Matt D
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Everything posted by Matt D
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So. high praise doesn't even begin to cover this. I've seen 0, nada, zilch, ajw. I kind of want to see all of this stuff, but I'd forever be worried that I was missing nuance and context due to the language barrier. -
To me, none of that matters. They built it up for YEARS as death. That's what matters. I don't care if his finisher was blowing someone over really hard like the big bad wolf. If they built it up properly then it works for me. Wrestling is fake.
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Warrior is a guy who benefits from our shifting perceptions, I think. he could follow instruction. He could follow along with simple stories. In 2012, his stock is raised far more than it would be in 2002. He's still not great or anything but there are plenty of guys who bring a lot less to the table. That he was so highly produced is actually the thing he has going for him the most.
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[1993-01-09-WWF-Boston, MA] Ric Flair vs Bret Hart (60-Minute Iron Man)
Matt D replied to Loss's topic in January 1993
And do we just let that go or what? -
It's fun and I was really glad when it turned up but it's still sort of slight compared to the other things mentioned. But the big thing with me (again) was that I had no use for Demolition as a kid. By the time I started watching they were Smash and Crush and past Sting and Barry Windham as a kid I hated anyone over 250 lbs, really. I was a scrawny kid and only wanted to see little guys.
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Aw, c'mon, considering Andre's immobility the MSG Colossal Connection match is great! And the entire Twin Towers series is really good too. I've seen four house show matches between them and I'd recommend all of them. I think someone on the board actually complained that Demos were selling TOO much in one, like they WANTED the heel in peril formula for some weird reason. I won't defend the Powers of Pain matches much. They're slight. But the Twin Towers matches and the Colossal Connection match are better than any of the Strike Force one. They're better than Summerslam 90 too.
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If anyone does rewatch, I'd be curious to hear thoughts. I kind of want to rewatch Punk vs Cena from last year too. I have a hard time figuring out what a better Punk match would look like than this, but that's where I'd start looking.
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There was a GREAT kid with a Sheamus sign at one point too.
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I kind of want reluctant Show/Otunga as tag team champs.
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I just noticed it way more than usual. Maybe because I was watching more closely or something. No idea. I'm going to watch it again tomorrow which I always do with matches like this. I don't think his selling was bad, I just thought there was a lot of signature offense that involved leaping/kicking/using the knee/et after the leg work. Again it's not a match killer, but it's the reason on first watch I have it a bit lower than the top two matches from the last ppv I think part of it was self aware, though. It was a story element. In part, it's why Punk went for the leg in the first place. But more importantly, the dropping of the kneepad was a huge moment. Just like the charging knees to the ribs relatively late in the match. It was a self-aware escalation despite the risk. It was a "high risk decision." I'm not mixed up on which leg that was, am I? I wouldn't put that past myself. I'd really have to see both this and Bryan/Sheamus again. I loved them both too.
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I think the leg selling was done pretty well, myself. There were little things, like him getting up to the top too quickly and then selling AFTER the dropkick, which if we're going to compare it against top notch stuff matters, but i don't think there was a point where he forgot to sell it either before or after a move. It was always on his mind and never dropped or tossed aside. But yeah, he always remembered either before or after, never always before AND after. There's so much stuff in this match to like I'd have to rewatch it a few times.
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Fucking awesome. The ONLY naysaying I have at all, the ONLY is that we saw SO much in the way of calling spots. They were talking to each other like crazy and the camera did a terrible job of hiding it. But there was so much awesome, the figure four attempts, and then the SNAP dragon whip into it. One of my favorite things in wrestling is setting up move attempts that pay off later and there was just so much here, SO much. But it wasn't cutesy. And there was heaps of story and they sold things and everything had meaning and weight to it. God that was awesome.
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Honestly, the RF guys are sort of the best of most evils. I'd rather have a complete chronological rundown than spending two hours on three stories. It'd be one thing if we heard a bunch of stuff by most of the guys interviewed, but if you have one shot at John Nord, I know what I'd prefer. To cover as much ground as possible, even if you don't get as much detail as you'd want on anything. What bugs me more are the "key" questions, like asking everyone in the world about the Von Erichs and how fucked up they were.
