Matt D

Tons of Moves contrived around the ladder. I feel like the ladder is much more organic in the Goldust match. It's a match where they happen to have a ladder as a tool as opposed a match where the ladder is a gravitational centerpiece that changes the general logic of pro wrestling. The ladder as a means as opposed the ladder as an end unto itself, basically. I haven't seen the Summerslam match in forever, though, so I'll admit that might not be the case as much there.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xo3qb0_goldust-vs-shawn-michaels-world-title-ladder-match-8-24-96_sport I still like the Goldust ladder match, probably more than Shawn's other ladder matches but that's because there's less stupid shit.

I still think they dropped the ball not doing a Network-Only one night tournament for the title before MITB after Bryan went down (they had a saturday house show that it could have worked at). Or at least King of the Ring exclusive on the network in June or something. The former was almost a kismet moment for them to capitalize on a negative in a strong way.

It's pretty striking to compare people's feelings back in February about how this year would go for WWE to now. the TV deal was a disaster that most people didn't expect. They were supposed to sail on that and use it to cover any danger of the network transition.

I have a feeling that there's not a single person in Titan Towers who are thinking that a lack of old territory content has anything to do with the numbers being low.

I see it advertised on facebook and websites all the time.

So someone raised him as the worst wrestler ever. Let's find out. We'll keep these quick. HTM vs Bam Bam Bigelow - PTW - May 9, 1988 Lots of stalling, working the crowd. He does it with a lot of energy though.I really like the way he doesn't just leave the ring every time Bam Bam advances, but he dives out in a big way. I have a feeling a lot of his IC title matches are going to be heavily focused on being a vulnerable champ. Lots of heel in peril. It's a bit more tolerable for a mid card heel, but it might get old, no matter how passionately he dives out of the ring. I think his selling/bumping is actually pretty good, way better than I was expecting. There's not much chance to show offense here and the finish is pretty weak with a last second countout win set up to give Bigelow a phantom victory by hitting his outside in splash just a little too late that felt a bit fabricated. Weird announce team here. Just Heenan and Hayes. HTM vs Ken Patera - Boston Garden - May 2, 1987 The crowd was super hot for this. Patera replaces the recently injured (On SNME by Kamala and HTM) Roberts who came out to announce it. He comes out with Damien too. Fans go nuts for him though and he seems to really appreciate it. He just chucks HTM across the ring with slams and Honky sells it like death. Different sort of stalling here. He doesn't dive through the ropes so much as he heads halfway through. There's arm work, first by Patera, with some good shine offense though it goes a bit long, relatively, and then, after a missed corner charge, by Honky on Patera. Unfortunately, neither guy sells it after it's over, even though Honky mocks a sell of Jake's arm. The best part of the match is how Patera positions HTM in an armbar in the corner of the ring repeatedly so that Jake can push the bag at him. Nice comeback with Patera tied up in the ropes but getting out while Honky is taunting Jake. Pretty decent finish for a match like this with Patera getting the bear hug, Hart going up on the apron, HTM cheating to get out but Jake catches his leg off the rope and Patera hits an elbow for the win. Post match they ALMOST get him with the snake while in a full nelson. Solid match that would have been actively good if they made the armwork mean just a little more. HTM vs Mr. X - MLG - Nov 16, 1986 Everyone has to watch this match. It's a lot of fun. This was just after the Honky vote results and he came out like a total face and the crowd wanted nothing to do with it. He slowly started to slip into more and more heel mannerisms and moves as the match went on. Meanwhile, Mr. X continued to wrestle like a total heel, just eyeraking over and over again, but he's more and more over with the crowd as they go. He's just flabbergasted as an "x" chant starts and it's amazing. Totally amazing. Eventually it lulls him into this crazy sense of flair and he tries for a springboard splash (in 86, in WWF; not even a slingshot, a full out springboard), misses, and eats the Shake Rattle and Roll for the loss. Honky's pissed at the fans post match. Everyone has to go see it. The crowd was great. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC_uR3AnIWk

FWIW my point wasn't that Honky is one of the worst ever, just that at least in WWF he was worse than Beefcake. I'm still not convinced. Maybe Rhythm and Blues Honky vs Dream Team Beefcake but that's not entirely a fair comparison, and frankly, I'd have to watch footage to decide and i'm not sure I want to do it. I do feel like HTM is someone who hasn't had a proper reevaluation since the metrics shifted a bit over the last few years. Again, I'm not sure I want to do it but I don't think anyone else is going to. To me it feels like the main arguments against HTM are: 1.) Conventional Wisdom from an earlier age. 2.) The fact he didn't like to bump. 3.) The fact that he's wasn't Ricky Steamboat/Randy Savage and didn't work their more action-packed style. That's not to say he was good or his matches were good (I don't know), but when I look at someone and see those as the main strikes against him, that raises a red flag to me. They're very much 1998 metrics.

