Matt D

I don't see anything inherently wrong with people disliking a match though. I came in figuring I probably wouldn't like it and I liked the front half a lot more than I was expecting, to the point where I thought I might actually like the whole thing. That I didn't like the back half was actively frustrating to me because I thought I'd be happily surprised. I won't talk for anyone else but I do have stylistic preferences and usually explain myself. I'm generally pretty consistent on what I like and why. Causality is a thing and one of my favorite things about this place is that people often back up what they say. People generally feel things and say things for a reason and it's very rarely just to get someone to make comments about them on twitter. I'm not even on Twitter. If you want to criticize someone's opinion, go for it, but not because someone else somewhere says someone's going to say something. I pretty much knew how Roger Ebert was going to respond to certain movies before i read his review because after reading a lot of his reviews, I knew what he liked and what he didn't. But that didn't mean I didn't still read his reviews. I found what he was going to say interesting and when it came to some things, like 3D movies that I knew he was against in general, I was especially interested, because if he actually liked how the 3D was used in a movie, then it was probably a sign that it was done very well and overcame a lot of his problems with it. Etc. If you want to post here, do it because you like interacting with the people here on wrestling, not because you want to battle people's stylistic preferences as part of some holy mission. That'll just lead you to bang your head against the wall and life is too short for that.

Billy Robinson's a great choice, especially when he was fighting the NWA champ (Was it Race in St. Louis?)

I don't think the achieved that ante-upping in a successful way. You do. The match lost me when I was into it earlier on. It didn't lose you. I'm glad you liked it. I ultimately didn't, though i thought Neville was very good in his role in the first half. I'm glad you're passionate enough to get spirited about it. I'm not.

Did Vince even watch it?

Watched Neville vs Balor finally and i really liked everything up to the pele kick and disliked everything after. The first half of the match was maybe the best I've seen Neville. Who knew that the best role for him was Crusierweight Bully.

Bock was one of the first people I was thinking too, but we really do have a lot. Mocho Cota is another. Maybe a bunch more Andre surfacing from the late 70s? More of prime Bob Orton would be a good one. I'd love to see more of the Ric Flair/Greg Valentine team.

My gut says that Arn is more versatile, but that Tully may be better at being one specific thing than Arn is at being any one thing.

I know they're played out but Parv would make a great evil authority figure.

Wasn't Slaughter the big indy scout during the Ross era?

I was on the phone so I didn't go into detail, but it's really a combination of them being in the system, and Connor WITH that gimmick for years, long predating HHH and the gimmick being tweaked slightly when they hit the main roster to make it even more painful. I don't think it was ever a positive part of NXT, mind you but I liked it more when it was Connor, Primo, and Eddy's daughter. I think, frankly, that they continued to get pushed almost to justify the time already put into them more than Triple H being super high on them or anything. They're not the people he talks about in interviews or on conference calls.

Ascension has been around in one form or another for years.

Bryan kicks out the Jim Breaks lock tonight, btw.

I don't know about how much the crowd was turned by the finish. I really don't. The ones who were already reacting to everything in an earnest way continued to act that way. Everyone else in the front was chanting "Z-PACK!" at the doctor when he came in and then bullshit when they thought the title wouldn't change hands due to the stoppage. Then they popped huge when it turned out that it would. It wasn't the match's fault, though. It's despite the amazing build and story and egregious because of it. Alternatively, I liked the 4-Way before listening to this but thought there might have been some suplex overkill, especially in the context of the night, but you guys sold me on that aspect.

Only saw the main. I have a hard time letting go when watching a concussion element to a match in 2015. It was very well executed though. The crowd hurt the match. It's one thing to boo a face, but cheering a heel who was so thoroughly presented as a heel against a face who was there because he was honestly wrong chafed. Owens so energetically taking Zayn's offense took me out of it a little bit too. I have to remember that Zayn isn't that small but given Owens size, there was something offputting about it. Part of that was the sort of bumps Zayn was taking early on and I thought they looked great and were actually appropriate, but maybe they set a physical framework to the match that made it harder for me to buy the way Zayn was throwing around Owens later. I liked it though, I did, but some things took me out of it.

Larry could use Baby Doll's incriminating blackmail material to make Dusty do it though

In that scenario, Rollins REALLY needs to cash in that night. That'd save the crowd.

Rikishi had name value during the attitude era, was a multi time tag champ, was an IC champ, has kids on the current roster to induct him, worked for the company for years. I don't have Chris Harrington's list in front of me, but I bet he's pretty high on the most WWF matches ever list. Probably in the top 50. He was there with something like four gimmicks too. I don't get the argument against him, frankly. Except for maybe the ass thing isn't something that the company wants to promote from a corporate level.

Drew McIntyred.

Fuck off no! Best wrestler ever at timing hope spots. I need to go watch all the Kid vs Yoko tag matches now since Yoko was the best wrestler ever at timing the cutting off of hope spots.

I'm not sure my position has changed wildly.

The difference, very much, is that the traditional sheet fan has gone from a minority, to a vocal minority, to a vocal minority who can strongly influence a crowd, in part due to the product being forced to aim towards a more niche product and the big shows like the Rumble and Mania being bought up by a lot of people willing to spend cash and travel as the real diehards.

Really, what it means is that they're going to have this problem from now on until they blatantly go against what the fans want in the face of this for long enough to teach the fans, once again, that they're not in control. My gut says that they're making the monster work and Vince just doesn't get that there's no appeasement anymore. I don't know whether I want to make a "terrorists win" analogy or a Chamberlain reference. I'll just leave it for people to decide on their own.

It's out there. I'd need to watch it again as i went through it quickly and with a lot of interruptions but my main feeling was that they really went at it, especially in the tercera, but the dynamic was a little weird with the crowd so behind Fuerza. I'm not sure if they planned for that. They didn't seem to commit on what route they'd go. There are moments where they had a lot of fun in a house-show sort of way that were great. There were moments where they did some really high end matwork and counters that were great. there were a few spirited exchanges which were great, but I don't think it all came together tonally. I'll be curious what other people think.

The answer to Cena in that case is to team him with Sting vs HHH/Show, which is a super match the casuals would go for. Sting is the god damn skeleton key this year.

With the crowd to come. tt's way better to have Bryan not in that match than to have him in the match and lose.