Matt D

I think I just gave some reasoning there, but like I said, this isn't really worth the time. The guy isn't worth the time. He was given rules. He was given warnings. He was given chances. He refused to follow the spirit of it. I thought that Charles' decision was both warranted as part of a greater whole and probably something that should have been done a while ago. I'm moving on. I've got a lot of Giant Baba to watch apparently.

Whatever spurious inside information he might have had was really not worth the "Well, I don't know how much of this is public, and I probably shouldn't say anything, BUUUUUUUT" Look-At-Me-And-What-I-Know bs that he tossed out at every chance. I'll take a JVK vs JDW derailing over that anyday. We're better off without him, easily. I don't think there's much more to say here. Let's get back to talking about Jerry Brisco.

Surprising to just about no one: 1.) I've got very few problems with Dylan's list. 2.) I'm not going to be watching any New Japan anyway, except for maybe that Styles match. I am less high on the Thatcher/Gulak Evolve match. I haven't seen the CZW match. I could probably find a few Ingobernales trios I like more than the former though, at least. I much prefer dickish bitching heel Thatcher to highly technical and very serious Thatcher. I'm not convinced on Cavernario yet but that's why I'm going through a ton of his stuff on Segunda Caida right now.

It's the internet. Actions have consequences. All we have here is how we present ourselves over time. That's it. It's why people think I'm a logic-only robot when it comes to the stuff I like sometimes. It's why he ended up in a situation where it wasn't wholly unreasonable to think that he was taking a generalizing potshot. When you get your last chance, you use it more carefully and watch what you say or you get what you get because people will assume the worst. I don't think this is rocket science.

So the problem is that Al Capone got caught on tax evasion?

The difference between Rovert and Joe and Rich is that Rovert has a history of being banned other places, usually for doing the same sort of things he did here or worse. I think we can bring up the posts where he was warned. This wasn't one incident or overnight. Frankly, given his behavior and personality and unwillingness to even seem to understand compromise, let alone actually do it, I think it's a more welcoming website without him. At the end of the day, this is Charles and Will's place, and I know that if I broke their rules repeatedly and without remorse, I'd get canned. It's happened to friends of mine too for doing exactly that. I think they're pretty fair and consistent and that's part of why we have such a high level of discourse here.

Really, most CMLL trios are either an A-B-A (shine-beatdown-comeback) format or a B-A-C (beatdown-comeback-reset) one. The value isn't necessarily in variation so much as it's in how deeply they build anticipation for the comeback and how well they pay it off, or in how fun the work is in either the primera or the tercera depending on where most of the sequence is.

I should say more but I have to point out on the promo for the Clash that you guys played, they mention Steiner vs Luger, Sting (the Living Legend) vs Rude, and then "ALSO: Van Hammer and PN News." The only other two guys mentioned. I've spent part of last week working on a document to sell something to another department and figuring out what they want so we can highlight that. I can almost assure you that someone in the marketing/production team was trying to figure out what the highers up wanted there. Also, remember, 2013 Dolph Ziggler = 91 Van Hammer according to Parv.

Watching you write up the late 1999 WWF stuff, I'm sort of disappointed that there's not 2000 coming to see what you think of the "prime HHH" period.

It was really blatant to me. Laughably blatant. Other opinions?

Thanks Charles. I'm glad you liked it. It's nice to try to synthesize some of the thoughts we've developed over the years in discussion here.

holy hell

I think that is a double edged sword though in all honesty. Current matches can benefit AND be hindered by having the context around it AND having a bunch of people communicating about it over the interweb during real time. An older match tends to lack both.Well at least it does for me. Case-in-point: Just watched Steve Viedor vs Gwyn Davies. Only seen one Viedor match and nothing of Davies. All I knew was that it was a championship bout. This match completely latched on to me emotionally as if I were watching a 20+ minute Rocky Balboa fight. Stylistically there were a few things that were jarring but emotionally, something that doesn't tend to happen to me these days, I was overwhelm in the best of ways. Now, it is hard to give an example of a match that was poorly viewed during the time but aged and was viewed better cause I've probably never went back to watch those but I like to believe the point still holds some water. I was buzzing over that match for days after I watched it. I know I'm one of the youngest guys on the forum, but you do guys still have vocal reactions to matches? If I'm watching a match I'm really into, it's completely normal for me to let out a "Woo!" for a stiff shot or "Let's Fucking Go!" for a great baby face comeback. It just makes me enjoy it that much more if I treat it like a real sporting event. On an emotional level, I do think there's huge a difference between watching something as its happening and something from twenty years ago. I got in trouble back during something in the last couple of years (Maybe Brock vs Punk?) because I was watching it downstairs while it was happening and I vocally let out a "Come on!" and the baby, upstairs (and she had to be just over 1 if it was that summerslam), thought I was talking to her and started to get upset at the baby gate because she couldn't get to me. As for note taking, I do it if I'm going to write up a match for a project, or segundacaida. I used to write down every single thing that happened in the sort of stream of consciousness real-time reviews that I did for things like the Buddy Rose matches. Now I do bullet points with key transitions/cool things to note or that I want to remember. You can see a more detailed version of what those look like in the first DVDVR remedial wrestling thread. Ideally, I'd watch a match once and then watch it again, taking notes, but i just don't have that sort of time right now. If I'm not going to write up a match, I won't take notes. I've never in my life taken notes of something that was happening live like a PPV or Raw.