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[1993-01-09-WWF-Boston, MA] Ric Flair vs Bret Hart (60-Minute Iron Man)
Matt D replied to Loss's topic in January 1993
Honest question: Is it too much to expect, in a match like this, that twenty minutes of armwork by Flair (which was great by the way. It's amazing how entertaining he can make working a hold; that might be the very best thing he does) should mean something to the rest of the match? -
I really do love the York Foundation.
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I'm always glad for people to reevaluate Demolition. http://board.deathvalleydriver.com/index.p...p;hl=demolition or http://www.thehistoryofwwe.com/demolitionproject.htm respectively. And remember, the key is structure: when they gave, when they didn't give, how hot tags never came easy, and how yes, they generally break the wwf heel-in-peril dynamic.
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1990 is not a great year for them, in ring, unfortunately, mainly due to a dearth of matches on tape and the addition of Adams. There's a really solid Colossal Connection match but it's right around Christmas 89, not into 90. I find Summerslam 90 way overrated, but part of that is because it's a Harts match, not a Demolition match (no Eadie). The 88 Summerslam match is a much more interesting hybrid of the two teams' styles. There just isn't a ton of good footage in 90. Like I said, all of those Hart matches just didn't happen on MSG cards. In January/Feb when they were feuding with Andre/Haku, they weren't on the MSG shows. In March, there's a pretty lackluster Orient Express match as the OX had just debuted and were a little too protected for it to work right. The Smash/Crush Rockers match is okay but it's a pale shadow of the 88 match. The best of the bunch MSG wise is the 6 Man with LOD + Warrior which is at least a novelty. There's really next to nothing in 90 relative to the 3 years beforehand. Smash/Crush is HUGELY different than Ax/Smash. Eadie brought the structure. Crush had presence and a couple of big power moves that SOME people probably think Demolition was lacking, but they lose so much without Eadie. Also, i didn't like EITHER the LOD or Demolition as a kid, but later on I watched a bunch of Demos matches and they played to a lot of of what I liked at that point. I even wrote about it.
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They were wrestling the Harts to Double DQs on House Shows as early as April 21 (With Mania happening 20 days earlier), though they also wrestled the Bolsheviks on the Superstars that aired that day and were total, over faces. Unless there's a fancam out there, we don't have any of those Pre-Summerslam matches. On SNME that aired 4/28, the Harts challenged them and they interfered in the Harts vs Rockers match, which was the beginning of it, though they were still quite over as faces on the 5/19 Superstars, including a fairly sympathetic promo about the Harts. Graham has first appearance of "BA" on house shows on June 1, so that must be when Ax's health scare happened, abouts. On TV Crush debuted on the 6/23 Superstars. Still kids in the crowd waving Demolition figures. Super quick squash. But this put a spin on things immediately. On the 7/7 superstars, Vince went out of his way to show that the fans were giving Demos a thumbs down and he portrayed them as unfair and running scared. Their promo on the Harts was completely heelish. On the 7/14 Superstars, on the Brother Love Show, Demolition jumps the Harts 3 on 2 and that's the clincher.
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Is it true that Solie had a hissy fit over Poffo being in?
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It was a big joke on Dusty but he was also a drawing heel in a big program.
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Dream Machine is what you're looking for.
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It was originally sort of parody in ECW though. He was there with Lou E Dangerously as the New Dangerous Alliance. It was more tongue in cheek than the New Fabulous Ones which were meant to be a draw. Granted, he might have been using the gimmick before that, I don't know. Also, I was watching the youtube Memphis Rockers stuff and how did no one ever tell me the Nasty Boys started off with facepaint. In the pantheon of Hawk and Animal take offs, they are less the Road Warrior and more The Warriors.
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The thing with CW was that it was self aware. It knew what it was doing. It wasn't like everyone using the facepaint after the road warriors. It was a wink wink thing. and yeah, he was still pretty good as late as 2009. Corporal Kirchner is someone who I see as more along the lines of what this note would be about.
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60% of the time all Raw has going for it is that it's live.
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There are a few Bret/Perfect vs Luger/Razor matches in 93, but none of the former.