Tugboat had a great big splash, that really cool single underhook headlock suplex thing. and was more than competent showing vulnerability during the 92 Natural Disasters babyface run, and on the flipside pretty good in their squash matches. Not a great wrestler by any means, but I don't think he rates here. I think Honky would only count in something like this if someone cared only about workrate.

How much Jet Set footage exists?

I'd rather watch Khali or Kurrgan anyday. Guys like Rocky Mountain Thunder have at least a trainwreck level of entertainment.

Who is this superhero?

Bill, I will watch TWO (2) matches that highlight this aspect that you want me to watch, sometime in the next month. Name them.

Actually, they should put Hunter in. It'll make the PPV feel a little more special but protect him since it'll be in a multiman tag. Also, you know, depth issues.

I'm kind of excited for a Survivor Series main event that's an elimination tag, actually. The difference is that Hell in a Cell is much more of a definitive feud ender while Survivor Series (With few exceptions like Hogan vs Quake) is more of a feud continuer.

That makes sense (and is pretty funny). Out of context, that was really baffling. Thanks!

Yeah, look Bill, you're way off base with this. Thatcher is totally wasted in these Indy Mat Style Whatevers. He's such a great dick heel and he can implement all of his holds and selling and what not while still bowing to the fans to piss them off and stalling outside of the ring and just being a total ass. He's wasted as the stoic whatever. The Demon match is so much fun. It's from this year too so he's still doing the dick heel thing when he's not stuck in gyms surrounded by Briscoes or whatever. I wasn't expecting Demon to give him much but he really did and it was great. There was maybe less of an overarching story to this than I would have liked. It was pretty back and forth and at times Thatcher actually looked a bit clunky on some exchanges (especially one into a crucifix pin and a few "spin me around" type moves) but in general, he moved in and out of Demon's stuff really well and had some great, hard-earned counters too. Tons of kids in the crowd which added to things as well, even if they were chanting MEX-I-CO to get behind Demon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRDizPipD6w Ok, why the heck did the crowd start laughing at poor Smiley when he tried to put that leglock on. Even Fujiwara seemed a bit baffled (if not amused) by it.

I watched the Breaks vs Bobby Ryan match with Ryan as part of the TV All Stars (he had a 6 on his back). My second Breaks match and my first Ryan one and probably a bad choice to start with but I really liked it. It was sort of a textbook case of how to work a hold and work a hold and work a hold and then have that hold payoff only to lead into a great finish that you can only get in a match with multiple falls. I love how Breaks moves around the ring and how he bumps. He just flings himself, but he's so consistent about it and the setting is so foreign to me that it really works.

Has any wrestler in the history of wrestling had more opportunity to have quality matches on tape?

I'm pretty sure we'll get Austin vs Rock, Austin vs HHH, HHH vs Rock, Undertaker vs Shawn, Undertaker vs Kane, Vince vs Austin, HHH vs Foley, Taker vs Mankind, Cena vs Edge, Cena vs Orton, HHH vs Orton, Hogan vs Andre, Hogan vs Savage, Hogan vs Sting, Flair vs Sting, Hogan vs Flair before we get anything more interesting. We're looking at season 3 before they start "scraping"

Hey, I caught about half the show. I was putting my kid to sleep, making bread for the week, watching a Stan Hansen match. I caught what I wanted to. I mostly enjoyed what I caught. I avoided what I didn't. That's how I generally do it. I don't watch wrestling I don't think I'll like in real time very often. I got a kick out of the way they put together the main, even if it's not how I WANTED them to or how I thought they should. i have managed expectations when it comes to a cage match in 2014 WWE. So I appreciated it for the most part. What I don't appreciate is the general tone you took at the beginning towards people who felt differently than you, people who had reached a general consensus through discussion, who had listed their thoughts and the reasons behind it. What you said just now was patronizing but at least you put on an air of care and concern. That was cute. In general, while I think people who sit through three hours of Raw, live, every week, when they know they're going to hate it, maybe should be finding something else to do with their time, I think I've got slightly more concern for people who are so deep into their own bullshit that they can't begin to make the effort to sympathize with others and see where they're coming from, even after they've listed their views. That doesn't do us any good here. I know you feel like you've earned the right to be here and spew that stuff and be self-righteous about it, but it doesn't do anyone any good. When you have an interview with someone we like, we'll be glad to help you crowdsource questions; likewise when you have an article you want some help with or you want to show to us. Otherwise, try to show people some respect, huh? It doesn't cost you anything, except for maybe robbing you of the endorphin kick you get for feeling right and better than people on the internet.

They could use action figures for a visual demonstration. Or a Malenko like in the early 90s.

I don't think it's falling for it. It's just not being used to it because most people here are pretty earnest and anyone who acts like that gets banned pretty quickly, no matter who he was friends with in 1998 or if he has 500,000 people reading his stuff.

There's a difference between disagreeing with people, even passionately, and insulting them. You would do well to learn it.