El-P

The Saturday Night match was Scott Steiner walking over Flair in a sprint, Flair barely had any offense at all. At this point they were still on this idea that Flair was done as a main player. I wouldn't call either a good match, but at least the Saturday Night match accomplished something in making Scott look like a bonified monster. The Clash match was way too long for Scotty who had no clue how to work single for such a long stretch, and he was badly exposed as a guy who just wasn't ready. Of course technically it was also better because Flair could do more stuff, but in the end it just didn't click for me. In term of efficiency, the Saturday Night match was much better. It was also more exciting, with Arn DDTing Steiner only to have Rick steinerline Flair to even the score. So yeah, the Saturday Night match worked much better even though it was basically a Goldberg match.

Ric Flair vs Scott Steiner - Clash 14 - 1991.01.30 It was both good and bad. Bad because it was a Flair-by-number match to the point of stripping his opponent of his own identity, especially on offense. Scott worked like about any musclehead would against Flair, although no press slam which surprised me, doing requisite Flair spot like putting him in the figure-four, and doing zero suplexes before the final stretch. In a way you could argue that it was better to save the big spots for later in the match, as Scott at this point is basically a spot machine who throws people around with no rhyme, but it still never felt like you're watching Scott Steiner kicking Flair's ass like Scott Steiner should. Steiner was also awkward in spots, botching a few stuff in an embarrassing way, like this spot where they both should go over the tope rope that he couldn't execute along with Flair, so he had to basically throw himself out. And it was good because they worked a nice stretch to the finish, with Flair selling a Steiner suplex like it was hell, and building up the intensity to the last seconds depsite the obvious time limit draw finish. If the match allowed more Scott Steiner to work his own style early on, it could have been excellent. As it was, it felt by the number for a good while, and somewhat disjointed. Oh, and Flair short hair looked awful. Blame the Black Scorpion mask I guess.

I actually just witnessed a great exemple of that. Clash 14, in 91. Early in the card, Sting basically jumps above Butch Reed, who barely does a back body drop to avoid Sting, who goes flying over the tope rope to the floor. DQ. Really, Reed barely did anything but try to not get hit. In the main event, Flair is leaning on the ropes, Scott Steiner charges full speed and hits him with a clothesline which throws Flair over the tope rope to the floor, as expected. Ross shouts "Judgement call !!" Eh eh eh. What a bunch of bullshit.

And Takada was a shitty worker, I know the drill. I disagree. Yoshida, for her experience level and the spot she worked on the card, was excellent. She wasn't carried. She more than brought her share to the match. Now, I think Kyoko was a great fucking worker in 1992, and Yoshida was more than able to hang up with her. Yoshida was better than Toyota, Yamada, Hasegawa, Takako and plenty other. Yoshida was great working her own style, despite what the company did or not, from 1998 and on. She was great opposing Candy Okutsu in 98, and Candy didn't exactly worked like Fukawa. She was great against Asuka in 2002 too, and god knows I'm not a big fan of Asuka's style. Well, that says all there is to say there.

From watching it recently, I thought it was rather bad actually, and certainly Luger's worst big match in a long time. And it wasn't Luger's fault. Mark was just limited in what he could do outside of the realm of a squash match. Had a few nifty stuff, but nothing was coming together yet. As far as the Skyscrapper goes, the equation was simple : Dan Spivey worked, Sid sucked/Mark was doing one of two cool spots and that was it.

Worst ? Yoshihiro Takayama. Just a bad bad worker in UWF-I, and not particulary good in AJ before finding his ways.

Well, since I'm at it : Mariko Yoshida (super worker for 6 years even before she peaked in 98/99). Nobuhiko Takada (peaked in the mid 90's, already great as early as the mid-80's). Crazy statements I don't think so.

Ok, not as great, but not quite the gap some would think. Yoshida was already a superb worker as early as 1992, and after her injury, she made a comeback not missing a beat near workers like Toyota (who was peaking) and Hasegawa (peaking too). So let me rephrase this : Yoshida's peak >>> Hase's peak. Yoshida post prime >>> Hase's post prime. Yoshida before her prime = Hase before his prime. So yeah, while Hase's peak > Yoshida before her peak, there's not a lot of argument I can make for Hase overall. And I love both.

