Matt D

I'm a bit disappointed you didn't photoshop page 20 into the mirror. backwards.

I want to do a pithy compare/contrast with this and your uncomfortable disdain of Kamala, but I can't be damned. Sorry, Parv. You deserve more effort than that.

Doubtful. Bock vs Wahoo is my biggest "I don't get it?" match of the AWA set where most everyone else praises it and I felt it was just ok really. Have you listened to the podcast where they watch it? If not, it may be informative for you.

So what are you saying he not then, John? The GOAT? Or more to the point, what are people saying that he is that you disargee with?

It is however, one reason I tend to care about things other than "great matches."

As for Bock, there's a difference between stiff and intense. That said, I don't think neither Wahoo vs Bock or Bock vs Hansen are as good as everyone else say. I'll probably have Bock vs Wahoo lower than anyone, though it's still barely cracking my top 50, I think.

Actually, I'll dial back and pretty much agree with this. It's a tool. Blood's a tool. Headdroppy offense is a tool. Legwork is a tool. Selling is a tool. Facial expressions are a tool. Jawing with the crowd is a tool. Wonky no-selling can be a tool. Stiffness is a tool. It's just not a tool I tend to care for relative to the other tools available. That's subjective. Objectively, it's a tool and like anything else, what really matters how it's used. It's just sure as hell not an end in and of itself. It's a means. Like any of the other tools listed. I think it's a terribly uninteresting tool.

I checked out a while ago.

It's never necessary. And it's a shortcut. And a pretty imagination-less one.

Verne Finishes. Is this a staple for most heel-driven promotions from the era?

Stiff chops suck. Wrestling is fake.

The magic bullet for 84 AWA is Greg turning heel.

And the god damn Chavo vs Kane match from Backlash which I can never convince anyone to watch but shows just how great Chavo was in 08. The first half of 08 does stand up, though the Punk matches really don't as well as you'd think.

Owen's Jam Slam was awesome. Mitch Snow would be proud.

Snuka vs Rose - January(?) 1978 I love the stalling in this because there's a level of cowardly desperation you never see from the usual suspects. Rose just DIVES out of the ring at top speed to get away. When we finally get in the ring we get lots of Snuka athleticism (Which is a little more impressive in 78 than a few years later) and Rose eating a bunch of arm drags and rope running for him. Rose does such great little things. He'll get a "hope" spot, by subtly grabbing the hair. He doesn't get an edge up on Snuka without some little factor working into it. He's so good at both showing ass and seeming devious. Or being devious and THEN showing ass. Snuka does a surprisingly good job really wrenching the arm and Rose makes him look like a million bucks in the selling. This is basically a comedy match where Rose keeps getting a leg up only to get immediate comeuppance. It climaxes with Rose tossing Snuka off the ropes when he goes for the Superfly splash too early only to get tossed off himself a moment later. i thought for sure that was going to be a transition so it was a funny, surprising moment. They pull the real transition a minute later with Snuka missing a cross body, though at this point there's only two minutes remaining on the time limit. Rose hits a lot of offense quickly but still sells the earlier punishment. He's really selling everything Snuka does here too, whether it be a kick out or a snap roll up. It makes everything have more meaning in this setting. Snuka takes back over and keeps trying to go for a finish whether it be the full nelson or a cradle, but the time runs out. This isn't what i'd rank against other more competitive matches as a great match, but Rose and Snuka basically did everything that they were supposed to and they did it well and it had exact effect it was supposed to which was to whet the crowd's appetite for the Buddy/Ed vs Snuka/Ventura match on tuesday.

Someone should totally do a Million Dollar Man gimmick.

The Black Bart one sort of highlights what drives me nuts about these. "So did Vince ever make any promises to you he didn't keep?" "So, the Von Erichs sure liked to party a lot, huh?" "What did you feel when Brody died?"

I'm just saying that it's tricky to say that he was best as a wrestler when he was a rookie being led around by Jerry Lawler. I'd probably be better if I was led around by 1986 Jerry Lawler in a big program tomorrow with no training than if I had a few years of experience and was wrestling someone else. Yeah, that doesn't impact the 94 match or the level of effort or lack of such later. Now I 100% admit that I use the same argument about Michaels when it comes to Rose/Somers (and later Eadie or Arn/Tully) leading him around relative to Michaels' later career where he had much more control over his matches. I just think that a green guy having the best match of his career vs 1986 Jerry Lawler doesn't mean that he might not have grown into a better wrestler later, even if he doesn't necessarily have a better match than that first one.

I honestly think the "best matches as a rookie" argument is kind of goofy in this case. I think if he had been able to work Lawler for 17 minutes in Memphis in 1993 they would have had a better match. It's an opportunity thing.

