Matt D

That would be a great movie. The mayor requests equal time so the sports radio channel offers to give him his own show.

I was kind of hoping the spear would help take him over the top.

I don't want to talk about how I felt when Russo/Ferrara jumped.

ECW was literally the only TV that I went out of my way to watch live in 09. In fact, I REALLY went out of my way to see the Regal vs Christian match from the UK because it was that much of a big deal at the time.

We have people here who are some of the strongest proponents of the WWE ECW on the internet. We also have people here who put together and/or participated in huge and lofty original ECW projects. Therefore, I'm putting it to the board, which of the two had more high end matches? What was better?

I'd rather watch a Sid match than a Brody match. That's not to say a Sid match would innately be better, but I'd probably find more to be amused by.

I started to think I was wrong about the Monsoon/Polo team. Guess what. I'm not. It's hilarious. Heenan riles Monsoon but Polo pokes at him in completely different ways. Watch this pretty middling (after a rough start) Tatanka/Bam Bam match and tell that me the stuff where Levy asks Monsoon about the longest match he ever had isn't absolutely hilarious. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7jyrf_ta...m-bigelow_sport

I haven't noticed this nearly as much with Punk in the back half of this year.

Everyone was really high on buff in 97 after he did some Japan tours (DEAN loves him in those old workrate reports). I don't know how well that stuff has aged though

I know wrestling isn't real but try picturing Funk going unhinged and attacking meltzer for laughing at him like he did the ring attendant in his 80s WWF debut for not being careful enough with his hat.

1982's Davey Richards.

Nord Claims that Brody and he were about to come in to WWF as a team when he died. They asked Hansen about that and he didn't seem to know about it but also said that Brody would do business if that was the case since he was a business man.

I have a hard time getting emotional involved in any match that isn't going on in the present. I think it's some personal flaw. I'm sure if I watched 90s AJPW I'd be able to get involved since I have so little idea who wins matches and who loses matches when, so it'll all be a complete surprise to me. In general, though, even the best match can't always pull me in. Sometimes it manages it. But I'm like that with most forms of media. If I'm reading a book I might be 30% engaged and 70% looking at the mechanics of how the author is trying to pull off what he's trying to pull off. I tend to think a lot more about writing than I do things like cinematography when watching a movie, but it's rare that I'm focused on the characters more than the structure and the nuts and bolts of the storytelling. So I watch for other reasons. I also don't see wrestling as sport but as art, and enjoy it as that level. There's not a ton of rooting for me. I think I mark out more for a cleverly executed spot or ... and yeah, it's embarrassing, but I get honestly excited when a guy sells exactly when i want him to. Dibiase made sure to briefly sell the arm when he got back on offense in the Taylor match I saw and I loved it. That's all little bits though. Here's the main point. For me, I like watching a wrestler over time and a wrestler in context. I like watching whole shows within whole years. I like seeing all the promos leading up to a match and how match #1 can build to match #2 and match #3. I like the whole package. So that's context. When it comes to a specific wrestler, I like seeing how they deal with different challenges, with different opponents with matches that are trying to tell a different emotional story. I like to see how they deal with wrestling a 5 minute TV match to set up a feud as opposed to a 20 minute arena blow off gimmick match. I like to see how they handle a transition against guy a lot bigger than them and how they make a guy a lot smaller than them look credible but not so credible that the size difference doesn't matter. One thing i very rarely do is put up a candidate for GOAT. There's just to much I haven't seen. If I saw everything in the world, however, I still think I would tout "getting it" and performing better than anyone else in every situation they were put in over having a number of matches that are the greatest matches of all time. Honestly, very little of what any wrestler is called upon to do is to have a MOTYC.

Is Bubba Fangman a redneck vampire?

I watched some stuff. I made some concessions. More so than most of the other people in the note. I still think the biggest issue is to look at his babyface work before the black glove came on since that's when he got the classification in the first place and what I saw in the one Patterson match I watched made it seem like it was a real possibility. I'm pretty much done with this. Other people can absolutely look though. My gut says that in jobber matches where Ted has a heck of a lot less to give up, he's going to be the punch/stomper with a few power moves that we remember him to be.

In Mid South there was more of the sense that he was a heel technician who took liberties INSTEAD of doing technical STUFF. In WWF there's not even that. Either way, he was a heel technician who didn't have technical offense. Tully Blanchard is a much better example of a heel technician who started out trying to do technical stuff and got out matched, at which point he resorted to the cheating and dirty fighting. Ted was punching and ambushing from the get go.

I'm still blanking. I think he needs to write a few more.