Indeed. FLIK keeps the joshi flame alive, which is no small feat. I used to do some pimping posts on 1992 myself back in 2003 or so, but nobody noticed then. Keep in mind, when I say she was better than Toyota in 92, it also takes in account the fact I think Toyota wasn't that great at this point. Yoshida went way up and Toyota went down (quite a bit) during my 1992 AJW watch. Maybe, but considering the style she worked (with a bit more lucha style and matwork) and the way she was doing it (smarter than say, Toyota), I don't think it would have made much a difference. Girls like Shimoda and Takako peaked after the interpromotionnal era too despite being deeply involved in it, and Yoshida would have worked at their level on the cards, probably in tags, and not in big long single matches. I think what made her peak was her will to reinvent herself in a totally new style, in which she excelled. She would have done it anyway after leaving AJW and the feather hats behind.

Did WCW do it consistently until the NWO era, or was there a period in the early 90s when they stopped? I seem to remember that Bill Watts brought that rule back out of retirement when he took over, but I'm not sure. They mentionned getting rid of the rule sometime in 1998. I don't think it was officialy done before.

Yoshida. Hase's career is well documented, he was a superb worker from the mid 80's to the mid 90's, and although his days as a juniors might not may remembered favorably these days, his peak as a workrate machine of NJ in the early 90's makes him a contender as one of the best japanese worker or the era. That being said, he has been rather disapointing during his comeback in AJ. Not meshing that well with the AJ style (which was surprising since Hase was all about stiffness and workrate, which suited the spirit), not delivering on a regular basis like he would before, although Hase was still good in the later part of his career, he wasn't a great wrestler anymore. Yoshida's early career is not as well known, because she was not pushed as much as girls like Takako, Hasegawa, and because she got injured just before the interpromotionnal eras, missing some of the biggest shows ever. Still, watching Yoshida in the early 90 makes it clear she quickly became an excellent worker, to me she was better than Toyota in 1992, and she remained an excellent worker despite the lack of push and bad outifits until she left AJW. Then, she reinvented herself in ARSION, turned into an über sexy and sleek matwork machine, created her own style that no one could follow (except Yumi Fukawa) and to me became the best wrestler in the world at that time. Lack of lot of good competition made it tough to get great matches back then, but she's been consistently superb since then, and people who followed the scene in the following crumbling years never reported any kind of drop in her work. She was also noted for being one hell of a trainer. Peak vs Peak, Yoshida is better. Career vs Career, Yoshida takes the cake too, her years in AJW are very underrated and about as good as anything Hase did during his peak (for the mid-90's).

Well, I actually never realized Flair regained the title in 91 on a house show. What a horrible way to erase 6 months of booking after a totally failed Sting title reign. Couldn't they at least book an angle for the Clash ? At the same time, I guess they realized Sting was doomed as far as being the Man was for the time, and they had to move onto other things, which would end up being nothing actually with Flair leaving with the belt. The finish of the Flair vs Sting match is another pet peeve of mine as far as Flair goes, sometimes the finish of his matches are just incredibly weak for world title matches, hell title changes. Here we get the infamous "Flair and his opponent bang their head, Flair rebound on the ropes and magically falls onto his opponent, and win the match despite being knocked out". While Will talked about the cross body being a game ender, which I don't buy for a second, I have actually seen Flair win several matches that particular lame way (I remember a Kerry match too), and I know that when Flair and whoever he faces bang their head while near the ropes, Flair usually wins. So I guess I'll call "Flair banging his head and falling accidently on his opponent" a game ender. I hate that finish. The best stuff on WCW during January 1991 was the Paul E. vs Missy feud, with fun little slapping and great Paul E. promos.

To me, Johnny Hotbody was the stand out worker of the early days. Candido would have, if he had stayed a little longer. I don't remember Rebel being particulary good to be honest. Decent I'd say.

I couldn't agree more. That's actually exactly how I see Flair.