Bam Bam vs Tatanka - Royal Rumble 1994 Tatanka had a really crummy 1993, so this surprised me with how good it was. Most of the main problems were with his lack of selling. It has a really fun structure though. It starts with Tatanka trying to get Bam Bam off of his feet with Bam Bam giving just the right amount until he gets knocked down. He takes over fairly quickly with the hope spots are based off of Tatanka trying to hit top rope moves and failing. Bammer's offense looks good and is varied. Standout are the corner splash and his jumping clap kick. We get a mid match bear hug which looks okay but Tatanka doesn't sell well, especially after he fights out. Both guys hit body blocks on each other which looks really good. Then we get the war dance but Bam Bam cuts it off with an awesome kick to the back of the head. Great visual and sort of startling cut off. Bam Bam misses the moonsault which I'm not sure I've seen him do in WWF up until this point, and Tatanka hits a top rope flying body press to bring the earlier structural stuff full circle. Not a great match but very good and much better than I was expecting.

Wiskwoski/Rose vs Mayne/Bass - 2/3 falls - 12/3/77 All I saw was the third fall and the post match but man it's awesome. It starts with Rose and Ed dissecting Bass' back (presumably they had just gotten the second fall with the Robinson backbreaker; that's how these often go). Bass is really good at making things look like a fight. He gets the hot tag and Mayne gets opened up on the outside after his crazy corner bump. They REALLY target the wound. REALLY target. Wiskowski hits something like seven falling headbutts in a row and eventually they get DQed for hitting the ref during a double team. After that it totally breaks down with all four guys killing each other AND the refs (one of which being Dutch Savage so he fights back). It ends with Savage holding up the belts and Buddy cutting a great promo talking about how he's catching his own blood in his hands. This sets up a final match where the losers leave. I also saw a bloody Moondog chewing on glass. Wiskowski/Rose vs Skip Young/Snuka 2/3 falls 12/10/77 This is non title. A lot of great heel teamwork on Young. Good southern style stuff. Rose and Wiskowski were really a force here. The ref would look away for a second and that's all the time they'd need to do something heinous. Young comes back with some real fancyfoot work to take a fall. The second fall has a hot tag to Snuka and him doing his thing before picking up the win with a full nelson. Post match has Ed being a pretty dull racist heatseeker Rose being a quick on his feet racist heatseeker.

Can't say he doesn't explain himself though. It's not magic contrarianism or anything.

I really liked this match. I liked how the shine was kept pretty minimal but had some really flashy stuff that stood out so it made it seem more distinct without turning into heel in peril territory. I liked how there was a double FIP. Kid and Marty made the Quebecers look like a thousand bucks. I'm okay with the Marty FIP because they really fill it with a lot of good hope spots and somehow they're more effective due to the relative brevity of the Kid FIP if that makes sense. I think the match is plenty heated due to the natural dickishness of the Quebecers which comes through in their offense and the fire of Kid and Jannetty. Maybe the hope spots are layered a bit unevenly. That'd be my only criticism. They come frequently early on with Jannetty and then taper out for a while, but that actually makes sense as he's picking up damage. Then it really picks up again. There's basically three acts to the Marty FIP and that's kind of cool even if probably unintentional. Great hot tag with the crowd coming unglued. Kid was great in his role. You get feeling from how the heels dominate throughout the match, especially with the lack of HIP that the heels are going to lose, too. Jannetty's presence right before the finish was a little weird. He should have kept on selling the impact of the beating or something. Or gotten taken out by a cheap shot. That's the only thing which really hurts the match for me. Very good.

Rose vs Lonnie Mayne 2/3 Falls Nov 19, 1977. I really like this first fall. Mayne follows up on what Bass did and is really dogged on Buddy's arm. But he loses focus being a moondog and all, allowing Buddy to take over working on Lonnie's arm. Lonnie gets him to the outside and takes back over as it's his natural habitat. He gets Buddy back in and hits the bombs away for the fall. It's straightforward stuff but really well worked. Second fall has the turnbuckle fall apart creating a fun aura of craziness, which lets Buddy take over. There's a bit of a KOTM with Buddy not letting Mayne back in. He wears him down with some pretty good looking offense until he hits the Billy Robinson backbreaker for the pin. After the fall, Buddy keeps on Mayne until Sandy Barr (the ref) tries to stop him. Buddy nails him leading to reversed decision. Buddy keeps punishing Mayne until Bass runs in. What I think we're getting from this the most is how great a TV wrestler Buddy was at this time. He wasn't just doing this but he was doing it week in and week out setting up arena matches, carrying on feuds through his ring work, and wrestling some very different opponents.