Ok so I Watched the Taylor/Dibiase match (I'm pretty sure it was the one from the mid south set, the bait and switch with the Nightmare match), and Dibiase is a shitty, shitty technician in the match, even while JR is going on about how he is one. The story of the first half of the match is that Taylor is a far superior wrestler and Dibiase takes back over when he gets a cheap punch in the corner. When he takes over it's all punches, stomps, chokes on the rope, chokes, clotheslines. The one time he tries even a little bit of arm work early on, Taylor reverses it quickly. When he tries a hip toss, Taylor reverses it into a backslide. He does a quick knee breaker out of nowhere to get the figure four on, but that's really IT. Even the figure four Taylor reverses andthen he starts on leg work of his own before Dibiase pulls out the knucks. But what they sell him as is someone who knows a lot of moves and can execute them, and someone who can make tactical moves at key times. But that has a mean streak. And someone who can do all the moves which is why it's such a shame he uses the tactics he does. I guess, if I was going to say from a working point of view what he was here, it's someone who can work well AGAINST a technician. He eats all the 80s babyface arm offense well. He helped make Taylor look really good, going so far as to really stretching out the knucks shot that ended it with a few near misses all due to Taylor's "prowess." For Herc vs Dibiase I picked a January 1989 MSG match, which is probably deep into the feud so they've been around the loop. It's a Virgil-banned-from-ringside match. Dibiase sells Herc's punches so well. Herc has these cool stalking clotheslines and okay, no, I'm not doing play by play here. Just to the point. Dibiase makes it to the ropes in a clever way with his feet going over the top to break the early full nelson. Again, Dibiase is making his opponent look like a million bucks but there's nothing technical about Hercules. The transition is Dibiase grabbing a hold of the trunks from a prone position and tossing Herc out. When he takes over it's a bunch of strikes, slams,stomps and shots on the outside. This is clipped and when we come back, Herc is fighting out of what looks to be a chinlock. Herc gets a flash small package reversal out of a slam attempt but Dibiase gets up first and stomps. Finish is a series of corner clotheslines by Hercules with Dibiase ducking under the last one and doing a double leg shoot and putting his feet up on the ropes. Ok, here is the concession I'll make. Dibiase is a technician in this one way. He's portrayed as a wrestler with great ring savvy and ring positioning, who can turn the tide at a moment's notice and take advantage of a situation. From a kayfabe perspective I can buy that to an extent. It seems to most show up in his transitions and his finishes. I Could see other wrestlers calling him one because he's so good at bumping and stooging and selling the importance and emotional impact of a move, and I suppose that could be considered a technical element of wrestling? But that's all you get, Von Kramer. His heel offense sure as hell isn't "technical" by any definition of the term.

Different matches on the card have different purposes. Generally. That's a generally minor part of my mindset though. But I've got an attacking six month old here, so I am going to let other people chime in. I've said my thoughts a million times, but I can focus them here, certainly. I think I'm the minority not you though, if that helps! Honestly, I'm just glad you people put up with me most of the time.

Can we just stop and make a blanket statement here?

Now we're going all over the place. The WWF match up I actually want to look at is against Hercules. They feuded for a while and he physically can't do some of the things he did with smaller babyfaces with Hercules. I think that'll be telling. As for mid-south, I need to think what I want to see. Maybe vs Terry Taylor?

I watched the first Patterson match and I think it'd be reasonable to call Dibiase a technical wrestler in it. Stalling to begin and a fiery babyface assault with punches/stomps after that, but then he uses armwork (not wildly varied but interesting enough) to keep Patterson in the ring after he takes a powder, and he capitalizes on a corner posting with a couple of big abdominal stretches. Yes, there were slams/dropkicks, etc, and nothing was brilliant or anything, but I don't think it'd be unreasonable to call him 79 babyface WWF Ted technical from that match. I'll watch the other one later.

I love Gorilla but he was a cynical snark.

We're a little busy here, gramps. We're having a serious internet argument almost solely about semantics.

"A running team" in football used to be the old three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust, grind-it-out, Woody Hayes offense--passing only when necessary. Now, particularly in the NFL, you're a "running team" if you rush on 50% of your plays. These things can happen. This is a performance art not a sport. Is this sort of how Nickelback became metal or something? My view is in that in pro wrestling perception is reality. DiBiase in kayfabe terms was a technician--so that's what he is. Then what he does should be what a technician does. Barring some great revelation, a technician is someone who does a few big suplexes (vertical, belly to back, gutwrench) with fairly good execution. Has a couple of other power impact moves (power slam, pile driver, neckbreaker). Has a hold for a finisher. A lot of stomps, etc. And has a bitching fist drop. I'm glad we figured out what a technician does. I'll watch those Patterson matches tomorrow and then we can move on.