Judy Martin vs Bambi, WCW Saturday Night... right before Halloween Havoc 91. I'm too lazy to get the date on this, but i went looking for funny Monsoon/Heenan PTW stuff on Monsoon Classic and he had just posted this a couple of days ago, so there you go. This was all to build up Madusa as she'd attack the winners, right before the birth of the Dangerous Alliance. Bambi's billed from Stone Mountain GA and she was a pretty good fiery babyface, taking it right to Martin from the get go. Martin sold pretty big around the ring, eating nice enough strikes. She was older now, but still a presence. When she went on offense she proceeded to hit an awesome dropping headbutt to the abdomen, a great heave off of a fireman's carry into a front drop sort of thing(like Warrior's gorilla press but from a fireman's carry and forward not back) and this insane snap suplex that was like a snap brainbuster. The foot choking and hair pulling and what not was used sparingly and well timed to argue with the ref and draw heat. Bambi had a pretty good comeback off of a missed corner charge after a few hope spots/cut offs but then they veered into a confusing Bambi chinlock and sort of stumbled to a finish a minute or two too late. Martin still had it though and she'd added some just brutal offense over the years.

I think if you get to that point, you stop enjoying wrestling for what you enjoy it for. I'm not going to go to the theater and watch the Dumb and Dumber sequel this weekend. Lots of people will. They'll enjoy it. I suppose on some level I can appreciate WHY they are enjoying it, but I'm good, really. Same with whatever Izzy Azalea song is really popular right now (I kind of love Shake it Up as a pure pop song so I'm not arguing that). I can't shut my brain off in any aspect of my life, not watching a movie, not reading a book, not for a single thing. It drives me nuts sometimes, but it's who I am. There's no zen to wrestling watching and there's no universal standard for what's good. I enjoy interacting with it and it's easier for me to do that on an intellectual/analytic level than a more emotional one (not that I don't ever get drawn in that way; it's just even when I do, I'm still trying to figure out what makes it tick). i think the issue here isn't letting go, it's a positivity/negativity issue. I have a finite amount of time to watch wrestling and in that time I don't generally watch a lot of stuff I think I'll hate or even dislike. I don't think you see a lot of reviews like that one that began this thread on this board. We might dislike a match that we watch as part of a larger project but we're probably disliking it in relation to a lot of matches that we dig a ton. I'm not generally going to watch a show just to rip it apart.

If I didn't have a lot of fun watching wrestling, I wouldn't do it.

They hit each other really hard. That's all it takes for some people apparently. The only thing I really like about the match is how it feels like Bock came in with a gameplan, but he's like that in every match.

Really, there's only one top notch WWE source left in this cold, harsh world.

I think there can be a middle ground between the two, though. Honestly, a lot of the Honky Tonk Man matches I was revisiting recently had just that.

Rey Bucanero looked like he was about to break out in the 2006 CMLL I watched. That really didn't happen.

Did we ever find out what the original plans were?

Current Favorite Wrestler to Watch: In this moment, Judy Martin, but it changes by the hour. Last Fun Match You Saw: I watched the Usos vs Gold and Star cage match tonight and "Fun" would be a really good way to describe it. They used the cage well and they smartened up the escape rules and while it was a lot of what we've seen before out of them, i kind of liked the cage preventing the Usos from doing their dives if that makes any sense. It made things feel a little fresher even if the finish could have been hotter. Wrestler You Want to See More of: Jim Breaks! And Fujiwara. But Jim Breaks. Last Live Show Attended: Still 2004. BUT I am going to the Rumble. That was a hell of a negotiation with my wife but I am going to the Rumble with WAY too good seats. Excited for that. Match You Are Looking Forward to Watching Soon the Most: I'm a sucker for classic Survivor Series matches, but I also am looking forward to seeing some of Judy Martin in Japan that we have. Last Fun Interview/Promo You Saw: I saw a CWF promo with Jos Le Duc showing off the lumberjack title and Don Muraco showing off his hair tonight. Last Interesting Thing You Read about Wrestling: Chris answered a question of mine on his blog and I thought that came out very interesting: http://indeedwrestling.blogspot.com/2014/10/did-smackdown-usher-in-era-of-even.html (also, thanks Tim) Last Worthwhile Wrestling Podcast You Heard: I've mainly been listening to old Johnny Dollar serials on my commute so by default it almost has to be WTBBP for Halloween Havoc. Most Fun You've Had Watching Wrestling Lately: That Honky Tonk Man vs Mr. X match was a blast. Also, I'm two matches into Hector Garza's 2010 and he's a lot of fun to watch.

I needed to watch this even though we don't have much of it, just for historical value. This was round 1 of a Tag Tournament for $12K. Here's the Slam article on it, though I'd skip the write up of the match where they really extrapolate too much from the clips we have. The framing information is good enough. From what we see, it was sort of interesting for the time. I think Grable and Martin had been built up pretty heavily as heels and that showed here. They were heel aggressors using every advantage they had even if they were severely overpowered. It probably would have been a fun thing to see in whole.

What the heck is the UN title? I love the idea of a UN title. You could take it to the south and play up that you're a heel who's going to come in and take everyone's guns away to get heat. The babyface could be The Mountain Militia Man who's going to rename the belt the Backwoods Moonshine Championship if he wins.

i don't think they've even officially announced it on TV yet.