El-P

I bet he has friends who did it.

So, the Rock drawing wrestling fans to movie theatres should count for something. This pro-wrestling = MMA stuff is so stupid.

I have no idea what the consensus was in 96 about Bret vs Shawn. Bret vs Perfect wasn't a pure face vs face match, as the story of the match is Perfect getting frustrated and heeling it up.

Using SKeith as a reference is a huge no-no. The match is *good* at best to me, which for a "Bret passing the torch to Michaels at WM" match, should be considered a failure.

On work *only* the Rock'n Roll are Hof. On influence *only* that are Hof. And they drew. This is just ridiculous. Meanwhile, they're talking about Edge being a deserving candidate.

Well what are the reasons why the best tag team in US wrestling history, one that drew money to boot, aren't in ?

Hum... what ? Seriously, the R&R Express aren't in already ? What a complete joke this entire thing is.

There's also the fact that old guys knew how to work the ropes. They knew how to tease eliminations, get wrapped up in the ropes, lose balance, work quasi-comedy spots. By the late 90's it was beginning to be a lost art. New guys just sucked at working the Rumble, and everything became overscripted.

If there's one thing that I think sums up Russo's fundamental incompetence, it's that he made the Royal Rumble suck. The Rumble is pretty much the most idiot-proof gimmick imaginable. Booking one is like Mr. Burns telling Darryl Strawberry to hit a home run. It isn't always great, but you have to go out of your way to make it actively shitty. Yet Russo managed to do it. Royal Rumble 1999 is what killed the WWF fan in me. I was raised on WWF. I discovered westling with WWF in the late 80's. The Royal Rumble was always the most exciting event of my mark days. Russo killed it. After Royal Rumble 1999, I was done with being a WWF fan, for ever. I remember it like it was yesterday. All of a sudden, that was it, I was done with something I followed religiously for 10 years. Sad day.

Word.

That joke never gets old with me.

Us probably. It's hard to feel any sympathy for this guy at this point.

There, I remember his name : WADA KYOHEI !!!!

Great referees : Tommy Ran Daichi Murayama Go Ito Nick Patrick Shitty referees : every ECW referee ever Also, I can't stand Earl Ebner. Can't stand his "epic two counts". Way overrated because he was the token big match referee in WWF for years.

I just watched it. It was godawful. Sunny looks good though.

Hasn't Kevin Nash done the exact same thing with Carl Oulette last year to promote some indy match, bringing up some shoot confrontation they had in WWF in 95 ? Dave reported on WOL that it was just horrible, basically Nash beating up Ricky, then the two of them cutting promos, Ricky going to shake Nash's hand only to have Nash powerbomb him and leave, Ricky winning by countout. All of this booked by Nash. TNA needs to get him back and give him a writing job, he'd be right at home.

And I agree it's way easy to say in hindsight, "Oh, Bret would/could never have taken the belt on Nitro." The MNW was dirty, with the hatred Bret had for Michaels, and the way Vince handled things (basically letting Michaels do all he wanted), who knows what might have happened. Again, not excusing Vince, but there's no way he's 100% responsible.

Vince didn't put a gun to Bret's head and told him to fuck off and negociate with WCW. Once Vince didn't want/think he could honor Bret's contract, they got to terms with each other so that Bret could get a fat contract with the concurrence who, at the time, was kicking WWF's ass. Its funny you picture Vince "fucking" Bret on his contract when in the reality, it's not exactly wat happened. Bret went to get the biggest money deal he ever had in his career instead of the 20 year deal. Seems ok to me. Bret agreed. He could have refused and sue Vince for breach of contract. Vince didn't "shit" on Bret's deal. Bret was ok to go to WCW and get a fat paycheck instead.

Agreed. Shitty character, terrible music theme, shitty matches. For a while, Taker was just godawful. And yeah, I don't think it's fair to use TNA as a proof Angle is not a draw. No one can draw in TNA. Cena would probably be the only active guy who could make a difference. Angle never really was in position to draw in WWE. And he was never *The Man*.

Agreed. Shitty character, terrible music theme, shitty matches. For a while, Taker was just godawful. And it didn't made a lick of sense coming from all the dead man incarnations. Taker & Kane as the face tag team in 2001 was just awful.

As soon as as saw the title of the thread, I knew Jerry Lawler would be pimped. Which is saying a lot about how sad wrestling truly is in 2011.

Yes. All of us. Vince McMahon never promoted wrestling. He's in the entertainment business.

WCW 2000.

Taker also had his group at one time. Taker, Yoko, Fatu, and a few other names I don't remember. That could have had a huge effect on the company for sure. Just incredible leverage.

I don't know. Taker put Shawn over on the previous PPV. He put Shawn over at RR again (not clean each time, I realize Kane was involved, but still). Bret's "I'll put him over, just not on the PPV in Canada because it's my audience" is just a stupid argument. My take on it is that Bret should have been above that petty crap. I'm not defending Vince nor think it was fair nor that Bret had it coming or anything, I'm just saying no one was right here, and that it was just a clusterfuck. Yes, Vince was responsible for fucking around with Bret's contract. Yes, Shawn was a gigantic asshole who deserved noting less but taking a beating. And yes, Bret was a mark for not wanting to simply drop the belt at the PPV. I'm amazed we can still debate about Montreal 14 years later though. Clearly one of the most important happening in modern wrestling history. I really didn't picture myself talking, much less arguing about it 14 years later when it happened.