive and at least doens't make me ashame of being a pro-wrestling fan (which is not always easy). "The people should be tamed" is not even libertarian. It's rather fascist actually. (great post by Parties BTW)

The Naturals vs AMW vs XXX (TNA tag team title match - 09/01/04) It's really hard to have a good triple threat non-elimination match, much less a real good one. This was a success, thanks to three things : there was no overscripted cutesy spots; there was a storyline of James Storm being badly injured which allowed time for some actual classic tag team action with Naturals taking over for a while; the finish was excellent and played into both Storm's injury and the fact the Naturals are sneaky bastards who steal victories. Plus, the work from most guys, especially Daniels & AMW, was super solid, Primetime (yeah, Skipper is only going by Brian Lee's nickname now) delivering some cool action sequences and the Naturals being very good at being sneaky (like at one point Chase Stevens just throws a little petty kick from outside to James' injured back, which gets Harris into an offensive rage as he beats the crap out of him). This is coming after weeks of good TV matches between AMW & XXX and a pretty good AMW vs Naturals feud which culminated in a cage match. At this point, if AMW had worked anywhere but TNA, they would be pimped much more than they are. Really an underrated team that is better than a number of more "classic" WWF teams. TNA should deserve way more attention. This was a damn good triple threat match, which is a rarity in itself. And yeah, that finish was perfect.

I don't really want to have that mental picture in mind. Although that's probably what they were doing. And good for them too !

Agreed. Especially since he left Lucha Underground because he wasn't happy about not being in the main matches of Ultima Lucha. Made him look like a whining bitch who just packs it up when he doesn't get his way, straight to the place he was graced with racism and where he was used to do, well, like it's been said, shit.

What a totally useless comeback this guy had. He never looked better than in Lucha Underground anyway. He's a goner.

Bingo.

Pro-wrestling was better when you could cheer for sexual assault.