Matt D

What's all of this? Shouldn't everyone be watching as much Franz Van Buyten as possible to try to decide if they're going to do a last second GWE edit before the deadline? (I'll watch NXT gleefully, the HOF, probably on tape delay, and will... you know, half watch Mania while doing other stuff). I'll catch some of Friday and Monday CMLL too, probably, and part of the Post-Mania Raw because those are fun).

I bet you'd like Clive Myers. Have you seen any Zoltan Boscik maybe? Did you watch any old Man Negro Navarro?

Been playing catch up, Just small comments though. I liked Lothario vs Brooks a lot. It was nice to see Jose a bit more towards the height of his power. He still framed the ring like he always does but he also took the fight to Brooks a bit more. Just more evidence towards the fact he was damn good. I wish there had been a minute or two more of Mike vs Gary Hart. I liked Lewin in it, at times not sure what to do in the face of what Hart was facing. Unfortunately, I don't think Hart's been helped hugely by this footage. You think of what Jimmy Hart or Bobby Heenan or Cornette might have done in that same situation. Conway vs Slatton was a lot of fun, just a good ten minute match. Conway comes at things from awkward angles at times, which is offputting in some ways, but worked for him. Slatton seemed to take the bumps in awkward ways too and Boesch was more than happy to point out how painful it looked. Fun, emotive heeling from Slatton. I wouldn't mind seeing more of him. He would have fit in perfectly in the Stud Stable.

Batista said no?

I could make so much money with Brazo de Plata

It'd be like An Idiot Abroad. "I have to go to the god damn Great Wall of China? Why?"

Because certain opponents didn't draw better against Hogan than others?

For a great entertainer, he's really such a terrible actor.

Kurt Angle #1.

He's right around 30 for me. The heel run hurts him though. We've had this talk.

So, I've been struggling with Villano III who I had on my draft list, but for reasons that felt like peer pressure. I had seen a bunch of his stuff but I just didn't feel like I had that 360 view I want if someone to have them on my list. He did not make my actual submission list. Because of the podcast, I looked at the Atlantis/Villano match again. I hadn't seen it since really the start of my lucha watching three years ago. Everything sort of clicked this time around (it was a sort of connective tissue of his range amongst other things). I decided that he had to be in there after all. I knocked out another "peer pressure" candidate to get him on. (I only had 2 on my list and both of them are gone now).

There's stuff on the periphery like the Zhukov match or some of the Freebirds stuff, but nothing really quite makes it in that regard. Though this came to mind too?

3 Hours of Raw is just too much?

He's on my list. Right above Wahoo.

I still think Bayley currently is in the "unique circumstances" category, even if she didn't start that way. I imagine Trips is taking care of her as they continue to become a touring brand. The story was that they did not get per show bonuses but that a select few were bumped up to around six figures. If not her, then who?

I'm hesitant to think Bayley isn't an exception at this point. I don't have the WONs with me, but I think there was talk back in August or September of 2015 that some specific NXT contracts were getting restructured to be much higher, which is without the usual road expenses (or they're much rarer) plus the perks offered at the Performance Center.

I think Bayley makes a different amount of money than than too. There was some talk that they were restructuring certain contracts as it became more of a touring brand, no?

I bet she does better on merch than Sasha.

She shouldn't get called up. She's a draw in NXT. They should run with that as far as they can.

It's clear that the New Day is getting the Smilin' Babyface Diesel treatment, and that's sad. The snake is eating its own tail.

I'm 2:30 or so in. I sort of ape the previous comments to some degree. First and foremost, this is a HARD thing to do. There's no way I could explain it to someone not in our circle, like my wife, because unless you're going through it, it's impossible to see how hard it is. And Tim is so damn reasonable and earnestly excited for almost every one of Steven's picks, whether or not he could have included them on his list. I think, if nothing else, it showed me how thoroughly different my list will be from Tim's or Chad's, and I think while it's off the wall bonkers in some ways, it's very consistent with itself and with the values it presents. And Tim's was as well so far, absolutely. As was Steven's. There are just different ways to tackle the question. That doesn't mean I wasn't a little frustrated listening though.

I'm sympathetic to that but i feel like it's fair game if someone brings up the: "Well, it DID play well with the demographic (and Dave Meltzer)." argument. Michael Bay is probably a better example.

Also, there is the fact we have seen him wrestle so often, debated him, got tired of the style. When I was thirteen The Marshall Mathers LP was the pinnacle of hip hop to me. Argued about it, played it all the time, quoted every song with my friends. Now I think it sucks, and would never think of putting it on. But it is probably me who has changed, not the record. I've heard different styles, got into rap from different eras, been exposed to more stuff, started to appreciate different things. It doesn't mean anything to me anymore. But it meant a ton at the time, so it must have something about it that makes it great or compelling or impactful, even if these days i don't care for it in the least. It is by that kind of rationale that Kurt Angle and Shawn Michaels make my list. Lower than the wrestling equivalents of Talib Kweli or Kendrick Lamar or Nas, but higher than someone like Vince Staples, even though I'm ten times more likely to listen to Vince Staples than Eminem. This is pretty much the most fitting analogy of my rap fandom and my wrestling fandom as I've ever read. I don't know whether or not my opinions were wrong in the past, but my opinions have changed drastically. I was 19 when the MMLP came out and I couldn't have been happier with it as an album. It was over the top, vulgar, and packed full of all types of bells and whistles. At the same time I was a big fan of ECW, WCW Cruiserweights, and Kurt Angle. All of those things were essentially the Marshall Mathers LP in a wrestling ring. I was at a point in my life where subtlety wasn't high on my list of priorities. I wanted my music and my wrestling to be "action packed." I don't think the value of those things should be discarded now that I'm older and appreciate different things. Angle is really good at the style he wrestles, despite the fact that I'm not much interested in that style any more. I have him on my list, because at the time in which he was having his most famous matches his style was greatly appreciated. Some things don't hold as well as others, but after reading through this thread it is clear that most of us loved his stuff as it happened. Should we throw things away, because they don't fit in our current view, when they were praised by their intended audience? Counterpoint: some of the most successful things in the world are pretty terrible but are still praised by their intended audience. Nickelback comes to mind. Nickelback always comes to mind. It's your call whether that's good art or not.

That could be more about skill in the utilization of steroids than in pro wrestling, mind you. That's a totally different list.

But not nearly as good at implementing matwork.