Well, the fact is, he wasn't. Flair was a cheater. That's the whole character. Flair was the "dirtiest player in the game", a guy who would cheat to win. Ok, let's take this other exemple. The real only "game ender" of Flair was the figure four. It was sold as Flair's biggest and most efficient weapon. How many time Flair won a major title with the figure four ? How many time Flair got the figure four reversed by a babyface who never use it usually, or got roll up while trying to go the figure four ? I'm pretty sure the stats would not be overly positive in favor of Flair here, despite the fact the Figure Four was supposed to be Flair's specialty. A crossbody from the top wasn't. Never has been. Flair going to the top never screamed "game ender" but "Flair gets tossed". Trying to put more into this because Flair was booked to win twice with it it clearly overinterpretation.

In good a wrestling match yes. It was not the case here, they just ignored it. I blame the ref for getting down to count the pinfall attempt the first time. After that big of a fuck up, it was doomed anyway. But they probably should have been smart enough to not go for tons of pinfalls during the first five minutes while Ross and Caudle had to no-sell every attempt of it despite what was clearly happening in the ring. It was embarrassing to watch. Just retarded. Really ? I thought it was pretty sloppy actually, with Rogers not looking good at all. Pillman's dive was the highlight, sure, but apart from that... Terry Taylor vs Arn Anderson on the same show was a super solid match however, and I'm digging the slow Terry Taylor heel turn.

First show of 1991. They spend a good amount of time explaining the audience that Brian Pillman would face Rip Rogers in a match where the pinfall don't count during the 5 first minutes. because Rip Rogers is some kind of "marathon man". Well, 5 minutes, some marathon. But anyway. They do a Rogers promo explaining the reason behind the stipulation. The in-ring announcer actually tells it again before the beginning of the match. Match begins, like 30 seconds into it, tackle, Pillman goes for a pin (because it's "reflex") and... the referee gets down and count. Ross & Caudle absolutely no-sell it. And they do multiple pinfall attempts while the timekeeper announces each pasisng minutes during which they are *not supposed to go for pinfalls*. What a bunch of dumbfucks. Pillman, Rogers, and especially the ref Mike Atkins. Shitty match to boot. Man. WCW for you.

I never ever watched a Flair match thinking "If he hits a cross-body of a top rope, it's over.". Ever. It's not exactly Misawa's Tiger Driver 91. Really, the spot doesn't go beyond "get on the top, get tossed" line of thinking. Flair really didn't had much of anything in term of "game ender". Even the vaunted figure-four was more than usual reversed by the babyface. Flair really wasn't a "game ender" kinda worker. He was a "dumb bitch stealing victories by cheating" worker. Which made all of his charm too.

I actually remember this match and angle quite well, I was just becoming a wrestling fan at the time. And even back then, when I was 14, this made me uncomfortable. Of course I dind't had to listen to Vince's nonsense, but still, the whole angle was embarrassing enough. Actually, this might be the first time ever I was embarrassed to watch wrestling if my parents would be around. On the same topic, just watched a Steiner squash from October 90, with a "lebanese" jobber called Hassan Farruk (what else ?), who they call an "arab" of course, because people from Lebabon are the same thing as people from Irak or Iran, those are all arabs after all. And then after the finish, Ross says that Hassan must be thinking about his former career as a camel driver. Not racist at all...

"Souviens-toi du vase de Soisson !" Dumbass Stinger... Does 1990 rings a bell ?

Probably one of Foley's best promo ever. All-time classic.

The Dean character was just an albatros anyway. A wrestling teacher with a baby blue outfit with cheesy music.

The 04/01/96 match was a lot worse.

Hum... because he's the leader of the group and Cac is his flunky... Raven said about this interview (I think) that there was no way anyone could follow Cactus so it was useless for him to say anything.

I actually thought about that, I know Cornette pushed him pretty hard in Smokey. I was really wondering how that went. Well, I guess he's the kind of guy that would really gain from working under a hood. Give him a character he can work with only via body language, and he'll be fine and no one will see how bland he really is. What ? Star Blazer you say ? Ok, that was a fail.